Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[friedaweed]

There seems to be some hysteria in the blogosphere about the fact that the IPCCs recent climate emergency announcements focussed (correctly) on fossil fuel use and not meat.
For balance, here is a referenced blog post (edited by another of the "wrong scientists" Prof Frederik Leroy):
Livestock and greenhouse gas emissions

If nothing else, it'll keep the conspiracy theorists on here going.

If I can be arsed (or I think anyone will read it), I'll post some work I've done on Poore and Nemecek 2018, although its pretty outdated at this point.

I'll have a read of that please.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

There seems to be some hysteria in the blogosphere about the fact that the IPCCs recent climate emergency announcements focussed (correctly) on fossil fuel use and not meat.
For balance, here is a referenced blog post (edited by another of the "wrong scientists" Prof Frederik Leroy):
Livestock and greenhouse gas emissions

If nothing else, it'll keep the conspiracy theorists on here going.

If I can be arsed (or I think anyone will read it), I'll post some work I've done on Poore and Nemecek 2018, although its pretty outdated at this point.

You mean the IPCC recommending a shift to plant-based diets and then editing that out at the insistence of major beef-producing states? Nothing suspicious there!

 

[Funky_monks]

You mean the IPCC recommending a shift to plant-based diets and then editing that out at the insistence of major beef-producing states? Nothing suspicious there!

funny, earlier in the thread the IPCC were beyond reproach, and when I suggested that they were being very effectively lobbied by the fossil fuel industries, that was, apparently nonsense.

Although, the article you linked to is mostly conjecture and lots of countries would object to the statement: “plant-based diets can reduce GHG emissions by up to 50% compared to the average emission-intensive Western diet,”
Because its bollocks.

 

[friedaweed]

You mean the IPCC recommending a shift to plant-based diets and then editing that out at the insistence of major beef-producing states? Nothing suspicious there!

Was there anything reworded after the Saudis spat their dummy out?

 

[WouldBe]

There seems to be some hysteria in the blogosphere about the fact that the IPCCs recent climate emergency announcements focussed (correctly) on fossil fuel use and not meat.
For balance, here is a referenced blog post (edited by another of the "wrong scientists" Prof Frederik Leroy):
Livestock and greenhouse gas emissions

If nothing else, it'll keep the conspiracy theorists on here going.

If I can be arsed (or I think anyone will read it), I'll post some work I've done on Poore and Nemecek 2018, although its pretty outdated at this point.

Anyone would think it's complicated.

 

[bcuster]

I'd say that the use of fossil fuels, at this point in time, is far less avoidable than the consumption of animal flesh.

 

[friedaweed]

I'd say that the use of fossil fuels, at this point in time, is far less avoidable than the consumption of animal flesh.

How then? There's habitual reliance on both of the problems so how is one more achievable than the other? Do you really think that that if people started eating beetroot burgers every little ting would be all right?

 

[bcuster]

Fish populations falling drastically, we are 30 years "post peak"

We think it peaked around 1996 at 130 million metric tons. In the 1990s, there were still new stocks that we could exploit that had never been exploited. Then there came a time where the expansion hit a limit. It could not expand further, even though the fishing effort, the number of boats that we have and the time they spend at sea, is more today than in the 1990s.

That 130 million metric tons of fish provide about 5 percent of the calories needed for the world. And it is perhaps 20 percent of the global fish biomass at any time. In a sustainable, well-managed fishery, you can typically catch about 10 percent per year of the biomass that is there. So the global catch is excessive.

How much have the oceans suffered as a result?

There isn’t one single way to quantify this that everybody will agree on. But if you take the abundance of big fish, like sharks, they have been reduced by 70 percent. The biomass of exploited fish populations is going down virtually everywhere. People are shifting the population of the oceans to smaller fish.

https://knowablemagazine.org/article/food-environment/2023/how-to-stop-overfishing?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

[friedaweed]

Fish populations falling drastically, we are 30 years "post peak"

We think it peaked around 1996 at 130 million metric tons. In the 1990s, there were still new stocks that we could exploit that had never been exploited. Then there came a time where the expansion hit a limit. It could not expand further, even though the fishing effort, the number of boats that we have and the time they spend at sea, is more today than in the 1990s.

That 130 million metric tons of fish provide about 5 percent of the calories needed for the world. And it is perhaps 20 percent of the global fish biomass at any time. In a sustainable, well-managed fishery, you can typically catch about 10 percent per year of the biomass that is there. So the global catch is excessive.

How much have the oceans suffered as a result?

