Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Another expose of brutality. Who'd have thought that every week undercover investigations into farms reveal brutal sadism inflicted on animals. It's almost as if classifying animals as expendable commodities to kill and eat might promote such tendencies? Still, just 'a few bad apples' I guess, or perhaps that wretched apologist Funky Monks will run along again to claim that the footage 'is faked' by 'activists'?
editor
hiraethified
And still some people insist that animals must be treated well because of the 'Red Tractor' standard...
And: Shocking Abuse Exposed at Red Tractor Pig Farm
Horrific scenes of animal abuse recorded at Red Tractor approved dairy farm in Wales - Herald.Wales
An undercover investigation handed to leading UK vegan campaigning charity Viva! has uncovered shocking scenes of animal abuse at a 500-cow dairy
www.herald.wales
A Red Tractor Assured Nightmare - A UK Pig Farm Investigation
Our investigation has revealed the horrors on a Red Tractor Assured Farm
www.animaljusticeproject.com
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Probably better to use someone other than James Woods to make your point. He applauds when bulls fight back, but when humans do so, he advocates mass slaughter.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
There are lots of tweets on Vandana's account simply pointing out that farmer protests are happening all over Europe and we aren't being informed about it. She appears to make no further comment about it, and only one is from Sweden. There is, if you have been keeping up with developments in agriculture across Europe to drive food producers businesses down, increased control by the supermarkets which ultimately, will force land into fewer, bigger agribusinesses that can cope with the economies of scale and to take land out of production for "green lairds" to offset on behalf of fossil fuel companies and/or those who rely on them.
Monbiot jumps all over that tweet, essentially calling her a fascist because, sometimes the far right has tried to use farmer protests for political capital?
Again, using pure mysogyny to suggest that because she went on Russel Brands show, she somehow echoes his views on everything because apparently an award winning scientist doesn't have any agency once shes being interviewed by some bloke, his views on other things must be hers because that's the way the patriarchal power structure works (a view, that was sadly echoed on here, again by some blokes)
Fucking mad - Monbiot is not, and has never been a scientist and has done nothing beyond journalism in his life. No criticism of her science, just the public vilifying of scientists who don't agree with him. This is happening a lot (see the earlier posts about the Dublin Declaration). If Geoerge wants to see far right then maybe he should look in the mirror, his Tory upbringing is showing.
Here is Vandana's twitter, the themes are quite consistent: Anti GMO, anti globalist control of food production: https://twitter.com/drvandanashiva
Monbiot jumps all over that tweet, essentially calling her a fascist because, sometimes the far right has tried to use farmer protests for political capital?
Again, using pure mysogyny to suggest that because she went on Russel Brands show, she somehow echoes his views on everything because apparently an award winning scientist doesn't have any agency once shes being interviewed by some bloke, his views on other things must be hers because that's the way the patriarchal power structure works (a view, that was sadly echoed on here, again by some blokes)
Fucking mad - Monbiot is not, and has never been a scientist and has done nothing beyond journalism in his life. No criticism of her science, just the public vilifying of scientists who don't agree with him. This is happening a lot (see the earlier posts about the Dublin Declaration). If Geoerge wants to see far right then maybe he should look in the mirror, his Tory upbringing is showing.
Here is Vandana's twitter, the themes are quite consistent: Anti GMO, anti globalist control of food production: https://twitter.com/drvandanashiva
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Has Shiva spoken about the failure of the Sri Lanka organic experiment? A good idea badly executed? Attempting it overnight was a big mistake? What's her take on it?
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I saw that. In this case, the messenger is not equal to his message
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I think she was supportive of the idea but not the way it was implemented.
It seems the Sri Lankans did a lot of importing organic fertiliser instead. She discusses it here, but I don't speak Hindi, so its hard for me to get the gist:
My own take on it was that they went far too fast - you can't just ban fert overnight and expect everything to be ok, its a gradual process. Soils need to be built, changes in practice need to happen incrementally. You can't dismantle a cheap food system that relies on synthetic fert overnight, you need to transition out of it, find what approaches work in whatever particular microclimate you live in - sustainable/regen agriculture isn't just reverting to pre "green revolution" farming, its making use of all the things we know now/use of tech etc to farm in a less damaging way.
