Commie Bastards have one more success in Nepal!

[Brainaddict]

When are you off there anyway DOUF?

 

[DrRingDing]

oh doUsAfuckingFavour and try to understand the world is alot more complicated than your piss poor analysis. Perhaps you should begin by tryng to decipher how the people in Nepal fee about the issue.

How do you think it feels to be left with no hospitals, schools, transport to get to distant hospitals and no communication infrastructure?

You have to watch your children die from preventable diseases and if they live they have no education and you have no health care in your later years.

Sitting at home in comfort behind their computer dismissing this struggle because this class/caste war has become violent is as crass as it is right wing and liberal.

 

[revol68]

oh yeah cos the Maoists are th eonly ones struggling for a decent existance. Do you really see the world in such fucking black and white terms?

As for sitting at a computer making judgement, well exactly how is cheerleading a bunch of brutal moaists who seem to think a general strike is planting car bombs in urban centres any better than being a bit more cautious about who I give my imaginary solidarity to? Or do you live in Nepal or just do a wee bit of gun smuggling for them?

So for you it all comes down to support one bunch of murdering dogmatic fuckwits or the monarchists? Jesus one cna only wonder what position you'd take in regards to northern ireland.

 

[DrRingDing]

oh yeah cos the Maoists are th eonly ones struggling for a decent existance. Do you really see the world in such fucking black and white terms?

Change by democratic 'Guardian' friendly means was tried, it even went all the way having a socialist party win an election but it didn't mean fuck all as they were kicked out of parliment.

So 'revol68' as democrtic peaceful means of change have been exhausted how do you realistically think radical and positive socio-economic change can come about?

Ask the King and high castes nicely over a cuppa and biccy?

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe a march on the capital?

(You've actually gone backwards since you've been on here - and you were pretty bloody crude to begin with).

 

[Jessiedog]

Change by violent, revolutionary means was tried (for a decade), it even went all the way having over ten thousand peeps killed (the majority by the royalists), but it didn't mean fuck all as the poor people get fucked over doubly now - Royalists AND Maoists.

So 'revol68' as violent and revolutionary means of change have been exhausted (everyone pretty much agrees the "war" is unwinnable and it certainly no longer garners much suppport from the masses), how do you realistically think radical and positive socio-economic change can come about?

Ask the rebel commanders and their violent do-sayers nicely over a cuppa and biccy?

Methinks not too!

Now yer thinkin' out of the box DUAF



Woof

 

[JoePolitix]

Perhaps you should begin by tryng to decipher how the people in Nepal fee about the issue...".

Statement from the General Federation of Nepalese Trade Unions

http://www.gefont.org/press_release/release_jul19_05.htm

July 19, 2005

GEFONT condemns bombing in Reliance Spinning Mills

CPN(Maoist) has caused heavy damage & loss by bombing the Reliance Spinning Mills, which is the largest spinning mills of the country providing employment to thousands of workers. GEFONT Condemns this destructive behavious of maoists.


This act of maoists is against humane values which has pushed more than 10 thlousand peoples from families of workers to the street by explosion in the mill in a situation where country is in heavy unrest with fast declining employment opportunities. We are of the opinin - whoever is involved in such an inhumane & criminal activity should be punished.


We strongly demand for the guarrantee of employment to the workers who have now become unemployed as a result of irresponsible & destructive activity directly damaging the livelihood of the working people. We also ask the Maoists not to repeat such inhumane and terorrist activity in days to come.

Mukunda Neupane
Chairperson, GEFONT-Nepal

 

[blazzers]

This thread seems to be going nowhere, but I do wonder at statements made above regarding an elected socialist government. Is this referring to the Nepali Congress, or the mainstream communists? Either way, as I said before, neither of these was much more than a way for the relevant politicians and their mates to cash in.

Each day the news gets worse - see the story above about factories getting destroyed. Sure, these places pay peanuts, but when the alternative is unemployment or going overseas, I'm guessing the workers would take the factories (as the union says above).

