Commie Bastards have one more success in Nepal!

[JoePolitix]

Khmere Rouge Logic

I agree they have the largest following in the countryside but the vast majority of people do live there.

But they also have a large union membership in the The All Nepal Federation of Trade Unions...

"The federation has made a series of demands, including information about its detained members and a probe into the killing of others. It has accused businesses of backing the government and exploiting labourers - allegations business leaders deny. The government last month pledged to look into the cases of those who had allegedly disappeared while in custody. It has remained silent on other rebel demands."

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11523

So it is inacurrate to portray the maoist movement as alienating the urban proletariat with "their dogmatic Staliniod politics"

Yeah, one just wonders what sort of ‘trade union’ puts forward the solution of fighting exploitation in the workplace by advocating that the company closes down and the labours leave and find alternative jobs! The union representing the workers of the Surya Nepal company that was targeted by the Maoists had this to say

Nepal Independent Workers Union "The news publicized by ANFTU through different newspapers and FM radios to indefinitely close down Surya Nepal from August 17, has seriously drawn our attention ...At a time when Nepali youths are compelled to go abroad for employment due to the widespread poverty and lack of job opportunities in the country, it was illogical by all accounts to threaten a company that provides direct employment to 500 plus workers and indirect employment to thousands of others",

In a press release issued on August 9, the Union has also requested human rights activists, journalists, civil society and other rights organizations to help create a situation wherein workers can work freely without having to face any kind of fear.

http://www.nepalnews.com.np/archive/2004/aug/arc_aug04_17.htm#8

It’s clear that the ANFTU is simply a front organisation for the Maoists and isn’t part of the serious organised labour movement in Nepal. I don't believe for a second it has a large membership, nothing like the other mass union federations I have mentioned anyway.

 

[blazzers]

All of that stuff is fine - already acknowledged by many above that the Maoists feed on real grievances.

BUT, how is the ongoing violence between the Maoists and the police/army (and both DO kill innocent people, as I know first hand from my wife's relatives) going to improve the lot of the average Nepali? And given that you've said above that 10% of the population are untouchables (a quick search says 10-20%, depending on exact definitions), are the Maoists representing the majority, given that the total of Brahmin and Chettri (top two castes) is actually more than that (about 30%)? Painting these guys as the representatives of the suppressed majority is simplistic. Oh, and I love your reference to the UML communists as being controlled by upper castes. I'm seriously beginning to doubt your credentials to comment on this subject mate - Prachanda, Baburam Bhattarai and Ram Thapa (top three Maoists) are all, you guessed it, upper caste. Oops. Cynics might suggest that having failed to get a share of the spoils in the democratic goldrush in the early nineties, Baburam (interesting history this guy - hardly your classic proletarian hero, look him up if you're interested) and co decided to cash in by other means - selling a cause to those crying out for one (as your commentator above says - any cause would have done for the desperate poor) and then using the blood of their footsoldiers to take over the country. Maybe that's being TOO cynical as things stand, but there's little doubt in my mind that if the Maoists DID take over the country, there'd be a lot of bloodletting and score-settling, followed by bling all round for the Maoist hierarchy. How that's better than what Nepal has at the moment is difficult to understand - it'd be 'Meet the new boss, same as the old boss' in my view. Oh yeah, and then the Indians would invade...

 

[JoePolitix]

The CPN-UML is not Maoist the clue is in the name UML 'Unified-Marxist-Leninist'. Which is run by upper caste Nepalis.

O.K fair enough CPN-UML are Stalinite rather than Maoid but that's hardly justification for threatening to bump off one of their elected union officials is it?

I'm sure the CPN-UML leadership is dominated by members of the upper caste, most revolutionary groups have tended to be lead by intellectuals and members of the middle class. I understand comrade Prachanda of the CPN(M) a university-educated individual from an upper caste family.