There isn’t one single way to quantify this that everybody will agree on. But if you take the abundance of big fish, like sharks, they have been reduced by 70 percent. The biomass of exploited fish populations is going down virtually everywhere. People are shifting the population of the oceans to smaller fish.

https://knowablemagazine.org/article/food-environment/2023/how-to-stop-overfishing?utm_source=pocket-newtab

The fish situation is nothing short of chronic. Alongside that of course is the profound effects on pollution on our seas and river courses. Something we can intervene with if the same industries had the pressure to do from the agencies who are there to act as a deterrent but as was previously stated upthread our own environment agency seems so stripped back now that it's not fit for purpose.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'd say that the use of fossil fuels, at this point in time, is far less avoidable than the consumption of animal flesh.

It needs urgent action, starting now. Without it, nothing that is done wrt agriculture will make any difference. It is still 80+% of the problem.

Just fixing the avoidable methane leaks from gas fields, something that could and should have been done years ago and which is criminally badly regulated, would reduce methane emissions by more than the entire contribution from meat even at the Poore and Nemecek-measured levels (which may well be too high).

 

[Jeff Robinson]

An example of some of the dark pathologies of animal consumption. Just insanity.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article273127820.html

 

[bcuster]

The fish have gained allies in Japan:

Arrests made after 'sushi terrorism' pranks outrage Japan and halt conveyor belts

A series of viral videos showing unhygienic behavior began popping up on social media late last year.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[bcuster]

An example of some of the dark pathologies of animal consumption. Just insanity.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article273127820.html

heartbreaking

 

[friedaweed]

An example of some of the dark pathologies of animal consumption. Just insanity.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article273127820.html

Looks more like poor parenting to me.

I feel sorry for the kid.

Petition signed.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Looks more like poor parenting to me.

I feel sorry for the kid.

Petition signed.

Partly, but the inflexible and insensitive (if not outright malevolent) stance of the fair and the excessive (and facially unlawful) mobilisation of state power in a contractual dispute are more disturbing in my view. At least the parents attempted to rectify their initial poor judgement.

 

[friedaweed]

Partly, but the inflexible and insensitive (if not outright malevolent) stance of the fair and the excessive (and facially unlawful) mobilisation of state power in a contractual dispute are more disturbing in my view. At least the parents attempted to rectify their initial poor judgement.

By stealing the animal?

That's not setting a good example for either of the kids.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

By stealing the animal?

That's not setting a good example for either of the kids.

Why not?

 

[friedaweed]

Why not?

Because the next time the child wants something she'll just steal it and end up in one of those Merkan jails

 

[littlebabyjesus]

By stealing the animal?

That's not setting a good example for either of the kids.

They offered to pay all the costs. The fact this was framed as theft and ended up as a police matter was due to the shitty attitude of the fair organisers. Not sure how much you can generalise from this story - the fair organisers are clearly total wankers.

 

[editor]

How fucking corrupt is the meat industry, making fat profits while the earth slides into irreversible climate change? These people are criminals and should be charged as such.

The award of an A-minus sustainability grade to the world’s biggest meat company has raised eyebrows and kicked off a debate about the rating system for environmental and social governance.

Brazilian meat company JBS has previously been linked to deforestation in the Amazon, where its slaughterhouses process beef from ranches carved out of the Amazon, Cerrado and other biomes. But in the latest Climate Change Report by the influential rating organisation CDP, the multinational got a grade of A- for its efforts to tackle climate change – up from B in the previous assessment – and was given a “leadership” status award.


The high score, which was based on self-reporting by JBS, has provoked incredulity. Twenty civil society groups are now calling on the London-based CDP (formerly the Carbon Disclosure Project) to strip JBS of its A-minus score amid accusations of greenwashing and misleading investors, supermarkets and consumers.

The company has a fast-growing carbon footprint that is now almost the size of the UK’s. Last year, a study by the Institute of Agriculture and Trade Policy advocacy group estimated the São Paulo-based company had processed 26.8 million cattle, 46.7 million pigs and 4.9 billion chickens, leading to a more than 50% surge in emissions over the previous five years to 421.6m metric tonnes.

Brazilian meat firm’s A- sustainability rating has campaigners up in arms

Environmentalists question high grade given to JBS and accuse it of deforestation in the Amazon and under-reporting emissions

www.theguardian.com

 

[friedaweed]

They offered to pay all the costs. The fact this was framed as theft and ended up as a police matter was due to the shitty attitude of the fair organisers. Not sure how much you can generalise from this story - the fair organisers are clearly total wankers.

I realise that and have no love for the nasty lady at the fair but..

I still think it's kid napping.

 

[editor]

Mmmm. Enjoy that tasty rotten sandwich!

A criminal investigation is under way into allegations that a rogue meat supplier falsely labelled huge quantities of foreign pork as British.
The Food Standards Agency is also looking into claims that the firm also mixed rotten pork with fresh meat.
It is understood the meat may have ended up in many UK supermarkets.

Farmers Weekly, which first reported the story said that the company was passing off industrial scale quantities of foreign pork as British.
It said this may have been in products up until at least 2020 and could have been included in many items such as ready meals, quiches and sandwiches sold in a number of UK supermarkets, with schools, hospitals, care homes and prisons also indirectly supplied.