This article today about people going overseas is interesting (though some of the facts seem a bit dubious - not sure that more than half the population are dalits, but anyway):

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GI20Df01.html

 

[DrRingDing]

(though some of the facts seem a bit dubious - not sure that more than half the population are dalits, but anyway):

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GI20Df01.html

Indeed it is bollocks, around and just over 10% of the country is considered 'untouchable'.

 

[DrRingDing]

Maybe a march on the capital?

Are you talking about a peaceful march or a violent one?

Or are you just mocking?

 

[DrRingDing]

(You've actually gone backwards since you've been on here - and you were pretty bloody crude to begin with).

You are too kind

Well lets just say the level of arguement on here has been of the "but commies are bad!! *stamps foot*" variety.

 

[DrRingDing]

Are you talking about a peaceful march or a violent one?

A peaceful march like what the Zapatistas did would be an utter disaster as their situations and demands are completely different as regards to the ruling elite.

A violent move on the city would most probably be a failiure as they are still a lightly armed guerrilla force.

 

[Macabre]

Well lets just say the level of arguement on here has been of the "but commies are bad!! *stamps foot*" variety.

No, the arguement has been the nepali maoists are just as bad as the monarchy with an explanation of first hand experiences and information from nepali people rather than questionable internet sources.

Im sure if the king forced the nepalis to do 2 weeks labour for the benifit of building the country as he saw fit you'd have a different opinion to it. From what i saw the maoists are just swapping the kings brainwashing for their own.

 

[DrRingDing]

No, the arguement has been the nepali maoists are just as bad as the monarchy with an explanation of first hand experiences and information from nepali people rather than questionable internet sources.

I disagree, what the king has proposed is a continuation of the current situation, where the majority of the population live without the very basics we hold dear.

The ruling castes are milking the country dry of all it's resources.

The CPN (Maoist) have set forth a forty point set of demands that will take the power and resources of the king and the ruling elite away and put it in the hands of the people.

I have seen no alternative on this thread from anybody who has derided the communists in Nepal on how to tackle the corruption and the inequality of this country.

 

[Macabre]

I disagree, what the king has proposed is a continuation of the current situation, where the majority of the population live without the very basics we hold dear.

The ruling castes are milking the country dry of all it's resources.

The CPN (Maoist) have set forth a forty point set of demands that will take the power and resources of the king and the ruling elite away and put it in the hands of the people.

I have seen no alternative on this thread from anybody who has derided the communists in Nepal on how to tackle the corruption and the inequality of this country.

No one saying the king isnt a bastard and that the caste system is fair, its far worse in Nepal than India, but just because the Maoists say they will change it doesnt mean they will make the country any better, especially when they have been just a corrupt and brutal as the king.

Saying the Nepali communists are assholes isnt the same as saying all of communism is shit, just this particular group. Its needless polarisation to say that just because we oppose them that we support the king, and just because they are an alternative to the king doesnt make them viable by default. Thereis no easy solution tothe problems of Nepal, but imo&e the solution isnt coming from the king or the maoists. May nepalis i talked to think the coutry should become part of India or China, prefarabley India as it shares more of the culture and they did a good job of taking in Sikkim.

 

[Bigdavalad]

A question for someone who actually knows a bit about this - how are the Maoists treating the families of Gurkhas in the areas they currently occupy? I'd imagine they might not be that popular with them (tools of the capitalists and all that), but are they being treated any different because a member of their family is a Gurkha? Got a few Gurkha mates, but I don't really want to ask them about it all, for obvious reasons.

 

[DrRingDing]

A question for someone who actually knows a bit about this - how are the Maoists treating the families of Gurkhas in the areas they currently occupy? I'd imagine they might not be that popular with them (tools of the capitalists and all that), but are they being treated any different because a member of their family is a Gurkha? Got a few Gurkha mates, but I don't really want to ask them about it all, for obvious reasons.