Ive watched UK farms change farming policy and it can take years to fully implement/see any success in.
editor
hiraethified
Not sure why anyone wants to listen to an anti vaxx discredited source such as Vandana.
www.europeanscientist.com
Scientists sign another letter regarding Dr Vandana Shiva's anti-scientific and unethical stances
On January 31 2023 more than 50 scientists have signed a letter and addressed it to Boston College, Florida International for hosting philosopher Vandana Shiva regarding two upcoming events. Dear Colleagues We are scholars and journalists of life sciences and social sciences from around the...
www.europeanscientist.com
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I wonder if you've actually read that letter?
They seem to lead with her stance on vaccines, but the rest of her "untenable positions" seem to stem from not supporting agritech and fertiliser giants.
Their argument is that she is pro starvation for not wanting GMOs to be grown and not wanting petrochemical fert to be used.
She has repeatedly called for resistance against the global 1%, who also happen to be well represented in these areas.
As I said prior, we are absolutely reliant on petrochemical fertilisers to feed people - it is estimated that they have saved over a billion people from starvation.
But; we cannot continue to rely on them for so many reasons:
1) Fossil fuels are a limited resource
2) Synthetic fert essentially treats the soil like it is a hydroponic system, ie, it makes nutrients available in the very short term but it does not build soil
3) Monoculture crops, for this reason cause soil loss and erosion
4) Any fertiliser not immediately taken up by the plants runs off as it is in liquid form, it does not have structure (unlike, say farmyard manure/dung deposited directly by grazers).
She has opinions on the negative health effects on GMOs, which may or may not be unfounded but the thing that should terrify people about them is this:
1) They can be owned and made sterile. This means that growers must continue to buy seed from the big companies, saving seed to sow next year could be impossible
2) They can pollinate non GMO organisms, thus transferring their genetic material elsewhere.
If you are even remotely left wing (and, to be honest even if you aren't, but are not a fan of corporate control of food production), you'd be worried by that. Seeds and plants and livestock should belong to everyone. I'm with Gerald Winstanley on that.
Edited to add: Look at some of the references at the bottom of that.
"It's great that we can now bung selective herbicides all over herbicide resistant plants to wipe all other competing species out"
"Glyphosate is fine, according to our study, because it doesn't cause kidney disease in humans"
"Activists are delusional"
etc etc
They seem to lead with her stance on vaccines, but the rest of her "untenable positions" seem to stem from not supporting agritech and fertiliser giants.
Their argument is that she is pro starvation for not wanting GMOs to be grown and not wanting petrochemical fert to be used.
She has repeatedly called for resistance against the global 1%, who also happen to be well represented in these areas.
As I said prior, we are absolutely reliant on petrochemical fertilisers to feed people - it is estimated that they have saved over a billion people from starvation.
But; we cannot continue to rely on them for so many reasons:
1) Fossil fuels are a limited resource
2) Synthetic fert essentially treats the soil like it is a hydroponic system, ie, it makes nutrients available in the very short term but it does not build soil
3) Monoculture crops, for this reason cause soil loss and erosion
4) Any fertiliser not immediately taken up by the plants runs off as it is in liquid form, it does not have structure (unlike, say farmyard manure/dung deposited directly by grazers).
She has opinions on the negative health effects on GMOs, which may or may not be unfounded but the thing that should terrify people about them is this:
1) They can be owned and made sterile. This means that growers must continue to buy seed from the big companies, saving seed to sow next year could be impossible
2) They can pollinate non GMO organisms, thus transferring their genetic material elsewhere.
If you are even remotely left wing (and, to be honest even if you aren't, but are not a fan of corporate control of food production), you'd be worried by that. Seeds and plants and livestock should belong to everyone. I'm with Gerald Winstanley on that.
Edited to add: Look at some of the references at the bottom of that.
