Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[chilango]

I just chafe against the hypocrisy of focusing on parks (living in an inner city terrace I'll be in much closer proximity to my neighbours if we're stuck using only our backyards for the foreseeable) when much more obvious vectors of infection such as factory and supermarket work remain unpoliced. Let's criminalise making people work without social distancing and PPE. But stopping people having a walk doesn't affect profits.

Yep. A quick play with the tape measure suggests that if I sit the middle of my small back garden there's a good chance I'll be sat within 2m of my neighbours on both sides.

Whereas when I've walked a few hundred metres to the local park I've managed to keep at least 10 metres away from anyone else at any point. Usually more.

But, yeah, I'm to blame for killing thousands of people's grandmas.

Moralistic messages won't work if they fly in the face of people's lived experience.

 

[Favelado]

There have been significant incidents of social unrest in the South Of italy according to the Observer,

The 2,000 arrests here in Spain, I think I'd be right in saying, happened early on. There is very strong compliance with the lockdown now.

 

[Favelado]

Please note my edit.
I’m not talking about my own situation, I’m addressing treelover’s question of how or why it might be more of a challenge for others.
Also note I am not advocating that people flout the lockdown. I’m addressing the fact that it puts pressure on people in different ways depending on their circumstances.

But again, in Hong Kong, Spain, and Italy most people will be in tiny flats with no communal garden. This is the default for most people in lockdown. The fact that a lot of British people have gardens is lucky rather than the norm

 

[B.I.G]

Please note my edit.
I’m not talking about my own situation, I’m addressing treelover’s question of how or why it might be more of a challenge for others.
Also note I am not advocating that people flout the lockdown. I’m addressing the fact that it puts pressure on people in different ways depending on their circumstances.

You seem quite reasonable. But none of it matters. All leaving the house should be restricted to a minimum. Their personal circumstances are irrelevant.

 

[danny la rouge]

I just chafe against the hypocrisy of focusing on parks (living in an inner city terrace I'll be in much closer proximity to my neighbours if we're stuck using only our backyards for the foreseeable) when much more obvious vectors of infection such as factory and supermarket work remain unpoliced. Let's criminalise making people work without social distancing and PPE. But stopping people having a walk doesn't affect profits.

Exactly. I have no garden. I walk to the park and then in it. I have absolutely no problem with somebody, having got there, then lying down and sunbathing if it’s not too crowded. If they’re keeping their distance from others, where’s the harm in that? If they live around here they live in a flat.

But go to work and cram into a tiny space. Yeah, that’s “essential”.

 

[editor]

There's an interesting comparison of the different measures taken across Europe here: Europe’s coronavirus lockdown measures compared

Assuming it's correct only Spain has banned exercise completely, and even then it seems some groups are exempt.

Interesting comparison

 

[chilango]

Luxury flats still being built.

People in big expensive detached houses still getting their gardeners in and builders working on extensions.

 

[treelover]

Yeah. I’m sorry for having a rant really. But I’m having a bit of a spin out this morning. Nothing serious, just frustration that the advice conflicts with the reality. I’d love to rely on delivery services. But I can’t. Which means braving a shop where other people simply just will enter your two meter exclusion zone. Because it’s incredibly difficult to change a lifetime of experience of crowded milling.

The mutual aid groups, age uk, sorry Danny, , are alsos providing food and essentials parcels, I've had a fair few.

Oh, and if you are on the Gov't register Tesco Online will be contacting you, onlive services have been atrocious, a real wake up call.

 

[elbows]

Interesting comparison

Oh that reminds me to say dont pay too much attention to the version that measures the number of days since the first reported death.

Because, for example, it turns out that the first UK recorded death that was announced on March 5th, actually happened on February 28th.

Six coronavirus patients died in UK in February - days before ...www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk › News › UK News › Coronavirus

 

[maomao]

Obviously the number of people dying is inversely correlated to how small your home is. If you live in a room 2m square. Stay in it.

How big is your home? Garden y/n?

 

[B.I.G]

How big is your home? Garden y/n?

I Share a two bedroom flat in Zone 2 peckham with my flatmate from a private landlord I have no connection with and earn 35k. How big do you reckon it is?

No garden.

 

[maomao]

I Share a two bedroom flat in Zone 2 peckham with my flatmate from a private landlord I have no connection with and earn 35k. How big do you reckon it is?

No garden.

More than 2m x 2m. Hope you're getting enough exercise.

 

[Favelado]

I'm not getting enough exercise. It doesn't matter this month.

 

[elbows]

 

[B.I.G]

More than 2m x 2m. Hope you're getting enough exercise.

I dont do exercise. But say I did everyday. Would it matter if I didnt for 3 months. What do people do when they cant because they are ill. They wont be exercising when they are in intensive care with corona virus.

 

[B.I.G]

I dont do exercise. But say I did everyday. Would it matter if I didnt for 3 months. What do people do when they cant because they are ill. They wont be exercising when they are in intensive care with corona virus.

I'm not getting enough exercise. It doesn't matter this month.

If it was ebola. People wouldnt be jogging would they? its just others that will die so they dont care.

