burma - potential uprising?
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Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
when I rang, the hotel in dubai denied all knowledge
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
BBC news = shite.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article3015276.ece
The monk's tale: 'We cannot turn back'
By Rosalind Russell in Rangoon
Published: 01 October 2007
"We cannot turn back now. Whether it takes a month, a year or more, we will not stop." With his russet-red robes pulled around his knees, rocking back and forth on a low, wooden stool, the senior monk spoke quietly but determinedly.
Over the past few days, the monk has seen many of his fellow Buddhists rounded up and carted away as Burma's military regime brutally cracked down on anti-government protests, trying to suck any oxygen away from the flame of revolt. Pools of blood stain monastery doorways, memories linger of monks as young as 15 being clobbered over the head with truncheons and rifle butts.
But in the now-tranquil, tree-filled courtyard in central Rangoon, it is not of these atrocities that the monk, in his early sixties and wishing to remain anonymous, wants to speak. It is the atrocities which the Burmese people have suffered. The people are living under rulers busy enriching themselves with natural gas, timber, diamonds and rubies while spending less on health care per head than nearly any other country on earth. They are living in poverty more akin to sub-Saharan Africa than Asia.
"As monks, we see everything in society. We go everywhere, to ask for our food and we see how people live," he says. "We know that they give to us when they themselves do not have enough to eat, because there is no work and the costs of living are so high. We also see how the wealthy live. We see how everything is getting worse and worse." And that is why he is adamant that the fight must continue. "We have already lost too much and the people cannot continue to suffer as they do," he explained. "We knew well the risks before we started. It is up to us. We have to see this through to the end, whatever the end will be."
Inside the monastery, for now untouched by soldiers, a group of monks are gathered around a television, apparently glued to a gymnastics display. But on closer examination, the soundtrack is not a sporting commentary about back-flips and balance beam routines; it is in fact the Democratic Voice of Burma, broadcasting reports from exiled journalists in Oslo, Norway. In this way, the monks can monitor the current backlash against the junta and how the world is – or is not – responding but can quickly flick the covert soundtrack off should the military's prying eyes come calling.
Some of the monks are taking refuge in this temple now that their own temples have been blanketed in coils of barbed wire and sealed off from prayer. These precious religious sites now have the air of military camps. Gone is the scent of incense burning in worship, now it is the smell of stale cigarette butts, discarded by soldiers at the temple entrance.
Tin Shwe Maung (not his real name), a monk in his early twenties, recalled the moment that soldiers stormed into the gleaming Shwedagon Pagoda on Thursday. The government admits to a death toll of nine that day, but Western diplomats put it much higher.
"I was sitting with about 30 monks on the ground, praying at the place of the old brass Buddha. The police appeared very suddenly. There were definitely over 100, perhaps as many as 200. Carrying riot shields, truncheons and bayoneted rifles, they spread across the compound in front of us, some beating their shields, others aiming their guns," the young monk said.
"Without any sort of warning, they charged at us, firing over our heads with real bullets. Some of us got up and ran but they caught many monks and beat them with their truncheons and rifle butts. One monk they beat very badly, smashing his head. He was only 15 years old, he had just joined the monastery."
Another raid came after midnight, and more monks were carted off in police vans. "They are not in the normal prisons but in military and police camps. We hear that they are barely feeding the monks, nor are they allowing them contact with the outside," Tin Shwe continued. "I became a monk because of my love for peace and my love for Buddha. My heart is so full of sadness."
The monk's tale: 'We cannot turn back'
By Rosalind Russell in Rangoon
Published: 01 October 2007
"We cannot turn back now. Whether it takes a month, a year or more, we will not stop." With his russet-red robes pulled around his knees, rocking back and forth on a low, wooden stool, the senior monk spoke quietly but determinedly.
Over the past few days, the monk has seen many of his fellow Buddhists rounded up and carted away as Burma's military regime brutally cracked down on anti-government protests, trying to suck any oxygen away from the flame of revolt. Pools of blood stain monastery doorways, memories linger of monks as young as 15 being clobbered over the head with truncheons and rifle butts.