Reports have been that many ex-officers have been training the fighters.

 

[DrRingDing]

just because the Maoists say they will change it doesnt mean they will make the country any better, especially when they have been just a corrupt and brutal as the king.

From what well research papers I have been reading the royal army has been responsible for most of the murders.

In addition to that, the majority of the killings carried out by the maoist have been of police and army.

So where is your credible evidence that the maosits are as 'corrupt and brutal as the King'?

BTW don't bother with the neoliberal propaganda.

 

[Bigdavalad]

Reports have been that many ex-officers have been training the fighters.

Cheers

 

[JoePolitix]

I’ve just done a bit of googling and it turns out that none of the Nepalese Trade Union Federations (NTUC, GEFONT & DECONT), which have played a leading role in the urban opposition to the royalist coup, support the Maoists and their ‘peoples war’ which they regard as brutal and counterproductive.

In addition it seems the Maoists have issued a death threat to the president of the Nepal Teachers Union who happens to be a member of the maoist Communist Party of Nepal (Unified Marxist-Leninist):

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2005/1130/

And here lies the problem for the Maoists. Whilst they have a mass base among the peasantry and popularity in the countryside their dogmatic Staliniod politics, outlook and strategies effectively mean that they will only ever alienate the urban proletariat, a vital ally in the transformation of Nepalese society.

 

[DrRingDing]

In addition it seems the Maoists have issued a death threat to the president of the Nepal Teachers Union who happens to be a member of the maoist Communist Party of Nepal (Unified Marxist-Leninist):

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2005/1130/

The CPN-UML is not Maoist the clue is in the name UML 'Unified-Marxist-Leninist'. Which is run by upper caste Nepalis.

 

[DrRingDing]

And here lies the problem for the Maoists. Whilst they have a mass base among the peasantry and popularity in the countryside their dogmatic Staliniod politics, outlook and strategies effectively mean that they will only ever alienate the urban proletariat, a vital ally in the transformation of Nepalese society.

I agree they have the largest following in the countryside but the vast majority of people do live there.

But they also have a large union membership in the The All Nepal Federation of Trade Unions...

"The federation has made a series of demands, including information about its detained members and a probe into the killing of others. It has accused businesses of backing the government and exploiting labourers - allegations business leaders deny. The government last month pledged to look into the cases of those who had allegedly disappeared while in custody. It has remained silent on other rebel demands."

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11523


So it is inacurrate to portray the maoist movement as alienating the urban proletariat with "their dogmatic Staliniod politics"

 

[Macabre]

From what well research papers I have been reading the royal army has been responsible for most of the murders.

In addition to that, the majority of the killings carried out by the maoist have been of police and army.

So where is your credible evidence that the maosits are as 'corrupt and brutal as the King'?

BTW don't bother with the neoliberal propaganda.

woopdy doo, you've read some papers. All highly impartial and accurate im sure. The locals are more scared of the Maoists than the Military these days, with greater numbers seeking refuge in northern india since in the past few years. When I was in Darjeeling and Sikkim the place was full of Nepalis and when I asked them why they were in india more often than not they would say because of the Maoists, not once did I hear them say because of the King. Before I went I was at a talk with the Amnesty International leader for the area and he said the only reason they arent recommending people not to go there is because the people are so dependant of tourism and tourist generally get left alone, many NGOs including the peace corp have pulled out of the country because of the threats from Maoists. Having a gun pointed at me on a bus full of dozens of shit scared Nepalis, who whole heartedly thanked me for my presence after wards, and the the words of the many nepali people i talked with IMO are a thousand times more credable sources than any website you can pull up or paper you read.

No one is saying the military hasnt killed anyone, and whos killed more isnt the point at this stage. Its about whos practically applying a method for helping the nepali people, and right now the maoists dont fit that criteria.

BTW don't bother with the tyrannical regime propaganda.

