Combating hopelessness

[CH1]

Four more: (maybe 3 and a half)

Hara-kiri (honourable suicide):
Killing oneself in self-punishment and acknowledgement of personal failure

Passive-aggressive suicide: Killing oneself to hurt another who has wronged you.

Banishment suicide: Ejected from the tribe. There is nothing without the tribe. Death is inevitable soon anyhow.

Extinction-event suicide: Everyone is dead, the ecosystems have collapsed, there is nothing left to live for.

I guess Durkheim was a pioneer is studying this topic as a sociological construct (1898 I believe)
He might not be usual fare for Urban 75 as he was apparently red hot on religious and state symbolism
He had a particular fascination with things such as The Coronation holding "The Nation" together
and (in the case of the United States) Veteran Days.

So probably in the grand scheme of things Durkheim saw Suicide as a case where "things fall apart" whereas generally he was concerned with why they are glued together.
The second term was Weber and bureaucracy. I'm going to bed!

 

[8ball]

Some of the ones I posted above def fit at least partially into the ones you already posted.

 

[CH1]

Some of the ones I posted above def fit at least partially into the ones you already posted.

How about Yukio Mishima?
Anomie - a star novelist turned fsascist leader with nowhere else to go
Altruistic - saving his beloved Japan from western decadence
Egoistic - an isolated gay man driven to bodybuilding by a sense of inferiority
Fatalistic - had rigid views about Japanese "face" humilation etc

Seems to score a full house! Or am I wrong? Yukio Mishima - Wikipedia

 

[friendofdorothy]

Interesting though discussions of suicide in an intellectual way are. Coming to this thread and reading a that last couple of pages has been depressing as fuck.

Not combatting hopelessness for me.

 

[friendofdorothy]

If anybody feels hopeful about general state of the world , I’d appreciate hearing….

Yes please.

From childhood many of us were inundated from religion , fairy tales , Hollywood , pop songs , adverts etc with the hope that we were going to be saved/rescued by some “saviour” , which could take many forms - which the "romance industry" also exploits.

Much religion and/or politics are probably most responsible in indoctrinating a “blind faith” in following “leaders” in order to be “saved”.
And that can be utilised to placate people - both individually and collectively - to accept/tolerate suffering in life with promises of "salvation" in future and/or an "after-life.

Romantic fantasies of “perfect partners” promising “happy-ever-after”.
Political leaders promising material “abundance” if elected.
Happiness always just being around the corner.
Religious saviours promising eternal life-ever-after…

Yes most people are blind to how this is being done to them as 'thats just how things are'

Some of us aren't good at being followers

I wanted to write a "true believer" medication post - and my post-paranoid idea was that currently people are force-fed SSRI anti-depressants by GPs who are unable to secure access for their patients to "proper" mental health services.
...

The interesting thing about the above suicide graphs is this - is suicide a function of testosterone or other male hormones facilitating desperate reactions to feelings of despair?
Or are women protected by their social position in some way? [kids, family ties, filial obligations]

I leave the thought hanging.

There are male/ female differences in states of mental health and suicide - I don't know why, though I suspect different socialisation, hormones, social roles and expectations must all have something to do with it.

I wonder are there similar differences in political engagement? Or community engagement? In activism or political apathy?

 

[CH1]

I wonder are there similar differences in political engagement? Or community engagement? In activism or political apathy?

On several occasions as a student I went around the country to by-elections on Liberal battle buses etc.
This seemed to be a rather male activity - unless I had switched into cruise mode.
Possibly being a by-election campaigner is somewhat akin to being train spotter - another activity which seems to be favoured by men and boys.
Perhaps by-election mania and trainspotting are things which are "on the spectrum"?
Which leads to another old saw - that women and girls aren't autistic, only men and boys.

This much lauded BBC TV series (of 2) suggested that actually it is not true that autism is a male phenomenon however

BBC Two - Inside Our Autistic Minds, Series 1, Episode 1

Chris helps an autistic comedian connect with her mum and a non-speaking man find a voice.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ice-is-forming]

I feel hopeless, not just for me but my children & grandchildren & the world in general. This feeling is quite new for me, and I'm putting it down to a few things. Ive finally realised that my past actions and lack of foresight & understanding of consequences has caused my situation..and even though I would have empathy for someone else who'd lived my life, with the adhd, mental health and drug problems etc.. I can't seem to find empathy for myself, and if i could it'd make no practical difference.