But in the now-tranquil, tree-filled courtyard in central Rangoon, it is not of these atrocities that the monk, in his early sixties and wishing to remain anonymous, wants to speak. It is the atrocities which the Burmese people have suffered. The people are living under rulers busy enriching themselves with natural gas, timber, diamonds and rubies while spending less on health care per head than nearly any other country on earth. They are living in poverty more akin to sub-Saharan Africa than Asia.
"As monks, we see everything in society. We go everywhere, to ask for our food and we see how people live," he says. "We know that they give to us when they themselves do not have enough to eat, because there is no work and the costs of living are so high. We also see how the wealthy live. We see how everything is getting worse and worse." And that is why he is adamant that the fight must continue. "We have already lost too much and the people cannot continue to suffer as they do," he explained. "We knew well the risks before we started. It is up to us. We have to see this through to the end, whatever the end will be."
Inside the monastery, for now untouched by soldiers, a group of monks are gathered around a television, apparently glued to a gymnastics display. But on closer examination, the soundtrack is not a sporting commentary about back-flips and balance beam routines; it is in fact the Democratic Voice of Burma, broadcasting reports from exiled journalists in Oslo, Norway. In this way, the monks can monitor the current backlash against the junta and how the world is – or is not – responding but can quickly flick the covert soundtrack off should the military's prying eyes come calling.
Some of the monks are taking refuge in this temple now that their own temples have been blanketed in coils of barbed wire and sealed off from prayer. These precious religious sites now have the air of military camps. Gone is the scent of incense burning in worship, now it is the smell of stale cigarette butts, discarded by soldiers at the temple entrance.
Tin Shwe Maung (not his real name), a monk in his early twenties, recalled the moment that soldiers stormed into the gleaming Shwedagon Pagoda on Thursday. The government admits to a death toll of nine that day, but Western diplomats put it much higher.
"I was sitting with about 30 monks on the ground, praying at the place of the old brass Buddha. The police appeared very suddenly. There were definitely over 100, perhaps as many as 200. Carrying riot shields, truncheons and bayoneted rifles, they spread across the compound in front of us, some beating their shields, others aiming their guns," the young monk said.
"Without any sort of warning, they charged at us, firing over our heads with real bullets. Some of us got up and ran but they caught many monks and beat them with their truncheons and rifle butts. One monk they beat very badly, smashing his head. He was only 15 years old, he had just joined the monastery."
Another raid came after midnight, and more monks were carted off in police vans. "They are not in the normal prisons but in military and police camps. We hear that they are barely feeding the monks, nor are they allowing them contact with the outside," Tin Shwe continued. "I became a monk because of my love for peace and my love for Buddha. My heart is so full of sadness."
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
the second I'd sayfrogwoman said:
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Question:
The soldiers and police are paid to be cunts, but they'd still be better off under democracy than they are under the Junta. Guessing that the barriers to mutiny are?:
1) Fear of the consequences from the Junta if they switch to the losing side?
2) Fear of the consequences if the opposition win and they are hated for their former role?
Is this sensible, and if so, what can the resistance do to encourage the paid thugs to turn their weapons on the Junta?
The soldiers and police are paid to be cunts, but they'd still be better off under democracy than they are under the Junta. Guessing that the barriers to mutiny are?:
1) Fear of the consequences from the Junta if they switch to the losing side?
2) Fear of the consequences if the opposition win and they are hated for their former role?
Is this sensible, and if so, what can the resistance do to encourage the paid thugs to turn their weapons on the Junta?
Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
From http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/
Here is an email, sent to a friend of mine from the sister of a Burmese monk:
Here is an email, sent to a friend of mine from the sister of a Burmese monk:
We just got phone call with our sister living in Yangon about a few hours ago.
We saw on BBC world, saying that 200 monks were arrested. The true picture is far worse!!!!!!!!!
For one instance, the monastery at an obscure neighborhood of Yangon, called Ngwe Kyar Yan (on Wei-za-yan-tar Road, Yangon) had been raided early this morning.
