Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[butcher]

Anyone got a good homemade veg burger recipe?

I used to love a mushroom bhaji 'burger'

 

[Funky_monks]

Anyone got a good homemade veg burger recipe?

I used to love a mushroom bhaji 'burger'

I like to cook a big, flat field mushroom, season is just finishing (at least for the wild ones) gently in some garlic butter (oil will be fine). Lovely in bread etc

 

[friedaweed]

It’s great slow cooked as well

Absolutely. Loads of herbs, shallots and preserved lemons.and chilli 🌶

 

[friedaweed]

Anyone got a good homemade veg burger recipe?

I used to love a mushroom bhaji 'burger'

Black bean burgers go down well with the veggies in our family. Pretty sure its a nigel slater recipe. Will look tomorrow

 

[8ball]

Which ones in particular?

Name your favourite.

 

[WouldBe]

Name your favourite.

Niacin and thiamine are both heterocyclic amines which are quite useful.

 

[8ball]

Niacin and thiamine are both heterocyclic amines which are quite useful.

Ooh, that’s quite impressive tbf, even given
quite a few hours.

My apologies - dumbness ratio recalibrated.

So which of the chemicals in the beyond burger are known carcinogens at the amounts used?

 

[WouldBe]

So which of the chemicals in the beyond burger are known carcinogens at the amounts used?

No idea. Just pointing out some heterocyclic amines are useful.

 

[8ball]

No idea. Just pointing out some heterocyclic amines are useful.

Fair point. Though some are less useful and far more harmful.

I don’t dispute that they are delicious, though.

And I do think there is nothing to suggest that things like Beyond Burger are harmful to anyone if eaten as an occasional treat. The fact that those ingredients come with names reminiscent of school chemistry classes doesn’t mean that there is anything wrong with them.

 

[editor]

Meanwhile, away from the bucolic scenes of happy cows basking in the fields and enjoying a long and happy life, here's what's going on in the food world most people occupy:

Research has shown that fast-growing chickens, which reach their kill weight in just 35 days, can have higher levels of mortality, lameness and muscle disease than slower-growing breeds.

Analysis by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism and the Guardian found that more than 39m broilers, chickens bred for meat, the vast majority of which are fast-growing breeds, were rejected because of diseases and defects at slaughterhouses in England and Wales over a three-year period – approximately 35,000 every day.

UK government faces court challenge over ‘Frankenchickens’

Hearing granted for Humane League, which says use of fast-growing chickens breaches welfare rules

www.theguardian.com

And for those who think the Guardian is full of lies (unless they're delivering glowing reviews on their own products) you can read the same story in the Grocery Gazette:

Animal welfare charity takes UK government to court over 'Frankenchickens'

The Humane League is taking the UK government to court over the continued breeding of 'Frankenchickens', which suffer serious health conditions.

www.grocerygazette.co.uk

 

[butcher]

Meanwhile, away from the bucolic scenes of happy cows basking in the fields and enjoying a long and happy life, here's what's going on in the food world most people occupy:

UK government faces court challenge over ‘Frankenchickens’

Hearing granted for Humane League, which says use of fast-growing chickens breaches welfare rules

www.theguardian.com

And for those who think the Guardian is full of lies (unless they're delivering glowing reviews on their own products) you can read the same story in the Grocery Gazette:

Animal welfare charity takes UK government to court over 'Frankenchickens'

The Humane League is taking the UK government to court over the continued breeding of 'Frankenchickens', which suffer serious health conditions.

www.grocerygazette.co.uk

Good to hear Phil Oakey and the gang are still busy.

As you know I never said the Guardian is full of lies at all.


FYI I https://fossemeadows.com/ and even some people on a restricted budget choose them.


Can you not understand that I would rather people bought better welfare meat even if less frequently, and supported small local businesses in doing so. I have been pretty consistent in stating this.


You will find that most small indy butchers (as well as other food businesses) dislike the mode if food production of big supermarkets too.

 

[editor]

Can you not understand that I would rather people bought better welfare meat even if less frequently, and supported small local businesses in doing so. I have been pretty consistent in stating this.

Me too, funnily enough. But the vast majority of people don't and never will unless there's a huge shift in their buying habits.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Me too, funnily enough. But the vast majority of people don't and never will unless there's a huge shift in their buying habits.