 

[Plumdaff]

I'm not getting enough exercise. It doesn't matter this month.

My point is not that I'm unwilling to stay in, but that the state, at least here in the UK, is focusing on individual behaviour that is unlikely to flatten the curve while not taking action against employers and to support the self employed that could really help. And it's because of politics. That's what annoys me.

 

[Leighsw2]

How about mandatory face masks in public? There's an emerging view that if we adopt this, it might allow a loosening of some of the lockdown elements and make social distancing in places like shops more effective? Seems to have worked in S Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

 

[Favelado]

My point is not that I'm unwilling to stay in, but that the state, at least here in the UK, is focusing on individual behaviour that is unlikely to flatten the curve much while not taking action against employers and to support the self employed that could really help. And it's because of politics. That's what annoys me.

Okay. The government should do that too. Individual behaviour makes a massive difference too though.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You weren't threatening the shoot the government though.

I think wanting to see the government swinging from lampposts can be taken as a given.

 

[Favelado]

How about mandatory face masks in public? There's an emerging view that if we adopt this, it might allow a loosening of some of the lockdown elements and make social distancing in places like shops more effective? Seems to have worked in S Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Supply issues. Also, you need to be at the point where you're ready to do that. The U.K. needs to get over its peak first. As tight as possible - and then ease up.

 

[Plumdaff]

Okay. The government should do that too. Individual behaviour makes a massive difference too though.

The absolutely vast majority of people are adhering to social distancing. Criminalising someone for sitting on a bench in an empty park in the sunshine helps no one, especially when tomorrow we're telling him he has to go work on a construction site with 50 people to a sink.

 

[treelover]

Has it occurred to you that many others don’t have a communal garden to go to.
That the square foot area people live in might be smaller. walls thinner. windows smaller.
That the number of people that area is shared with makes a huge difference.

Sorry this probably comes off as overly harsh but consider that my neighbours in a tower block only last year got rehoused from a one bedroom flat, family of 4. After 7 years. No communal gardens.

tbh, i don't mean people who have fuck all living in constrained locations in urban areas, i am talking about the middle class affluent nr me, who are still getting in cars with their bikes, who have gardens, balconies, etc.

 

[HalloweenJack]

Does this mean if I jog to the shops, I will be arrested for exercising rather than making a food trip?
Therefore a maximum speed for pedestrian movement has to be instituted.
Or, all trips to the supermarket must be accompanied with a large and visible branded shopping trolley or bag.
Any signs of sweat or aerobic fitness will be punishable by fines.

And shopping must be under 5lb in weight, as this is the threshold at which it contributes to muscle toning,
which can be construed as exercise.

 

[Favelado]

The absolutely vast majority of people are adhering to social distancing. Criminalising someone for sitting on a bench in an empty park in the sunshine helps no one.

It helps the people who don't die of Covid-19 from the accidental infection caused by people passing on the way to the park. You can't do this social distancing thing without it going wrong quite often.

I'm so surprised at people's attitudes. Sorry for repetition. Even here. What a shame.

 

[treelover]

tbh, i don't
mean people who have fuck all living in contrained locations in urban areas, i am talking about the middle class affluent nr me, who are still getting in cars with their bikes, who have gardens, balaconies, etc.

Oh, and i have been in the garden twice, in 14 days, i can't do exercise with my condition.

 

[elbows]

 

[Cid]

I dont do exercise. But say I did everyday. Would it matter if I didnt for 3 months. What do people do when they cant because they are ill. They wont be exercising when they are in intensive care with corona virus.

42k under 75s died from heart disease in 2017. More than 3 million with type II diabetes. Estimates for undiagnosed type 2 diabetes at 950k. 5 million with high blood pressure. 28% obesity. Those are obvious metrics directly related to lack of exercise... there are others of course.

I don’t really have a problem with lockdown. And I can see the argument that light lockdowns are just harder to enforce. But, as many have noted on this thread, transmission just by being outdoors doesn’t really have a lot behind it. And we still have many companies open, we still have supermarket workers in close proximity. It needs a consistent, carefully guided approach. If we’re going to tell people not to go outdoors, probably don’t also tell them they have to go to work.

 

[B.I.G]

42k under 75s died from heart disease in 2017. More than 3 million with type II diabetes. Estimates for undiagnosed type 2 diabetes at 950k. 5 million with high blood pressure. 28% obesity. Those are obvious metrics directly related to lack of exercise... there are others of course.

I don’t really have a problem with lockdown. And I can see the argument that light lockdowns are just harder to enforce. But, as many have noted on this thread, transmission just by being outdoors doesn’t really have a lot behind it. And we still have many companies open, we still have supermarket workers in close proximity. It needs a consistent, carefully guided approach. If we’re going to tell people not to go outdoors, probably don’t also tell them they have to go to work.

Good irrelevant stats. How much heart disease or diabetes killed other people?

Like I said if it was ebola. You’d be hiding away.

 

[maomao]

I dont do exercise. But say I did everyday. Would it matter if I didnt for 3 months. What do people do when they cant because they are ill. They wont be exercising when they are in intensive care with corona virus.

People who don't exercise die younger.