 

[DrRingDing]

HIMSEN NAGAR, Nepal — His former neighbors describe him as "kindhearted" and "generous." His junior high teacher changed his name to "Lotus Flower" because he was so gentle and handsome. His father still shows off pictures of him as a grown man tenderly placing his hand on his mother's forehead as she lay dying of leukemia.

"It was his habit to make people smile," said his father, Mukti Ram Dahal, in a rare interview with a foreign journalist. "He used to do it with everybody."

But to the rest of Nepal and to the outside world, the man now known by the nom de guerre Prachanda, or "the fierce one," is the leader of a violent Maoist insurgency that has claimed more than 7,000 lives since 1996 in this mountain kingdom that sits as a buffer between India and China.

The United States has grown so concerned that it is providing $17 million in military equipment and sending American soldiers to train Nepal's army, a move that has Chinese officials worried about American meddling in their backyard.

A post-Mao, quasi-capitalist Beijing disowns the rebels and accuses them of "usurping the name of the leader of the Chinese people." Indian officials, meanwhile, fear a rising tide of refugees and what a Maoist victory could do to re-energize sputtering insurgencies in their own country.

The insurgents, who call themselves the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), modeled after Peru's own Maoist Shining Path guerrillas, have seized control of 40 percent of Nepal and paralyzed its economy and political system.

Their success has been led by Prachanda, 48, who has managed to deepen the support for his movement by portraying himself as a Nepalese Robin Hood facing down corrupt and ineffective governments.

Brilliant and charismatic to his followers, fanatical and opportunistic to his enemies, Prachanda, the son of a poor but upper-caste farmer, demands the eradication of chronic rural poverty and abolition of Nepal's constitutional monarchy, which he calls a "eunuch parliamentary monarchy." His war has exposed Nepal's vast inequalities, self-interested elite and, to the surprise of many longtime Western residents, potential for savagery.

http://www.asiaamerica.org/SouthAsia.html

So although he carried an upper caste name he was poor, not disimilar to Che Guevara apart from Prachanda was poorer.

I suppose you think Che's a hypocritical cunt too.

 

[JoePolitix]

http://www.asiaamerica.org/SouthAsia.html

So although he carried an upper caste name he was poor, not disimilar to Che Guevara apart from Prachanda was poorer.

I suppose you think Che's a hypocritical cunt too.

No not at all. I'm not at all bothered about comrade Prachanda's socio-economic background but I do dislike his anti-working class politics.

 

[revol68]

Che was amiddle class little fuckwit who thought that if only the working class would listen to him and his mates they would be free. His politics were crude stalinism and his military tactics only served to inspire a multitude of shit two bit marxist leninist guerilla groups which further tarnished the name of communism.

Perhaps you should look into the role Che played in the suppression of the anarcho synidcalist movement in Cuba.

 

[DrRingDing]

Che was amiddle class little fuckwit.

*scribbles furiously in files*

 

[blazzers]

So is there actually any difference between the Maoists and the mainstream communists, in terms of the background of the leadership, given that Bhattarai is also a brahmin, has a doctorate in civil engineering, and was a well-known architect of state buildings before the whole Maoist thing kicked off? In other words, was your attack on the UML for its upper caste leadership somewhat bizarre or not?

Not defending the UML in particular, but for you to pretend the Maoists are genuine peasant-led revolutionaries is plainly shite on stilts.

The other guy I mentioned above - Ram Thapa, leader of the military wing of the Maoists - is also upper caste, being a chhetri (warrior caste).

Still waiting for anything from you on exactly how a Maoist controlled Nepal would be better than the status quo. The evidence you've used so far seems to suggest a Maoist Nepal would be pretty similar to Burma - controlled by a bunch of crackpots who force the population into slave labour.