 

[DrRingDing]

No one is saying the military hasnt killed anyone, and whos killed more isnt the point at this stage.

When you claim that the Maoists are as "corrupt and brutal as the king" you need to back it with more than supposed claims from your 5 week holiday.

...I went on holiday in the Himilayas for a few months a few years ago and met some Nepalis who were there for the work not because of persecution.

 

[DrRingDing]

woopdy doo, you've read some papers. All highly impartial and accurate im sure.

Written by respected peer reviewed academics who are verifiable unlike some random anonymous character on t'internet such as your good self.

 

[Macabre]

When you claim that the Maoists are as "corrupt and brutal as the king" you need to back it with more than supposed claims from your 5 week holiday.

...I went on holiday in the Himilayas for a few months a few years ago and met some Nepalis who were there for the work not because of persecution.

Economic migrants have always came into india from nepal, when I was there a few months ago it was more like refugees than the usuall off season workers.

Written by respected peer reviewed academics who are verifiable unlike some random anonymous character on t'internet such as your good self.

Kindly show your sources then. Like I said, its not about whos killed who but who will actually deliver their promise of a better future for the Nepali's.

 

[DrRingDing]

Like I said, its not about whos killed who but who will actually deliver their promise of a better future for the Nepali's.

Now it's you thats thinking like a stalinist!

 

[DrRingDing]

KATHMANDU, 16 Sep 2005 (IRIN) - Torture and ill-treatment were still systematically practiced in various detention centres in Nepal run by the police and the Royal Nepal Army (RNA), concluded Manfred Nowak, the Special Rapporteur on Torture of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, who ended a seven-day visit to the country on Friday.
"There was repeated and frank admission by senior and military officials that torture was acceptable in some instances," said Nowak, who was deeply concerned about the prevailing culture of impunity for those responsible.

Maoist rebels have been waging a nine-year rebellion against the state. Many civilians who have been arrested on suspicion of being Maoists have been severely tortured, according to hundreds of credible reports from human rights organisations.

Many were arrested and detained under the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Control & Punishment) Act (TADA), introduced in 2002. The act gives special powers to the authorities to arrest any suspect without a warrant.

The TADA was replaced by a new Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Control and Punishment) Ordinance (TADO) in 2004, which increased provision for detention without charge or trial for up to one year. Nowak remarked that such an act effectively provides the police and military with sweeping powers to detain suspects for preventive reasons.

During his visits to victims and detainees, Nowak was told that the methods of torture included beatings with bamboo poles and plastic pipes, kicking, electric shock to the ears, jumping on thighs and legs, as well as hanging detainees upside down and beating the feet.

An army official told Nowak during his interview at a barracks near Nepalganj, 500 km west of Nepal, that they often tortured prisoners to get them to admit they were Maoists.

http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=49115&SelectRegion=Asia&SelectCountry=NEPAL

Damn the UN and their 'tyrannical regime propaganda'

 

[revol68]

sorry but that UN report doesn't tell us anything we don't know.
I could paste up a fucking report about Saddam Hussein but it doesn't justify the US and Britains death campaign. LIkewise I could post up stuff about what loyalists have done but it hardly exonorates republican atrocities, does it?

 

[DrRingDing]

sorry but that UN report doesn't tell us anything we don't know.
I could paste up a fucking report about Saddam Hussein but it doesn't justify the US and Britains death campaign. LIkewise I could post up stuff about what loyalists have done but it hardly exonorates republican atrocities, does it?

But of course don't let the following statement from someone who has intimate, first hand experience of both the the maoists and the king get in the way of your diatribe.

Padma Ratna Tuladhar, a noted human-rights activist and mediator of last year’s government-Maoist peace talks, scoffs at such characterizations. “They are not terrorists. They have been fighting for a cause. But the government has virtually failed to address their problems in a right way.” Gautam agrees: “Given Nepal’s history, if the Maoists hadn’t emerged, somebody else would have.”

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/933.cfm