This is where this debate always fails, though. The idea that it is the individual consumer that drives systemic change. I can't think of any other political question that is so consistently treated in this way on here.

To take just one example, feedlot beef farming was virtually non-existent in the UK up until very recently. It's been sliding in under the radar, and countering that requires political action. For starters, it requires making people aware that it's happening - many are not - but it also requires putting political pressure to reverse the trend. That's a call for collective action, not just individual consumers making better choices.

 

[editor]

This is where this debate always fails, though. The idea that it is the individual consumer that drives systemic change. I can't think of any other political question that is so consistently treated in this way on here.

To take just one example, feedlot beef farming was virtually non-existent in the UK up until very recently. It's been sliding in under the radar, and countering that requires political action. For starters, it requires making people aware that it's happening - many are not - but it also requires putting political pressure to reverse the trend. That's a call for collective action, not just individual consumers making better choices.

If it's not the buying preferences of individuals that are driving change, could you explain why the vegan/veggie section of my supermarket is now four times larger than a few years ago? And why the beef industry is now employing propaganda PR methods, like the tobacco industry before it?

Asking people to eat less meat is like asking people to drive less. They don't want to because they like it, and aren't that bothered about their own individual contribution to climate change. Some even like to double down on their appetite for meat and deride and belittle those choosing vegan diets, or completely dismiss* the huge amount of research that shows the damage that the meat industry inflicts on the planet, and its hideously inhumane production methods.

*see this thread for multiple examples

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If it's not the buying preferences of individuals that are driving change, could you explain why the vegan/veggie section of my supermarket is now four times larger than a few years ago? And why the beef industry is now employing propaganda PR methods, like the tobacco industry before it?

The expansion of feedlot farming has occurred within that very same time frame.

 

[editor]

The expansion of feedlot farming has occurred within that very same time frame.

I'm not sure what your point is. People who eat chicken rarely give a flying fuck about how their freaky-deeky meat reached their plate so long as it's finger-lickin' good, so why are they going to care when they're told about shitty beef production methods?

And how would you propose getting those people interested enough to consider not buying the stuff?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And how would you propose getting those people interested enough to consider not buying the stuff?

You don't necessarily. You make sure the stuff doesn't make it to the shelves in the first place. Hence the collective political action side of things.

 

[Spymaster]

Interesting piece here. We’re on track to set a new record for global meat consumption

Global meat consumption is at it's highest level ever and rising.

As LBJ has been saying on these threads for years, the solution is not the bonkers one spouted here by the nutty veghead brigade (tell people to stop eating it) but to move to lower impact methods of meat production.

 

[editor]

You don't necessarily. You make sure the stuff doesn't make it to the shelves in the first place. Hence the collective political action side of things.

So please share your ideas how this 'collective political action' might come about?

 

[ddraig]

It's quite possible to eat a healthy vegan diet on a budget, as it is possible to eat a healthy omnivore diet on a budget while avoiding the worst-welfare meats.

But it takes effort. It takes time, motivation and a degree of knowledge.

These threads always go round in circles, but berating people for feeding themselves and their their kids with cheap meat when they have precious little money or time and often limited access to alternatives really misses the point about the ways in which societies need to change their living habits.

It normally comes down to little more than 'I'm better than you cos I'm vegan'. It's an unpleasant and politically useless attitude.

It must have gone round again because here you are spouting the bit in bold again again, who here has said this?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So please share your ideas how this 'collective political action' might come about?

Compassion in World Farming are worth looking at. They've had a number of specific legislative successes over the years. Brexit was a fucker for them as many of their successes pre-2016 came at the level of EU legislation. I don't entirely agree with their approach, but we don't live in a perfect world and they're a net force for good imo and worth supporting. While most of their individual activists are vegans, they don't come at this from a pov that meat producers are necessarily evil. They try to work with meat producers to improve things - specifically to end factory farming practices, which is their main reason for being.

 

[editor]

Compassion in World Farming are worth looking at. They've had a number of specific legislative successes over the years. Brexit was a fucker for them as many of their successes pre-2016 came at the level of EU legislation. I don't entirely agree with their approach, but we don't live in a perfect world and they're a net force for good imo and worth supporting. While most of their individual activists are vegans, they don't come at this from a pov that meat producers are necessarily evil. They try to work with meat producers to improve things - specifically to end factory farming practices, which is their main reason for being.