Why do I care so much - well, as I've pointed out, I do have personal ties to the place, so ideological blustering on the subject of Nepal from either side of the spectrum (in support of the King or the Maoists) tends to wind me up. Colonialism (we know what's best for them) is what it is - either by funding the King and the army as western governments do, or contrarian support for the Maoists from western lefties. Strangely reminiscent of Chomsky and the Khmer Rouge (though he, as you'll presumably admit, is a better arguer than you).

 

[revol68]

chomsky never defended the khmer rogue.

 

[Ryazan]

Che was amiddle class little fuckwit who thought that if only the working class would listen to him and his mates they would be free. His politics were crude stalinism and his military tactics only served to inspire a multitude of shit two bit marxist leninist guerilla groups which further tarnished the name of communism.

Perhaps you should look into the role Che played in the suppression of the anarcho synidcalist movement in Cuba.

Bout time someone metnioned Cuba and Stalinism.

 

[blazzers]

At the risk of a sidetrack...please go ahead and defend Chomsky re: his support of the Khmer Rouge.

I'm not against the guy per se, since he's pretty much bang on about western imperialism, but my impression has always been that he screwed up on the KR - happy to hear different.

 

[JoePolitix]

At the risk of a sidetrack...please go ahead and defend Chomsky re: his support of the Khmer Rouge.

I'm not against the guy per se, since he's pretty much bang on about western imperialism, but my impression has always been that he screwed up on the KR - happy to hear different.

Yup, it does seem that Prof Chomsky initially fucked up on the Cambodian Holocaust:

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/chombookrev.htm

 

[revol68]

thats hardly a fucking defence of the Khmer Rogue is it?

And i've read a good few essays of Chomskys on Cambodia were it is clear he has no intentions of being an apologist for the Khmer Rogue but rather is interested in the western medias representation of it compared to equally unsavoury regimes.

Now it could be argued that the tone of his argument is a bit wishy, but I think he has made his position clear in numerous other writings.

What next the old shite about Chomsky the Holocaust denier?

 

[DrRingDing]

In other news...

The King has now tightened even further the restrictions on broadcast so that only the states radio station can broadcast their version of the news..

Criticism of the king and independent reporting about the activities of anti-monarchy Maoist rebels have already been banned in the kingdom since Gyanendra took over on Feb. 1, fired the government, detained politicians and suspended civil rights.

The new press ordinance has a provision to fine up to Rs. 500,000 and imprison upto one year the publisher and editor for publishing news items which are banned by the government or for criticizing the Royal family.

Shocking.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1516290,000500020003.htm

 

[DrRingDing]

....and the US is pressuring Nepal to back it for changing the UN in it's favour.

http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2005/oct/oct13/news03.php


No doubt the suport of Nepal will gain the king some military hardware and special forces from uncle sam to knock any dissenters.

 

[lewislewis]

I'm presuming the Maoists wish to abolish the caste system?

 

[DrRingDing]

I'm presuming the Maoists wish to abolish the caste system?

You are presuming correct.

 

[Macabre]

The King has now tightened even further the restrictions on broadcast so that only the states radio station can broadcast their version of the news..

Yeah, because you wouldnt find a restriction of the press in a communist country would you?

Your arguments dont go beyond the royalists being a bigger bunch of bastards than the Moaists (and not by much) and a hard line, blinkered loyalty to left wing politics.

 

[DrRingDing]

Macabre I seriously reccomend you go off and read some info on the CPN(maoists) and the politcal makeup of Nepal before spouting ignorant tripe like the above.

The maoists are only demanding the most basic things that we hold dear, here in Blighty.

Saying the maoists are only slightly better than the king is fucking distgusting, arrogant fiction.

 

[Ryazan]

Shut up with your whimsical ill-informed wank.

 

[Macabre]

Macabre I seriously reccomend you go off and read some info on the CPN(maoists) and the politcal makeup of Nepal before spouting ignorant tripe like the above.

The maoists are only demanding the most basic things that we hold dear, here in Blighty.

Saying the maoists are only slightly better than the king is fucking distgusting, arrogant fiction.