A troop of lone-tein (riot police comprised of paid thugs) protected by the military trucks, raided the monastery with 200 studying monks. They systematically ordered all the monks to line up and banged and crushed each one's head against the brick wall of the monastery. One by one, the peaceful, non resisting monks, fell to the ground, screaming in pain. Then, they tore off the red robes and threw them all in the military trucks (like rice bags) and took the bodies away.
The head monk of the monastery, was tied up in the middle of the monastery, tortured , bludgeoned, and later died the same day, today. Tens of thousands of people gathered outside the monastery, warded off by troops with bayoneted rifles, unable to help their helpless monks being slaughtered inside the monastery. Their every try to forge ahead was met with the bayonets.
When all is done, only 10 out of 200 remained alive, hiding in the monastery. Blood stained everywhere on the walls and floors of the monastery.
Please tell your audience of the full extent of the fate of the monks please please !!!!!!!!!!!!
'Arrested' is not enough expression. They have been bludgeoned to death!!!!!!
We saw on BBC world, saying that 200 monks were arrested. The true picture is far worse!!!!!!!!!
For one instance, the monastery at an obscure neighborhood of Yangon, called Ngwe Kyar Yan (on Wei-za-yan-tar Road, Yangon) had been raided early this morning.
A troop of lone-tein (riot police comprised of paid thugs) protected by the military trucks, raided the monastery with 200 studying monks. They systematically ordered all the monks to line up and banged and crushed each one's head against the brick wall of the monastery. One by one, the peaceful, non resisting monks, fell to the ground, screaming in pain. Then, they tore off the red robes and threw them all in the military trucks (like rice bags) and took the bodies away.
The head monk of the monastery, was tied up in the middle of the monastery, tortured , bludgeoned, and later died the same day, today. Tens of thousands of people gathered outside the monastery, warded off by troops with bayoneted rifles, unable to help their helpless monks being slaughtered inside the monastery. Their every try to forge ahead was met with the bayonets.
When all is done, only 10 out of 200 remained alive, hiding in the monastery. Blood stained everywhere on the walls and floors of the monastery.
Please tell your audience of the full extent of the fate of the monks please please !!!!!!!!!!!!
'Arrested' is not enough expression. They have been bludgeoned to death!!!!!!
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
My first bit of optimism in years and it now looks so misplaced...
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Wahey!
Burmese Bloggers without Borders
About Us
When certain significant events unfold unexpectedly, we can no longer sing only melodious tunes. Instead, we find ourselves gathering whatever strength we can find, to survive in the turbulence of historical flame. Regardless of where we may be, we are bounded by our love for Burma. Freedom is our sky. Justice is our life. Peace is our nature. We create this blog to share our genuine feelings about Burma and its path to freedom.
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression;
this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
-Article 19
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Blog launched Sept 30, 2007. Let's make sure it gets to the top of google. Link it everywhere you can.
Burmese Bloggers without Borders
About Us
When certain significant events unfold unexpectedly, we can no longer sing only melodious tunes. Instead, we find ourselves gathering whatever strength we can find, to survive in the turbulence of historical flame. Regardless of where we may be, we are bounded by our love for Burma. Freedom is our sky. Justice is our life. Peace is our nature. We create this blog to share our genuine feelings about Burma and its path to freedom.
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression;
this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
-Article 19
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Blog launched Sept 30, 2007. Let's make sure it gets to the top of google. Link it everywhere you can.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
International bloggers general strike call for 4th October, from BBWOB:
nternational Bloggers' Day for Burma on the 4th of October
Free-burma.org has called for the action named as "Free Burma" to support the peaceful protests in Burma by international bloggers. In their web site, it is said that the purpose is to set a sign for freedom and show the sympathy for the people who are fighting the cruel regime without weapons. The participating bloggers will have to refrain from posting to their blogs on October 4 and put up one Banner underlined with the words, Free Burma!"
nternational Bloggers' Day for Burma on the 4th of October
Free-burma.org has called for the action named as "Free Burma" to support the peaceful protests in Burma by international bloggers. In their web site, it is said that the purpose is to set a sign for freedom and show the sympathy for the people who are fighting the cruel regime without weapons. The participating bloggers will have to refrain from posting to their blogs on October 4 and put up one Banner underlined with the words, Free Burma!"
ska invita
back on the other side
frogwoman said:
if this is true - and i bet it is - then this is appauling. Tragic.
