Campaign for a New Workers Party Declaration

[Ratan]

Its Offensive to hang the Union Jack or Christian Icons but your child comes home saying they need to wear an Indian Religous garment to school, or they are having a religous holiday which isn't christian.

If you want to make a party that appeals to the masses, these are the obstacles you need to overcome.

Right now any party with the term Socialist in it, is considered Far Left wing and therefore prone to ridiculous ideas that waste money.


That's more yer ken livingslime/fundamentalist lib left sort than any other sort of w/c party?.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Signed by a bunch of Trot dole clerks, Trot Social Workers, Trot teachers, and Trot councillors.

Don't forget the Trot firefighters, Trot shop workers, Trot postal sorters and Trot former MPs.

 

[Fong]

Its Offensive to hang the Union Jack or Christian Icons but your child comes home saying they need to wear an Indian Religous garment to school, or they are having a religous holiday which isn't christian.

If you want to make a party that appeals to the masses, these are the obstacles you need to overcome.

Right now any party with the term Socialist in it, is considered Far Left wing and therefore prone to ridiculous ideas that waste money.


That's more yer ken livingslime/fundamentalist lib left sort than any other sort of w/c party?.

I would say that the socialist party and the entire 'working class' labelling conjours those images in what I would deem as the working class of the South East.

Doesn't matter whether the label is correct as long as its being applied.

I also think that without the South East a third party would have a neglible impact.

 

[Charlie Drake]

I'm not holding my breath - Is this inititive seeking links with the RMT one in January and the newly reformed SA?
....and any new org needs to knuckle down and do some some proper grass roots campaigning, not poncing about with megaphones and banging on about imperialism.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

... and the newly reformed SA?

How many chances do these people want?

 

[Charlie Drake]

Well, they'll say they're on to a winner cos they've got shot of the SWP, now they're all praying to Mecca. I'm very sceptical of everything, these says, but we'll see...

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Is this inititive seeking links with the RMT one in January and the newly reformed SA?

Short answer - yes.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Won't this put the skids under Workers Power's new mass party of the working class?

 

[mk12]

THey're working together I think.

 

[Charlie Drake]

Short answer - yes.

Good! - I wasn't getting at anyone

 

[Chuck Wilson]

THey're working together I think.

That's the kiss of death then. WP don't bring any class forces with them, will spend their time wanting to 'differentiate' themselves and after their initial shock at meeting anyone vaguely working class anyone remotely interested will be brow beaten by groups of students in donkey jackets with the need for the Fifth International.

Step away from that trade unionist and put down that copy of Trostky on Turkey...I repeat step away from that trade unionist and put down that copy......

 

[treelover]

Exactamundo...


btw, Fullyplumped , are you a New Labour apparatchik? i certainly think you are a an ex Trot or something, Workers Liberty?

and any new org needs to knuckle down and do some some proper grass roots campaigning, not poncing about with megaphones and banging on about imperialism.

 

[treelover]

An example of grassroots campaigning: the 'We want our buses back' campaign


http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2005/11/328125.html

 

[Ratan]

I would say that the socialist party and the entire 'working class' labelling conjours those images in what I would deem as the working class of the South East.

Doesn't matter whether the label is correct as long as its being applied.

I also think that without the South East a third party would have a neglible impact.

I sort of agree with that. The left need to get rid of that stigma of being bonkers obscurantist's.

 

[lewislewis]

This party would hammer Respect.

What will its devolution policy be?

 

[Ratan]

An example of grassroots campaigning: the 'We want our buses back' campaign


http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2005/11/328125.html

Not sexy enough thou for a lot of lefties .If you said ' we want our buses back in Basra' the trot juices would get flowing. But homegrown w/c ,pahh not thrusting enough.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Not sexy enough thou for a lot of lefties .If you said ' we want our buses back in Basra' the trot juices would get flowing. But homegrown w/c ,pahh not thrusting enough.

You do realise that the local Socialist Party are very strongly involved in the We Want Our Buses Back campaign?
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/2005/416/np12.htm

 

[gurrier]

Strangely enough I haven't noticed even a single mass party of the working class grazing in these parts for more than a decade. If you've seen a herd of them about please do let us know.

And there are still none about! On the other hand there have been gazillions of pompous and inherently absurd* calls for mass parties of the working class put out by trot sects at regular intervals.

