Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[SpookyFrank]

That your posting horseshit. Firstly that comparison isn't equal. You're comparing two different weights. Secondly beef has more calories, therefore its macronutrient content (and thus energy) is greater. The idea there is more quality iron in lentils is laughable. Heme iron is a better source. Lentils are just carbs

Why would I want to cut my fat? Also lentils aren't complete proteins.

You are comparing two different weights of food. 70g with almost three times as much in weight of Lentils. Calories measure energy which the human body needs, obviously. So if you eat 70g of beef you'll get more than if you eat Lentils. I personally can't stomach the latter because the carb content is bad for me. OTOH beef will keep me going for hours.

Ah, another edition of 'biochemistry for halfwits' from team carnivore

E2a: although tbh it looks like you're actually just that tedious cunt Wells reborn yet again.

 

[campanula]

It is hard to discuss this when there are such polarised views. I generally eat meat most days...but with caveats regarding what sort of meat. I don't eat beef or pork, and could envisage no scenario where I would choose to eat a Macdonalds. I occasionally buy a lamb but mostly eat free range chooks (3 times a week probably...but usually just 1 chicken) and rabbit, fish and a mixture of freebies cos I know farmers and gamekeepers). I know that this is a ridiculously unlikely model for most people but I did just want to make a point that adopting simple binary positions on something as nuanced and divergent as the food industry and the politics involved, is doomed to fail. And this is on a macro level, involving global markets. and corporate farming. Once we accept the tricky subjective issues involved in personal taste (I hate lentils), culture, cost, knowledge base and even picky children...it all seems like shouting into the void. I am often a bit scoffing of feeble, incremental and slow generational changes...but for sure, the vexatious issues around food choices and accessibility are inevitably going to be emphasised by global climate crisis. There are a many possible mini-solutions...from bringing back domestic science into the national curriculum, food co-ops, communal kitchens, to simple pledges of 1 meat free day a week, which, I think, will be more effective than finger-pointing and shoutiness. Plus, I am always uncomfortable framing this sort of thing as individual choices...when we really need much broader, collective and systemic changes.

 

[glitch hiker]

Ah, another edition of 'biochemistry for halfwits' from team carnivore

E2a: although tbh it looks like you're actually just that tedious cunt Wells reborn yet again.

deal with the point or fuck off, don't really care which. Either way no one learns anything from your vapid ignorance, cunt

 

[glitch hiker]

Could you share the science that led you to this awesome conclusion?

Oh and are you that tiresome wanker Awesome Wells?

Why? You haven't even got the courage of your own convictions you stupid hypocrit

 

[8ball]

deal with the point or fuck off, don't really care which. Either way no one learns anything from your vapid ignorance, cunt

Ooh! Quite the charmer. Which point were you referring to? That fat has more calories per unit weight than carbohydrate?

 

[8ball]

Why? You haven't even got the courage of your own convictions you stupid hypocrit

Is this a case of "they're onto me, so I'll get my three remaining insults in before I'm booted"?

 

[glitch hiker]

Ooh! Quite the charmer. Which point were you referring to? That fat has more calories per unit weight than carbohydrate?

Yes fat has more calories than protein and carbs, I said that above. 9 cals to 4 per gram for the other two.

 

[editor]

Why? You haven't even got the courage of your own convictions you stupid hypocrit

I'll ask again. Are you that tiresome cunt Awesome Wells?

 

[8ball]

Yes fat has more calories than protein and carbs, I said that above. 9 cals to 4 per gram for the other two.

I think most people who have looked up the basics of macronutrients know this.
The question is, so what?

 

[glitch hiker]

Is this a case of "they're onto me, so I'll get my three remaining insults in before I'm booted"?

Do what you like, I don't owe people here anything. Certainly not the clown who's spent 26 pages calling everything whataboutery and denouncing all meat consumption while not practicing what he preaches. Nothing to learn from people like that

 

[glitch hiker]

I'll ask again. Are you that tiresome cunt Awesome Wells?

You can ask as many times as you like. I'm not remotely interested in this silly bullshit. I'm more interested in why you fel the need to argue the moral high ground from a positoin of such rank hypocrisy.

 

[glitch hiker]

I think most people who have looked up the basics of macronutrients know this.
The question is, so what?

so you'll get more energy from a gram of fat than carbs, plus fat is required for fat soluble vitamins

 

[8ball]

so you'll get more energy from a gram of fat than carbs, plus fat is required for fat soluble vitamins

The "so what" question remains...

 

[editor]

Is this a case of "they're onto me, so I'll get my three remaining insults in before I'm booted"?

And off he pops, no doubt to return under yet another name as he is utterly obsessed with this site.

 

[8ball]

Aw, ref!

I was looking forward to hearing how that observation was meant to be somehow relevant!

(It would make sense if animal fat was the only kind of fat and the main problem with diets in this country was a lack of calories, neither of which is true, so I couldn’t see where it was meant to be going)

 

[nogojones]

You make it sound so simple, as i said i agree that we eat too much meat as a society but it's a much more complicated issue......and tbh i can't see it happening in the foreseeable future and taxing the hell out of meat would still mean it would be the preserve of the affluent.....loads of people are just not going to change their tastes and habits that have been in place for generations that fast...

Maybe if we ration meat. Everyone gets 500g (or whatevers) of meat tokens a week, no exemptions for restaurants like in the war, where the rich were essentially not rationed. The poor or the vegans/veggies, could make a bit on the side selling off their tokens to all the Jeremy Clarksons they know, or if they really wanted to trigger them they could burn them in the streets.

 

[8ball]

Maybe if we ration meat. Everyone gets 500g (or whatevers) of meat tokens a week, no exemptions for restaurants like in the war, where the rich were essentially not rationed. The poor or the vegans/veggies, could make a bit on the side selling off their tokens to all the Jeremy Clarksons they know, or if they really wanted to trigger them they could burn them in the streets.