"It's great that we can now bung selective herbicides all over herbicide resistant plants to wipe all other competing species out"
"Glyphosate is fine, according to our study, because it doesn't cause kidney disease in humans"
"Activists are delusional"
etc etc
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Pigs beaten to death with an iron bar on a free range, RSPCA assured 'high welfare' farm:
www.independent.co.uk
Cue the fake concern of animal-eating hypcrits: oh no how terrible, we do not endorse this, better enforcement is needed.
No, sorry, if you eat meat you are responsible for shit like this. Stop fucking deluding yourselves otherwise. You are responsible because, every single fucking week there are exposes of attrocities like this, including from supposedly 'humane' farms, so quit pretending this is just 'a few bad apples', its not. It's entirely predictable and inevitable and part and parcel of a system of commodifying, confining, mutilating, slaughtering and dismembering the bodies of sentient beings so we can eat them. This is the price these beings pay for your participation in this sytem of violence.
Workers sacked after film shows pigs ‘beaten to death with iron bar’
Exclusive: Charity suspends ‘high-welfare’ business supplying Morrisons and Tesco after ‘illegal and inexcusable’ attacks
www.independent.co.uk
Cue the fake concern of animal-eating hypcrits: oh no how terrible, we do not endorse this, better enforcement is needed.
No, sorry, if you eat meat you are responsible for shit like this. Stop fucking deluding yourselves otherwise. You are responsible because, every single fucking week there are exposes of attrocities like this, including from supposedly 'humane' farms, so quit pretending this is just 'a few bad apples', its not. It's entirely predictable and inevitable and part and parcel of a system of commodifying, confining, mutilating, slaughtering and dismembering the bodies of sentient beings so we can eat them. This is the price these beings pay for your participation in this sytem of violence.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
What utter fucking bollocks. Its perfectly possible to farm pigs without doing anything like that. I know, I've farmed pigs.
I also know full well that plenty of "activist" associations (eg peta) just make stuff up to suit themselves
bcuster
Well-Known Member
eat less meat
www.yahoo.com
www.nippon.com
Fish eater dies after cooking deadly pufferfish given to him as present
A Brazilian man named Magno Sergio Gomes tragically died after ingesting a poisonous pufferfish that packs enough venom to kill 30 humans.
A Taste for Danger: The Hazardous History of Fugu
There is a scene in a 1977 instalment of the Torakku yarō (Truck Guys) series where the main character is buri…
www.nippon.com
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WouldBe
Dislicksick
Lots of poisonous plants/fungi around as well.eat less meat
Fish eater dies after cooking deadly pufferfish given to him as present
A Brazilian man named Magno Sergio Gomes tragically died after ingesting a poisonous pufferfish that packs enough venom to kill 30 humans.
A Taste for Danger: The Hazardous History of Fugu
There is a scene in a 1977 instalment of the Torakku yarō (Truck Guys) series where the main character is buri…
The Simpsons did Fugu as well as brocoli.Lots of poisonous plants/fungi around as well.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
As well as being cow rapists and child abducters and child killers, the dairy industry are thick as fuck.
They tried to sue the brand Oatly to prevent it using the ’Post Milk Generation’ trademark on food and drink products because the term ‘milk’ in a trademark can only be used in relation to mammary secretions.
I don't think you have to be an IP lawyer to see why this claim is moronic - the prefix 'post' obviously modifies the meaning of the word 'milk' in that context. I wonder if these perpetual breastfeeding fuckwits ever stopped to think why products like 'beyond meat' and 'this is not... (chicken, bacon etc.)' are available in the grocery stores? Who'd have thunk that words only have meaning in context?
Of course the cow abusers lost:
Oatly wins legal case to use ‘Post Milk Generation’ trademark
They tried to sue the brand Oatly to prevent it using the ’Post Milk Generation’ trademark on food and drink products because the term ‘milk’ in a trademark can only be used in relation to mammary secretions.
I don't think you have to be an IP lawyer to see why this claim is moronic - the prefix 'post' obviously modifies the meaning of the word 'milk' in that context. I wonder if these perpetual breastfeeding fuckwits ever stopped to think why products like 'beyond meat' and 'this is not... (chicken, bacon etc.)' are available in the grocery stores? Who'd have thunk that words only have meaning in context?