I'm getting older, only a couple of decades left for me now. No hormones left and the drugs don't work.

The impacts of climate change are un-ignorable here in Australia.

The on going crisis of housing shortages everywhere and cost of living. I can't actually see a solution other than winning the lottery or robbing a bank. Neither of which are going to happen.

The threat of homelessness for me and a few my adult children is a fact, it's real. Medication won't make it go away. There's no way of reframing it, I can only distract myself with the day to day and try to be in the moment. But I feel powerless and paralysed most of the time atm.

It's like having the bottom part of Maslows triangle pulled out from under me, like a magic trick. I may have a good job, family and friends, live in a beautiful place, good physical health, be socially and politically active etc... In fact be so much better off than a lot of other people. But when you're housing security is threatened none of that seems to matter.

What makes it more difficult, is that the ongoing & now long term, stress & hyper-vigilance makes it so hard to try and think of solutions because I'm so overwhelmed and anxious, and only just hanging on. My executive functioning is just about okay for going through the day to day motions of work and meeting basic needs, and that's it.

I honestly can't see an end in sight. My anxiety is peak & Ive lost perspective. I'm doing my best to be in the moment and grateful.. but it's grinding me down fast. It throws shade over everything.

I thought life would get easier as I got older.. but it's going in the completely opposite direction rapidly.

How do I combat this hopelessness.

 

[ice-is-forming]

That felt good to write that down. Ive also got bad burn out atm, not that it changes anything about the situation, but it does make it really difficult to think of solutions

 

[friendofdorothy]

ice-is-forming that is a really good question with no easy answers. I like to give a more considered response when I've had more time to think carefully.

Meanwhile, I would say I have found the Big Feels Club newsletters personally helpful. Its a mental health project based in Australia.

hello@bigfeels.club

 

[friendofdorothy]

There's a really good podcast on the BBC called something like rental health will post a link when I next come across it.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Some extracts below from The Problem of Trauma Culture by Catherine Liu , which I think gives one explanation contributing to the prioritising of identities over class politics emanating from the individualisation of “trauma culture” in USA.
———————-
“ The focus on all forms of trauma except economic exploitation has helped to disguise the problem at the heart of neoliberalism...

Snip from a post on the ID politics thread. I didn't really go along with most of the idea of trauma theory but this but stood out for me.

I see people oppressed by our uncaring capitalist system being blamed for their own deprivation, their own poverty, unemployment, their own homelessness as if it's their own personal failure not to be rich not to have inherited some mansion. Characterised here in UK a few years ago by the heartless "strivers and skivers" idea from our useless Tory elite. It's an idea easily perpetuated by people born rich and given every advantage in life, oblivious to their own priveledge, unaware of their own random good luck in being born to rich parents.

Here a few years ago I demonstrated about some local mental health services been sited in the unemployment office. Yes a quick round of CBT under the watchful eye of the office with power to stop all your money will soon have you back in your right mind seeking employment.

Of course that's traumatic - it's putting people under unbearable pressure in a no win situation.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I feel hopeless, not just for me but my children & grandchildren & the world in general. This feeling is quite new for me, and I'm putting it down to a few things. Ive finally realised that my past actions and lack of foresight & understanding of consequences has caused my situation..and even though I would have empathy for someone else who'd lived my life, with the adhd, mental health and drug problems etc.. I can't seem to find empathy for myself, and if i could it'd make no practical difference.

I'm getting older, only a couple of decades left for me now. No hormones left and the drugs don't work.

The impacts of climate change are un-ignorable here in Australia.

The on going crisis of housing shortages everywhere and cost of living. I can't actually see a solution other than winning the lottery or robbing a bank. Neither of which are going to happen.

The threat of homelessness for me and a few my adult children is a fact, it's real. Medication won't make it go away. There's no way of reframing it, I can only distract myself with the day to day and try to be in the moment. But I feel powerless and paralysed most of the time atm.