Plus an option to enter them into a meat raffle…

 

[Funky_monks]

This notion that fruit and veg is somehow really expensive and out of reach of many is one of the more ridiculous arguments in this thread. It's not hard to find street markets (and supermarkets) selling plenty of fruit and veg that is wildly affordable, even more so if you're going to compare it to beef/pork or whatever (and let's not forget plenty of animal produce is heavily subsidised).

I've had long spells on the dole as a vegetarian and never had problems finding decent veggie food to eat. I mean how cheap are potatoes, carrots, broccoli or loads of other vegetables?

Meat is subsidised in exactly the same way veg is subsidised.
BPS (Basic Payments Scheme) was the main subsidy payment before we left the EU (the others were "stewardship" for environmental works). BPS is a flat rate based on the area farmed - so, as such the extensive sector received the most subs - the main beneficiaries of this were: arable (wheat, barley and OSR are produced under the cost of production in a lot of cases), extensive livestock (beef sucklers, sheep), and extensive veg (spuds, carrots, broccoli, onions).
Because it takes up less actual space, intensive veg (tomatoes etc) and intensive meat (some pig, poultry) attracts almost no subsidy whatsoever. Pig and Poultry provide 80% of the meat consumed in this country and do this essentially without subsidy.

Post Brexit, this is being phased out and the new scheme (ELMS) is based on environmental works only.

 

[Funky_monks]

There's plenty of information available. Here's the first bit a google search returned.

Inside the bloody cartel war for Mexico's multibillion-dollar avocado industry

It's not just drugs. Mexico's cartels are fighting over avocados.

www.latimes.com

See also: Horticulture in southern Spain, which appears to rely on actual human trafficking from North Africa.

Campaign: The fight for agricultural workers' rights in southern Spain | Ethical Consumer

 

[krtek a houby]

And off he pops, no doubt to return under yet another name as he is utterly obsessed with this site.

There's a few of them, aye.

 

[xenon]

people had him clocked ages ago, including myself. He could’ve stuck around but it’s always with the over-the-top insults.

 

[8ball]

I have some time for the keto diet in terms of helping people with some stubborn kinds of epilepsy, but it leads some people to come out with some funny claims.

Including from some people who previously suffered from the condition, which is forgivable in that case imo.

 

[8ball]

people had him clocked ages ago, including myself. He could’ve stuck around but it’s always with the over-the-top insults.

Yeah, I was mostly interested to see where it led. Thought he’d keep a lid on it for longer.

 

[Gromit]

I believe that even if meat is never eaten again that climate change is still inevitable.

It's a convenient scapegoat to distract people from the things that are really destroying the planet. Things that are so profitable to the rich that they'll never stop. They'll continue to find strawmen and scapegoats to bait and switch the public with whilst the world burns.

Quite frankly I don't care anymore. It's their kids that will suffer the longest. Unable to buy their way out of hell but wealthy enough to prolong the agony.

It's like that Ben Elton book Stark.
I'll be long dead and I (along with the majority of me friends) am not leaving descendants behind to suffer it.

 

[Raheem]

It's like that Ben Elton book Stark.
I'll be long dead and I (along with the majority of me friends) am not leaving descendants behind to suffer it.

I've never read it, but is it really that bad?

 

[8ball]

I think I might have read it a really, really long time ago.

 

[xenon]

Yeah, I was mostly interested to see where it led. Thought he’d keep a lid on it for longer.

Always ends the same way though doesn't it. Gets increasingly biligerant and weirdly defensive about his dietry choices...

ON the keto thing. I eat a relatively low carb diet, most weeks. Not much bread pasta etc. The usual dislike of processed carbs that leaves me feeling bloated, indigestion blah, blah. But also I'm sitting around most of the day and get a few caliries more than is probably wise from beer.

Fortunately I do like most beans, all the beans. Unfortunately I CBA cooking much....

 

[Funky_monks]

I believe that even if meat is never eaten again that climate change is still inevitable.

It's a convenient scapegoat to distract people from the things that are really destroying the planet. Things that are so profitable to the rich that they'll never stop. They'll continue to find strawmen and scapegoats to bait and switch the public with whilst the world burns.

Quite frankly I don't care anymore. It's their kids that will suffer the longest. Unable to buy their way out of hell but wealthy enough to prolong the agony.

It's like that Ben Elton book Stark.
I'll be long dead and I (along with the majority of me friends) am not leaving descendants behind to suffer it.

I think that whilst its nice - personal lifestyle choices beyond not having kids that people will realistically do make very little difference.

I was looking for the EU version of this graph earlier (local geography being much more relevant) - it shows what has to change really. Will it? IMO, the reason "no meat" is being pushed by the organs of capital (MSM etc) is because the processors have spotted a lucrative gap in the market to sell us more ultra processed food and, if the NHS slides into the history books, this is lucrative for the healthcare industries also. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/09/Emissions-by-sector-–-pie-charts.png

 

[editor]

IMO, the reason "no meat" is being pushed by the organs of capital (MSM etc) is because the processors have spotted a lucrative gap in the market to sell us more ultra processed food and, if the NHS slides into the history books, this is lucrative for the healthcare industries also. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/09/Emissions-by-sector-–-pie-charts.png

Just when I thought that the 'it's better to give up veg than beef' comment wouldn't ever be bettered, you've now come up with this truly ludicrous conspiracy, fact-free theory!

 

[Gromit]

I've never read it, but is it really that bad?

There is a saying that hell is other people.

Imagine if the only people left were rich capital cunts. The sort that caused the ruination of the planet to begin with.

The scenario Ben Elton painted.