I believe I've cited them several times in this thread but I can't see how they're going to make the slightest difference to the meat industry - and not to many posters here if there's vegans involved.

 

[Spymaster]

While most of their individual activists are vegans, they don't come at this from a pov that meat producers are necessarily evil. They try to work with meat producers to improve things - specifically to end factory farming practices, which is their main reason for being.

There are many sensible, well informed vegheads, who actually care about animal welfare and seek to improve things rather than moralising and berating others over their lifestyle choices. They just don't post on these threads.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I believe I've cited them several times in this thread but I can't see how they're going to make the slightest difference to the meat industry - and not to many posters here if there's vegans involved.

They already have made a difference. More of a difference than vegans are going to make by congratulating themselves for being vegan.

Enough of a difference? Of course not.

 

[Funky_monks]

This is where this debate always fails, though. The idea that it is the individual consumer that drives systemic change. I can't think of any other political question that is so consistently treated in this way on here.

To take just one example, feedlot beef farming was virtually non-existent in the UK up until very recently. It's been sliding in under the radar, and countering that requires political action. For starters, it requires making people aware that it's happening - many are not - but it also requires putting political pressure to reverse the trend. That's a call for collective action, not just individual consumers making better choices.

It's been around for yonks on a small scale, used to be known as "barley beef", but became a bit unpopular (can't quite remember why). As long as the animals are well looked after and have enough space, cattle are often housed in the winter anyway - I would say most ground in the UK is a bit wet to be outwintering cattle although more farmers seem to be trying it successfully.

 

[editor]

They already have made a difference. More of a difference than vegans are going to make by congratulating themselves for being vegan.

Sorry, where has this been happening?

And I thought you literally just said that most of Compassion in World Farming's activists were vegan?

 

[butcher]

Sorry, where has this been happening?

And I thought you literally just said that most of Compassion in World Farming's activists were vegan?

This paragraph answers you:

"While most of their individual activists are vegans, they don't come at this from a pov that meat producers are necessarily evil. They try to work with meat producers to improve things - specifically to end factory farming practices, which is their main reason for being."


ie working with people of opposing views for a mutually agreeable positive change rather than a 'wholefoodier than thou' attitude

 

[editor]

This paragraph answers you:

"While most of their individual activists are vegans, they don't come at this from a pov that meat producers are necessarily evil. They try to work with meat producers to improve things - specifically to end factory farming practices, which is their main reason for being."


ie working with people of opposing views for a mutually agreeable positive change rather than a 'wholefoodier than thou' attitude

So what percentage of vegans are all busy 'congratulating themselves for being vegan,' then? And what percentage go around with a 'wholefoodier than thou' attitude?

These belittling shitty little putdowns on people just because they don't choose to have the same diet as meat eaters are really fucking tiresome.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So what percentage of vegans are all busy 'congratulating themselves for being vegan,' then? And what percentage go around with a 'wholefoodier than thou' attitude?

These belittling shitty little putdowns on people just because they don't choose to have the same diet as meat eaters are really fucking tiresome.

wtf?

You have zero self-awareness. You're the one who dug out a 13-year-old post to make a shitty little putdown on someone who is trying to make what he considers an ethical living in the meat industry. The way you post on these threads is really fucking tiresome. And yes, you reek of smug moral superiority when you make these shitty putdowns or when you attempt to describe meat and meat-eating as a barbaric activity. And let's not forget how you boasted about tricking people into drinking non-dairy milk. You're the one with no respect for people who don't choose your diet.

 

[editor]

wtf?

You have zero self-awareness. You're the one who dug out a 13-year-old post to make a shitty little putdown on someone who is trying to make what he considers an ethical living in the meat industry. The way you post on these threads is really fucking tiresome. And yes, you reek of smug moral superiority when you make these shitty putdowns or when you attempt to describe meat and meat-eating as a barbaric activity. And let's not forget how you boasted about tricking people into drinking non-dairy milk. You're the one with no respect for people who don't choose your diet.

Mate. You've lost it completely.

Oh, and I've never called meat or meat eating 'barbaric.' You've made that up.

What I actually said was "I want to see barbaric industrial meat production ended."