It's like having the bottom part of Maslows triangle pulled out from under me, like a magic trick. I may have a good job, family and friends, live in a beautiful place, good physical health, be socially and politically active etc... In fact be so much better off than a lot of other people. But when you're housing security is threatened none of that seems to matter.

What makes it more difficult, is that the ongoing & now long term, stress & hyper-vigilance makes it so hard to try and think of solutions because I'm so overwhelmed and anxious, and only just hanging on. My executive functioning is just about okay for going through the day to day motions of work and meeting basic needs, and that's it.

I honestly can't see an end in sight. My anxiety is peak & Ive lost perspective. I'm doing my best to be in the moment and grateful.. but it's grinding me down fast. It throws shade over everything.

I thought life would get easier as I got older.. but it's going in the completely opposite direction rapidly.

How do I combat this hopelessness.

That's a tough one to answer.

All I can say is take all the support and comfort you can from having :

a good job, family and friends, live in a beautiful place, good physical health, be socially and politically active etc...

Lean on those around you when you can, take solice in their love an in their company.

In fact be so much better off than a lot of other people.

I know that knowing that really doesn't help.

But when you're housing security is threatened none of that seems to matter.

Security is so important to peace of mind. Till you have a plan to sort out some housing security for you and yours, mental peace of mind is just too difficult. I don't know what kind of practical problem you're facing or what kind of advice is available to you.

I honestly can't see an end in sight. My anxiety is peak & Ive lost perspective. I'm doing my best to be in the moment and grateful.. but it's grinding me down fast. It throws shade over everything.

It's so difficult to think clearly when anxious (I know) but you can't avoid anxiety with unsolved worries. All I can say is eat, and get as much rest and peace as you can, don't try to solve everything in one go. Try and think about it when rested. Seek help, take help when offered. Just do what you can.

How do I combat this hopelessness.

Wish I knew.

Hearing young activists helps me. XR here's message is it's not too late! act now.

 

[ice-is-forming]

Thank you Ive been lucky enough to do some project work with the Big Feels Club, and now that you've mentioned it I think I've fallen off their email list so I'll re-subscribe.
I remember watching a video about the psychosocial coercion that employment services are using. Id like to say I was shocked , but sadly I wasn't. It happens here too.

I hear you about the way our society blames individuals for their economic situations/trauma/ oppression. I recently heard someone say to stop using the term vulnerable about people, and to use the term targeted.. which was a light bulb moment.

For over 40 years I've been shouting about it. Starting with the anti-psychiatry movement in the late 70s, right up to today where I'm involved in a lot of social justice stuff around mental health and pwud. In fact all the trauma cos, I work/ advocate in suicide pre and post vention too. This probably doesn't help tbh. But I've finally got to a position where I can actually make systemic change at a state and federal level.

I was at a big conference lately , and yes! I did feel better seeing all the young activists. I'm also doing succession planning with young people accross the movements I'm involved with. It's what started me thinking about taking a step back now.

I started to contemplate that I could maybe change fields now, but it's honestly all I've ever done... Plus i feel too scared to make any big work changes because of the current housing situation

We have something like less than 0.1% rental availability here in Australia, everywhere. So the costs of any available have doubled or more . This all happened so quickly, I'm not an economist so don't really understand why, but something something covid and many years of right wing government policies. We've had Labor in for almost a year now.. but tbh they're a very right wing Labor.

Ive been looking at buying an old caravan or camper van( I was even looking at house boats, but realise I have no idea what I'd be doing) I'm not rich so it'd have to be very old, but I wondered if it'd help with my peace of mind. But now Ive got not 1 but 2 of my adult kids home with me, I'm not so sure. Plus another at housing risk. Those three kids all have some issues and are on disability support pension.. so that doesn't help.

I wasn't doing too bad until about a month ago, when my daughter had to move in with me. Then i got really triggered by that conference I mentioned ( human rights violations ) then I got a shitty covid. So I admit I'm not myself atm. But I'm doing my best to look after myself, but doing the moment by moment thing wears a bit thin.

I think having ADHD, and the paralysis & procrastination doesn't help.