Of course the cow abusers lost:
Oatly wins legal case to use ‘Post Milk Generation’ trademark
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
True, or perhaps a compound word - 'postmilk'; like 'postmodernism'.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Not only are farmers disgusting bullies and animal abusers but increasingly also the enemies of civilisation. Their recent far-right-endorsed thuggery across Europe has caused the EU to back down on its agricultural emissions reduction targets
www.politico.eu
EU eases farming demands in 2040 climate proposal
The EU executive dropped specific references to agriculture emissions cuts as farmers protest across Europe.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Imagine thinking that people who produce all the food are "enemies of civilisation"
Fucking lost it.
Every time Jeff posts, the epithet "starvation enthusiast" becomes even more relevant.
And yeah the far right do try to generate political capital from protest - since when is that new?
The French government are now trying to level the playing field by doing things like immediately stopping the import of produce sprayed with Thiacloprid,a neonnic banned in France. They will implement "Food Sovereignty" , not importing goods that are produced using methods and products illegal in France.
As I've said before, all industries should be moving away from fossil fuels, but until agricultural emissions are properly understood by policy makers,we can't move forward.
Jeff has been educated in how standing heat works in animals and yet he still uses the "rape" trope when it comes to farm animals mating. Such disgusting misogyny, and yet he seems to get away with it. Myself and other posters here have worked in farming, how many other places on this board would it be acceptable to label other posters as rapists over and over again?
The temerity of throwing around "far right" when veganism is a philosophy generated by religious extremists (seventh day adventists, who still fund Viva!), progressed through Italian Fascism (Giacomo Boni and Giuseppe Tucci) to its modern position within ecofascism is beyond....
Fucking lost it.
Every time Jeff posts, the epithet "starvation enthusiast" becomes even more relevant.
And yeah the far right do try to generate political capital from protest - since when is that new?
The French government are now trying to level the playing field by doing things like immediately stopping the import of produce sprayed with Thiacloprid,a neonnic banned in France. They will implement "Food Sovereignty" , not importing goods that are produced using methods and products illegal in France.
As I've said before, all industries should be moving away from fossil fuels, but until agricultural emissions are properly understood by policy makers,we can't move forward.
Jeff has been educated in how standing heat works in animals and yet he still uses the "rape" trope when it comes to farm animals mating. Such disgusting misogyny, and yet he seems to get away with it. Myself and other posters here have worked in farming, how many other places on this board would it be acceptable to label other posters as rapists over and over again?
The temerity of throwing around "far right" when veganism is a philosophy generated by religious extremists (seventh day adventists, who still fund Viva!), progressed through Italian Fascism (Giacomo Boni and Giuseppe Tucci) to its modern position within ecofascism is beyond....
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Or just don't eat the deadly sushi.eat less meat
Fish eater dies after cooking deadly pufferfish given to him as present
A Brazilian man named Magno Sergio Gomes tragically died after ingesting a poisonous pufferfish that packs enough venom to kill 30 humans.
A Taste for Danger: The Hazardous History of Fugu
There is a scene in a 1977 instalment of the Torakku yarō (Truck Guys) series where the main character is buri…
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Is breastmilk considered an animal product?
butcher
boner at the ready
Of course the other elephant in the room is food waste.
Something everyone could sign up to, which would also ameliorate the veggies by reducing meat production as a by product
www.greenmatch.co.uk
Something everyone could sign up to, which would also ameliorate the veggies by reducing meat production as a by product
The Impact of Food Waste: Statistics, Trends and Actionable Insights
Discover alarming food waste statistics globally. Understand the impact on economy, environment, and how you can contribute to reducing waste
www.greenmatch.co.uk
bcuster
Well-Known Member
100% agreeOf course the other elephant in the room is food waste.
Something everyone could sign up to, which would also ameliorate the veggies by reducing meat production as a by product
The Impact of Food Waste: Statistics, Trends and Actionable Insights
Discover alarming food waste statistics globally. Understand the impact on economy, environment, and how you can contribute to reducing waste
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