Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[Sue]

What about people who can't maintain health on so restrictive a diet?

To meet people's needs we'd need more space if you aren't eating meat because plants are less nutritionally dense. Soil erosion is much more likely when plant agriculture is the focus rather than including livestock. Steak may have been a treat, but that's a particular cut of meat. We could include way more parts of the animal, be less wasteful that way, include more offal which is extremely good for us.

Like who?

 

[Flavour]

What about people who can't maintain health on so restrictive a diet?

wtf are you on about?

 

[glitch hiker]

Are you saying that they can't be got without meat then? Are vegans less healthier than you?

I have no idea, I don't set myself as a benchmark.

Some nutrients require animal products. Some are optimised best in animal form. Liver is an excellent source of vitmain A, for example, while fish are superb for omega fatty acids. For a vegan diet to be healthy would require a vast global indsutry of supplements (and the associated supply chain). Some plants won't grow locally, livestock doesn't have that problem.

If you tell me you're healthy as a vegan, great. That's your business. I've no interest in proving you wrong. But if you want to make everyone a vegan you are necessarily going to include people for whom that will be catastrophically difficult. I've read far too many stories of people who, and I assume at least some of them are honest, followed a vegan diet, to the best advice possible (which isn't hard to find), and found their health failing. You are welcome to eat a plant based diet, I'd simply like that courtesy to be extended as eating a diet rich in animal food has been transformative for my weight, state of mind and blood sugar.

wtf are you on about?

I don't see anything unclear in what I said.

 

[glitch hiker]

Omelettes, eggs, yada yada...

Or, as I like to call it, breakfast

 

[8ball]

But if you want to make everyone a vegan...

I don't think that's likely to happen very quickly. Besides, apart from a bit of B12 I'm not sure that many people would need any supplements at all.

 

[glitch hiker]

I don't think that's likely to happen very quickly. Besides, apart from a bit of B12 I'm not sure that many people would need any supplements at all.

I think it's entirely dependent on the individual. But I don't feel morally compelled to eat no meat and I don't believe there is a good environmental argument for it either. Addressing factory farming is one area of concern where all can agree, but unfortunately given the nature of the vegan position that won't happen

 

[Flavour]

"unfortunately given the nature of the vegan position that won't happen"

so now it's vegans' fault that factory farming can't be ended? have I got that right?

 

[Sue]

I think it's entirely dependent on the individual. But I don't feel morally compelled to eat no meat and I don't believe there is a good environmental argument for it either. Addressing factory farming is one area of concern where all can agree, but unfortunately given the nature of the vegan position that won't happen

I believe the moon is made of green cheese and I have the YouTube video to prove it an' all.

 

[8ball]

I believe the moon is made of green c***** and I have the YouTube video to prove it an' all.

I hope you know how triggering the c-word can be to vegans, regardless of what colour you make it.

 

[Sue]

I hope you know how triggering the c-word can be to vegans, regardless of what colour you make it.

Vegan cheese obvs.

 

[8ball]

Vegan c***** obvs.

One day there will be such a thing. But until then, please don't torture them.

 

[glitch hiker]

I believe the moon is made of green cheese and I have the YouTube video to prove it an' all.

You believe the notion that some people can't cope with a vegan diet is exactly equal to the claim the moon isn't real? Discourse isn't for you, perhaps?

 

[Sue]

You believe the notion that some people can't cope with a vegan diet is exactly equal to the claim the moon isn't real? Discourse isn't for you, perhaps?

You said:

I don't feel morally compelled to eat no meat and I don't believe there is a good environmental argument for it either.

So you know you can believe whatever, that doesn't necessarily make it true.

 

[glitch hiker]

You said:

So you know you can believe whatever, that doesn't make it true.

This is vacuous. Consider that animals can graze where plants can't grow and that proper land management livestock can maintain the health of the soil. Just as they always have, in their proper ecological niche. The idea that suddenly, commensurate with industrial revolution, livestock became inimical to the health of the planet, is going to require more evidence than your incredulity. Now, we both agree that factory farming is a problem, so why not address that, rahter than go to the extreme of trying to persuade everyone on earth to give up all animal products entirely and forever.

 

[Sue]

This is vacuous. Consider that animals can graze where plants can't grow and that proper land management livestock can maintain the health of the soil. Just as they always have, in their proper ecological niche. The idea that suddenly, commensurate with industrial revolution, livestock became inimical to the health of the planet, is going to require more evidence than your incredulity. Now, we both agree that factory farming is a problem, so why not address that, rahter than go to the extreme of trying to persuade everyone on earth to give up all animal products entirely and forever.

I'm not. You're claiming there's no good environmental argument for not eating meat. Go back and read the OP.

 

[Aladdin]

Omelettes, eggs, yada yada...

Some (quite a few) people are allergic to eggs.

 

[StoneRoad]

For healthy soil, you really need manure from herbivores; which can graze on land that isn't fertile enough or is unsuitable in other ways for growing anything other than grass or trees.

Putting grass etc through a herbivore is quicker and more effective than just composting vegetable waste.

 

[glitch hiker]

I'm not. You're claiming there's no good environmental argument for not eating meat. Go back and read the OP.

The claim seems to pertain to deforestation. I'm not arguing for deforestation. We can manage land and graze livestock without having to clear cut the Amazon.

 

[ddraig]

And the whattaboutery is strong in this one!

 

[glitch hiker]

And the whattaboutery is strong in this one!

For example?

 

[ddraig]

For example?

most of your posts here

 

[platinumsage]

A post-meat future will require selling amino acid or vitamin supplements to e.g. Samoyed or Yanomami peoples. No more nomadic reindeer herding or blowpipe hunting for you, go buy some imported tofu. Colonialism at its finest.

 

[Saul Goodman]

For example?

It's his go-to line when he can't think of anything of worth to post. Don't expect a worthwhile answer.

 

[smmudge]

Nature is elegant and provides us with what we need and what we know to be beneficial for us. I think that is reassuring and humbling.

How come nature doesn't cook the meat for us

Really need some salmonella yum.

 

[Flavour]

A post-meat future will require selling amino acid or vitamin supplements to e.g. Samoyed or Yanomami peoples. No more nomadic reindeer herding or blowpipe hunting for you, go buy some imported tofu. Colonialism at its finest.

literally nobody, on any of the threads on urban ever on the topic, has ever advocated enforcing a meat-free diet on nomadic peoples of the Arctic circle, you silly dickhead

 

[cupid_stunt]

This will bring all the beef to a new thread.

 

[8ball]

literally nobody, on any of the threads on urban ever on the topic, has ever advocated enforcing a meat-free diet on nomadic peoples of the Arctic circle, you silly dickhead

And there are probably less than six who would have done so had they thought of it.

 

[platinumsage]

literally nobody, on any of the threads on urban ever on the topic, has ever advocated enforcing a meat-free diet on nomadic peoples of the Arctic circle, you silly dickhead

I thought this thread was about a “post-meat future”, not just some rich Western folks buying veggie sausages made with soya protein from previously-forested Brazilian land?

 

[WouldBe]

Putting grass etc through a herbivore is quicker and more effective than just composting vegetable waste.

When I had pet rabbits my dad always fed Brussel sprout stalks to them as the resulting manure would compost far faster than the stalks would.

 

[Saul Goodman]

When I had pet rabbits my dad always fed Brussel sprout stalks to them as the resulting manure would compost far faster than the stalks would.

If he'd also fed them the sprouts, it'd have had the added benefit of not having to eat them himself.