Sorry to be so negative, but it has really helped that I've been able to write all this down. I can see that until I find a solution to my housing situation nothing is going to change, so that's where I'm going to put all my energy ( maybe plan that bank robbery )

X

 

[friendofdorothy]

Thank you Ive been lucky enough to do some project work with the Big Feels Club, and now that you've mentioned it I think I've fallen off their email list so I'll re-subscribe.
I remember watching a video about the psychosocial coercion that employment services are using. Id like to say I was shocked , but sadly I wasn't. It happens here too.

I hear you about the way our society blames individuals for their economic situations/trauma/ oppression. I recently heard someone say to stop using the term vulnerable about people, and to use the term targeted.. which was a light bulb moment.

For over 40 years I've been shouting about it. Starting with the anti-psychiatry movement in the late 70s, right up to today where I'm involved in a lot of social justice stuff around mental health and pwud. In fact all the trauma cos, I work/ advocate in suicide pre and post vention too. This probably doesn't help tbh. But I've finally got to a position where I can actually make systemic change at a state and federal level.

I was at a big conference lately , and yes! I did feel better seeing all the young activists. I'm also doing succession planning with young people accross the movements I'm involved with. It's what started me thinking about taking a step back now.

I started to contemplate that I could maybe change fields now, but it's honestly all I've ever done... Plus i feel too scared to make any big work changes because of the current housing situation

We have something like less than 0.1% rental availability here in Australia, everywhere. So the costs of any available have doubled or more . This all happened so quickly, I'm not an economist so don't really understand why, but something something covid and many years of right wing government policies. We've had Labor in for almost a year now.. but tbh they're a very right wing Labor.

Ive been looking at buying an old caravan or camper van( I was even looking at house boats, but realise I have no idea what I'd be doing) I'm not rich so it'd have to be very old, but I wondered if it'd help with my peace of mind. But now Ive got not 1 but 2 of my adult kids home with me, I'm not so sure. Plus another at housing risk. Those three kids all have some issues and are on disability support pension.. so that doesn't help.

I wasn't doing too bad until about a month ago, when my daughter had to move in with me. Then i got really triggered by that conference I mentioned ( human rights violations ) then I got a shitty covid. So I admit I'm not myself atm. But I'm doing my best to look after myself, but doing the moment by moment thing wears a bit thin.

I think having ADHD, and the paralysis & procrastination doesn't help.

Sorry to be so negative, but it has really helped that I've been able to write all this down. I can see that until I find a solution to my housing situation nothing is going to change, so that's where I'm going to put all my energy ( maybe plan that bank robbery )

X

Well done for being involved in making changes at state and federal level. Sounds like you have a lot of things on your plate and many practical issues to think about.

Without changing fields to something less traumatic, could you do a different role? Or change some of the things you? Or ask someone to do or help with particular tasks or project? Or simply take some leave or have a break?

Don't apologise for being negative. We don't have to be positive happy smiley people just for the benefit of others 100% of time.

You say writing this down has helped - would you be able to write down all about housing? How you feel and what the problems are + how you woul like it to be + ideas for change with pros and cons (like you just did re house boat idea) I find when I'm depressed/ anxious/ worried I write slot, partly for an outlet and partly to work through my thoughts. Recently made art for the same reason.

Finally forgot to say my biggest idea for hope is good old fashioned solidarity. Is there a renters union where you are or similar for support?

 

[ice-is-forming]

Thank you

The renters/homeless are mobilising, and there's a lot going on in that space. But the huge distances here, make direct activism of any sort really difficult, especially in Qld.

It's in the news all the time, and there's a lot of advocacy going on at a high level. It just feels like too little too late, and it's hard to get involved because Im seriously overwhelmed by it all. It's very close to home and I get really paralysed when I look at it face on.

But look at it face on I must. As you've suggested, I need to start writing this stuff down and talking to more people about how I feel, I try and keep it to myself because others are far worse off, and I'm not very good at asking for help.

I don't think I fear for myself, it's more my kids. Honestly, thank you so much for listening to me. It's actually made a world of difference. I was close to a breakdown a few weeks ago thinking about it, then my daughter came to mine, and Im still trying to sort out her rental that she broke a lease on after a relationship break up ( real estates are greedy here too) then being away for a week, getting triggered, getting covid etc... It's all been too much. Ive taken a few weeks off work, and I will be delegating more in my 9-5 job, and slowing down. That won't be a problem.