Probe into meat 'falsely labelled' as British at supermarkets

The Food Standards Agency has launched an investigation into claims a supplier mislabelled meat.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[editor]

It's a filthy business alright

However, as the meat industry and its shills like to point out, livestock farming is only responsible for about 14.5% of greenhouse gas emissions (GHG) caused by humans.

...While animal agriculture may not be the single greatest cause of climate change, it has many other negative environmental effects.

Lagoons are only one way in which factory farms pollute their surroundings and harm their communities. Besides greenhouse gasses like carbon dioxide and methane, factory farms tend to pollute the air with ammonia, hydrogen sulfide, and particulate matter, the health risks of which include chronic lung disease, chronic bronchitis, and death. When animal waste and nitrates from fertilizers leach into public or private water supplies, they can bring pathogens like E. coli and listeria as well as increase the public risk of bladder, colon, kidney, and ovarian cancers.

And factory farming risks more than local communities. Cattle ranching is the primary cause for the deforestation of Brazil’s rainforests, which is an issue not only because of the forests’ role in offsetting carbon emissions, but also because it causes a significant loss of biodiversity. For this reason, among others, Guardian columnist George Monbiot writes in his new book, Regenesis: Feeding The World Without Devouring The Planet, “land use should be seen as perhaps the most important of all environmental issues.” Studies have shown that species are going extinct 1,000 times faster than in pre-human times. If deforestation in the Amazon continues, the rainforest could reach a tipping point at which its entire ecosystem could collapse. Scientists say that there’s already a mass extinction event underway, and that the “window of opportunity” to counteract it is “rapidly closing.”

Climate Change Isn’t The Only Environmental Issue. The Meat Industry Wants You To Think It Is.

Factory farming isn’t the top contributor to global warming, but it is the greatest cause of environmental destruction.

www.forbes.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I realise that and have no love for the nasty lady at the fair but..

I still think it's kid napping.

Not sure there's an appropriate smiley for that.

It's a total fucking failure of common sense is what it is, from both the fair and the police. But this is the US, which is a strangely legalistic country where authorities apply rules no matter how absurd the consequences. I would hope that something like that wouldn't happen here.

 

[friedaweed]

Mmmm. Enjoy that tasty rotten sandwich!

Probe into meat 'falsely labelled' as British at supermarkets

The Food Standards Agency has launched an investigation into claims a supplier mislabelled meat.

www.bbc.co.uk

From your own link...

Based on the investigation so far, the FSA said: "There is no indication that food is unsafe or there is an increased risk" to consumers.

Mmmm enjoy your apparently tasty casual racism. Do you actually read any of your thread bombs?

 

[editor]

From your own link...



Mmmm enjoy your apparently tasty casual racism.

Fuck your filthy, unfounded racism accusation. Don't ever respond to me again. And back you go on ignore, forever. Do the same to me please. Bye.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fuck your filthy, unfounded racism accusation. Don't ever respond to me again. And back you go on ignore, forever. Do the same to me please. Bye.

The racism accusation may be unfounded. But that link is profoundly uninteresting. Why did you post it? Why are you posting all these links without a proper commentary on what they are about?

You've probably still got me on ignore as well. And Funky Monks. And others who post here. WTF? WFT are you doing?

 

[editor]

I post up a link from the BBC referencing a Farmers Weekly article. And suddenly I'm accused of racism. Some people here have lost their fucking minds.

An in-depth investigation by Farmers Weekly has revealed that up until at least the end of 2020, a food manufacturer was passing off huge quantities of foreign pork – sometimes tens of thousands of tonnes a week – as British.

Schools, hospitals, care homes and prisons were also indirectly supplied, with one source alleging the most rotten meat would end up there.

Exclusive: Mass food fraud and safety scandal engulfs sector - Farmers Weekly

British farmers are being ripped off by an industrial-scale country-of-origin fraud in a scandal that has engulfed almost the entire food retail sector,

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[friedaweed]

I post up a link from the BBC referencing a Farmers Weekly article. And suddenly I'm accused of racism. Some people here have lost their fucking minds.

and equated 'Not British' as 'Rotten' like there must be something wrong with it.

Go fuck yourself. I'm bored with your accusations that anyone who doesn't agree with your mantra must have mental health problems or be a rabid meat eater. Play by the sword...

If you don't want anyone to reply to any of the shite you post up just post all your links to yourself in a PM.

I'll put who I want on my ignore list. You should stick to yours

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'it's a filthy business alright'

Is that a decent enough commentary?

Tbh I just gloss over your posts on this thread now. I stopped to look at this one and it says nothing of any importance.
Not defending anyone else's posts here, just pointing out the deficiency in yours.