I'd seriously recoment you go off to Nepal and see for yourself the bullshit hypocrasy of the CPN instead of sitting all safe at home being a keyboard warrior, reading propoganda, telling people how a country youve never been to or now anything substancial about should be run.

The Maoist dont give a shit about giving the people what we hold dear, they just want the power for themsleves because the toffs who run the CPN didnt get what they wanted under the king.

I'll say what I bloody well like having been there, spoken to many Nepalis and the Amnesty Int. head for the country rather than reading websites ffs. If you want fucking distgusting, arrogant fiction read the CPN manifesto

e2a: we're still waiting for these peer reviewed sources of yours.

 

[fishfingerer]

I'd seriously recoment you go off to Nepal and see for yourself the bullshit hypocrasy of the CPN instead of sitting all safe at home being a keyboard warrior, reading propoganda, telling people how a country youve never been to or now anything substancial about should be run.

Fuck off and take your cheap holidays in other people's misery with you you patronising yuppie cunt backpacker cunt?

 

[revol68]

well he might have had a holiday in other peoples misery but atleast he isn't have a substitutionist radical wank over their misery.

 

[fishfingerer]

Yeah everyone's as bad as everyone else. That's what the propaganda of the liberal twat boils down to.

 

[revol68]

cept im not a fucking liberal. The ease with which you jump to the defence of any two bit group with some nice rhetoric makes me think your nothing more than a posing radical liberal. Go engage your fucking brain before inflicting the world with your knee jerk reactionary wank!

 

[fishfingerer]

What a fucking cop out.

 

[revol68]

i have not made any cop out whatsoever, the reports i have heard from Nepal would seem to suggest that the Maoists are capable of oppressing the nepalese as much as King, the very fact they are Maoists should also be a warning to anyone with atleat an iota of historical knowledge, and their actions of forced labour would make it seem they are continuing a fine maoist tradition. Not only that but the Maoists have no influence amongst the urban working class, and their idea of a general strike is to plant car bombs in urban areas. The best the Maoists can offer is a grim stalemate with both them and the KIng further strengthening their grip over their respective populations under the rationale of war, any credible grass roots alternative will be crushed between the two sides and the people of nepal will continue to eek out an existance in poverty or emigrate to escape the war.

As such i don't feel happy cheering on the Maoists but would rather seek to find more info about other groups who offer a useful alternative, rather like my position on the bastard IRA.

 

[Ryazan]

What a fucking cop out.

Go over there and join the rebellion my friend. Instead of making romantic statements on an internet message board.

 

[Jessiedog]

As Macabre says, it really does seem to be a case of "blinded by ideoloigy".

Nobody on this thread is supporting the monarchy, but most (and all, it would seem, who have any regular contact with ordinary Nepalese,) are critical of the Maoists and rightly so.

It is blatantly obvious that neither side carry the will of the people and that the situation will only continue to deteriorate for the majority under the status quo. Neither side can "win". Nepal is in real danger of failing completely.

There is no evidence that a Maoist-lead government would deliver anything better to the people than could be delivered simply by downing arms. And, on a practical level, this is exactly what is required, and quickly, if people's suffering is to diminish.

Otherwise, if it ain't sorted, I guess it'll be a classic example of a country begging for "intervention" within a few years - and meanwhile, the people will continue to suffer.



Woof

 

[fishfingerer]

Go over there and join the rebellion my friend. Instead of making romantic statements on an internet message board.

No, I'll go on a 2 week backpacking holiday with my uni chums and after a sniff of raksi I'll shower the peasants with loose change which will eventually find its way into either the kings or the maoists coffers then I'll come back here and brag about it for months and make flaccid passive aggressive statements about how both sides are as bad as each other but really mean that the status quo should be maintained and then I'll finish my exams and join Nike as assistant to the director of sweatshop rape or something and be a cunt for the rest of my life.