Ive never felt so powerless about anything before, and unfortunately it's something that I find incredibly triggering.
Plus now I have to think about keeping a roof over 3 heads not just 2.

I'll start to organise myself to do more self care, instead of self soothing. And start being solutions focused. The solutions will be radical, I don't think there's much choice about that. But maybe stepping away from everything is what I need?

I think there may be some solutions.. some loop holes n stuff. I think I need to speak to an expert

 

[ice-is-forming]

friendofdorothy you've certainly helped me to combat my hopelessness, which means I can continue to support others to combat theirs. X

 

[redsquirrel]

Sorry to hear that you're not going great ice-is-forming.
Am I right in thinking you are up Woolangong way?

 

[ice-is-forming]

Sorry to hear that you're not going great ice-is-forming.
Am I right in thinking you are up Woolangong way?

Thank you, I'm actually in Queensland

 

[friendofdorothy]

friendofdorothy you've certainly helped me to combat my hopelessness, which means I can continue to support others to combat theirs. X

You are welcome. Don't forget to accept help as well as giving it. You are worried for your children but they are adult and you don't always have to look after them. You deserve help too!

Don't forget it's impossible to help anyone if you are overwhelmed and falling to bits. Look after yourself and allow other to look after you too.

Solidarity x

 

[campanula]

In the same situation, Ice-y. All my kids have been on the move - none of them own anything and they have had to deal with horrendous housing issues - the youngest pay half of their entire income on a rental which allows them to do nothing (after being evicted just before Xmas) - not even put a plant in the fucking garden. It is the housing thing which triggers me too cos I have nothing to offer. I feel massive regret that I did not take up Right to Buy in the 80s - I honestly didn't imagine the insane speculative bubble which divorced housing affordability from any sort of reality unless rich parents, plus I didn't think it was ethical or right - to profit from social housing. Ultimately, I feel we are all precariously just surviving, while the housing situation is insane, unsustainable and obscene - there are no affordable properties, yet the university is in the middle of an aggressive expansion which will result in my hometown becoming like Singapore - proles living in some hinterland, being bussed in to serve the rich (there is even a freaking congestion charge being planned so we are going to have to pay to do our minimum wage jobs, utterly unable to compete with a speculative housing market and tech-worker wages.

I don't feel any of this is down to my own bad choices/mismanagement though - just being at the sharp end of a brutally uncaring capitalist system where homelessness is ever-present but there is no will to make any attempt to deal with it...even on the left, the denial is heart-breaking.

I do feel we have the support of each other...which is loads better than when I was younger and had no parents/family whatsoever.

 

[ice-is-forming]

I feel you campanula there was a time in the 80s where I had right to buy but principals stopped me. Now if in that position again I'd jump at the chance because I'd put my family first. The town Ive lived in for 24 years has boomed in the last few years, it used to be one of the cheapest places to live. But since covid migration from the southern states it's been ' discovered' . The whole of this state has, but when I look I see the situation is country wide and world wide.

I don't understand economics, it just feels like the entire population doubled or something. I've worked so hard for this town as well, as a community development worker, I'm really invested in it. It hurts, and as you've said, who's going to be able to provide services to the people who can afford to live here now. It's unsustainable and incredibly divisive.

I'll try and take a leaf from your book and stop blaming myself, I know on an intellectual level it's not my fault, but...

Love to you x

 

[redsquirrel]

Thank you, I'm actually in Queensland

Ah was thinking if I knew any nearby comrades but not familiar with anyone in Qld sorry

 

[brixtonscot]

Snip from a post on the ID politics thread. I didn't really go along with most of the idea of trauma theory but this but stood out for me.

I see people oppressed by our uncaring capitalist system being blamed for their own deprivation, their own poverty, unemployment, their own homelessness as if it's their own personal failure not to be rich not to have inherited some mansion. Characterised here in UK a few years ago by the heartless "strivers and skivers" idea from our useless Tory elite. It's an idea easily perpetuated by people born rich and given every advantage in life, oblivious to their own priveledge, unaware of their own random good luck in being born to rich parents.