* Absurd insofar as it is just ridiculous to launch a 'campaign' for a political party. What's effing stopping you from setting it up?

 

[Ratan]

You do realise that the local Socialist Party are very strongly involved in the We Want Our Buses Back campaign?
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/2005/416/np12.htm

Well like a said before your do actually plant your flag in those community's before any bold gallowaysesq rhetorical flourish.

 

[Ratan]

Although i still think David nellist looks like a corpse with a heartbeat.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

* Absurd insofar as it is just ridiculous to launch a 'campaign' for a political party. What's effing stopping you from setting it up?

I hate to break it to you gurrier, but we already have "just set up" a political party. It's called the Socialist Party. What we are talking about here is something much bigger and politically broader than ourselves - something that to have any real value will have to involve much larger forces. Hence a campaign for a party rather that just a declaration of a party.

 

[Groucho]

This party would hammer Respect.

What, in the way that the Red/Green Socialist Alliance eclipsed RESPECT with their splendid performance in the General Election?

Oh sorry, had you missed that?

 

[Ratan]

What, in the way that the Red/Green Socialist Alliance eclipsed RESPECT with their splendid performance in the General Election?

Oh sorry, had you missed that?

Splendid!!.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

What, in the way that the Red/Green Socialist Alliance eclipsed RESPECT with their splendid performance in the General Election?

No. I believe his point is that an open, democratic, working class based party might actually have a chance of reaching out to and involving wider sections of society than Respect.

 

[Fong]

No. I believe his point is that an open, democratic, working class based party might actually have a chance of reaching out to and involving wider sections of society than Respect.

I think you need to drop the entire 'working class' mentality and verbage to realistically get anywhere.

Bang on more about a society we can be proud of that ranks well with the world, a health and education system that works for our benefit not for someones profit.

Bang on about the things that real people give a shit about, cause most people couldn't give a toss for the working class.

Most people will refer to the old joke, how many Trade Unionists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

4.

An electrician, a carpenter, a health and saftey officr and a Union Representative.

 

[Groucho]

No. I believe his point is that an open, democratic, working class based party might actually have a chance of reaching out to and involving wider sections of society than Respect.

I think that RESPECT has more chance of achieving such a party on a national basis than the SP has.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I think that RESPECT has more chance of achieving such a party on a national basis than the SP has.

Respect, if you take that to mean Galloway plus the SWP plus a few Muslim "community leaders" plus hangers on, certainly has a higher profile, a bigger infrastructure and more electoral support than the Socialist Party.

On the other hand Respect has a significantly weaker influence in the trade union movement, and its core organisation (the SWP) is shrinking while the Socialist Party is growing. Even taking that into account though, if this was just a question of who is in a better organisational position you would be right. The problem is that there is more to it than that. New Labour and the Tories are vastly bigger and have vastly more support than either of us. It doesn't mean that they are going to help create a new party of the working class. Politics and approach matter, but then I really shouldn't have to tell you that.

Respect, if it maintains its present course, is highly unlikely to result in or even play a positive part in the creation of a mass party of the working class. Part of that is down to its narrowly, sectoral approach. By seeking to approach Muslims through established "community leaders" and on the basis of their religion, it renders itself unappealing to other sections of the working class. It's utter lack of internal democracy or even the rudiments of a democratic structure leave it evel less appetising. But even allowing that all of that could conceivably be overcome, and allowing that Respect could grow and to some extent prosper, it remains an unfortunate fact that the resulting party would not be one based on working class representation. For Respect after all, the working class are just one interest group amongst many.

 

[Fullyplumped]

btw, Fullyplumped, are you a New Labour apparatchik? i certainly think you are a an ex Trot or something, Workers Liberty?

I'm not an apparatchik, or an ex-Trot .... and anyway what has that to do with the price of bruschetta? Your quote "and any new org needs to knuckle down and do some some proper grass roots campaigning, not poncing about with megaphones and banging on about imperialism" was from Charlie Drake.

 

[Groucho]

Respect has a democratic structure. Respect has strong and growing support within the Trade Unions and is an overwhelmingly working class organisation.

The SWP is also a growing organisation.

Any attempt to set up a rival on the left will simply not even leave the starting line. Surely the SP will have to hope that Respect collapses which seems extremely unlikely.

 

[Squatticus]

Well, well, Nige, you seemed to have rattled a few cages, which you must be finding quite encouraging...