Here a few years ago I demonstrated about some local mental health services been sited in the unemployment office. Yes a quick round of CBT under the watchful eye of the office with power to stop all your money will soon have you back in your right mind seeking employment.

Of course that's traumatic - it's putting people under unbearable pressure in a no win situation.

Very true friendofdorothy
This may have been posted before , but worth re-posting -

“For some time now, one of the most successful tactics of the ruling class has been responsibilisation. Each individual member of the subordinate class is encouraged into feeling that their poverty, lack of opportunities, or unemployment, is their fault and their fault alone. Individuals will blame themselves rather than social structures, which in any case they have been induced into believing do not really exist (they are just excuses, called upon by the weak). What Smail calls ‘magical voluntarism’ – the belief that it is within every individual’s power to make themselves whatever they want to be – is the dominant ideology and unofficial religion of contemporary capitalist society, pushed by reality TV ‘experts’ and business gurus as much as by politicians.

Magical voluntarism is both an effect and a cause of the currently historically low level of class consciousness. It is the flipside of depression – whose underlying conviction is that we are all uniquely responsible for our own misery and therefore deserve it. A particularly vicious double bind is imposed on the long-term unemployed in the UK now: a population that has all its life been sent the message that it is good for nothing is simultaneously told that it can do anything it wants to do.”

Good for Nothing : Mark Fisher

Good For Nothing

I’ve suffered from depression intermittently since I was a teenager. Some of these episodes have been highly debilitating – resulting in self-harm, withdrawal (where I would spend months on e…

theoccupiedtimes.org

 

[CH1]

I'm thinking of changing my "handle" to <Chemical Dave>
Felt the urge to post this abstract of an academic book by Edward Shorter which probably costs hundreds of $.

What interested me was the pole position south London psychiatrists played in the lithium debate. Aubrey Lewis of the Maudsley considered lithium treatment "dangerous nonsense". On the other hand psychiatrist Alex Coppen at Park Royal Hospital in Epsom said "Patients receiving lithium had very significantly less affective illness than patients receiving placebo tablets. No patient on lithium required convulsive treatment while almost half of the placebo group did”. Coppen later described the results of this study as “absolutely staggering.” “After that we decided to set up a lithium clinic because this obviously was a service we should offer our patients.” Later, Coppen followed up a group of such patients, using as a measure the number of deaths by suicide, “Instead of having a suicide rate of seven per thousand, which is the norm, we had a suicide rate of less than one per thousand”

The Abstract The history of lithium therapy

This editorial from a Scandinavian academic journal quotes a mad-sounding Audrey Lewis (Head of the Maudsley when quoted)

 

[CH1]

My feeble attempt at a reviving bump here.......................
not exactly protest or direct action - but debate from those responsible for the cure of souls

might be entertaining. These used to be aimed at students and staff of the Institute of Psychiatry (the Maudsley south)
Dr Shubulade Smith is a SLam consultant, currently President of the Royal College of Psychiatry. You can see what side she's on!

I used to go to these debates years ago - and saw Maudsley Consultants slagging off Paul Boateng (then an MP now a Lord) because he was vehemently opposed to legalising cannabis.
This flyer was one of the vintage masterpieces of the Maudsley Debates

Anyone wanting to go to the debate on 4th December on abolishing mental hospitals: 60th Maudsley Debate

 

[CH1]

My feeble attempt at a reviving bump here.......................
not exactly protest or direct action - but debate from those responsible for the cure of souls
View attachment 401653
Anyone wanting to go to the debate on 4th December on abolishing mental hospitals: 60th Maudsley Debate

In case anyone wanted to see what the debate was like it's here: 60th Maudsley Debate on '100 years is more than enough: This House believes that psychiatric hospitals should be consigned to the history books' - King’s College London

 

[friendofdorothy]

In case anyone wanted to see what the debate was like it's here: 60th Maudsley Debate on '100 years is more than enough: This House believes that psychiatric hospitals should be consigned to the history books' - King’s College London

sorry i missed this (too busy moving house in dec) it sounds interesting. Thanks for the link