Does the slaughter of thousands of innocents give the UN a mandate to intervene? I know that the current argument that the dictorships repression is an internal matter (and therefore beyond the UN) seemed "fair", legally speaking.
Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
ska invita said:
Unfortunately not.. The Chinese would block any action taken by the UN security council. Unlike East Germany in 1989 when the Soviets refused to back the communist leadership of East Germany. The Chinese & to a lesser extent India, require the raw materials Burma produces. So expect further internal crack downs & the Burmese junta to continue enriching itself. The only way to get the Chinese to change their views would be to embarrass them at next years Olympics.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
China and Russia have a veto over any serious (UNSC) resolutions. They last used it in January 2007. It's why the UN almost never achieves anything serious against repressive regimes; between them the 5 permanent member states (US, China, Russia, France, UK) will be protecting just about any nasty regime there is. The US is the worst abuser (on behalf of Israel); China's only used it about 5 times IIRC. China and Russia both use theirs to protect the Junta.ska invita said:
The blogs down, but I copied the resistance ultimatum to China (and Russia) over to indymedia: https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/09/382294.html (9th addition if I counted right)
E2A: stuff on the veto here: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/veto/tables.htm
I lied; USSR/Russia is worse than the US!
Period China* France Britain US USSR/Russia Total
Total 5-6 18 32 82 123 261
frogwoman said:
F1 goes to china soon. An opportunity for some kind of protest here in the UK ?
Good question. A lot of people are making a lot of money from the present arrangement (just like in Sierra Leone during their civil war) and the inertia of that situation is very hard to overcome without (IMVHO) overwhelming external force or a collapse of internal support under the pressure of the regime's own brutality, because of a combination of both reasons you rightly bring up. Neither of which it is easy to do anything about whilst Russia and China resist military (or indeed major non-military) sanctions.ymu said:
In short, it's a dreadful situation. What it will do long-term to Burmese society that their rulers have so turned against the country's spiritual leaders in such horrific style, I dread to think.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Weapons, military training, a recently signed nuclear reactor deal, a bit of oil.frogwoman said:
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
and some agriculture and development deals IIRCpurves grundy said:
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
I read a reference to Israel being involved in 'battle strategy' training some time ago... can't find any trace of it now. Maybe a bad dream?
I moved to uni yesterday to start an MA I've been looking forward to for a year. Haven't done much pre-course reading of late, spending much of the past two weeks like many on this thread, refreshing Mizzima and Irrawaddy and discovering blogs brought to us by the committed and the brave. I keep thinking back to the previous weekend, hundreds of thousands on the streets believing that the country they've dreamed about for so many years may finally come about.
I've lost sight of the politics the last couple of days. I find myself full of a horrible black rage like I've never felt before. I keep losing myself in awful daydreams, smashing a brick into a soldiers face or confronting one of those Swann Arr Shin bastards swaggering about with a fucking iron bar on Rangoon's dark streets and stabbing the fucker. This is awful, I know it's awful and I don't know how to deal with it. And if I'm like this here, how much worse must it be for those in Burma? What sort of psychological impact must it have on you to be at close quarters to a crime of such unimaginable brutality? How can it be allowed to happen?
Fucking hell, if I have to ask such a pathetic question like that it's clear I've lost sight of the politics.
I moved to uni yesterday to start an MA I've been looking forward to for a year. Haven't done much pre-course reading of late, spending much of the past two weeks like many on this thread, refreshing Mizzima and Irrawaddy and discovering blogs brought to us by the committed and the brave. I keep thinking back to the previous weekend, hundreds of thousands on the streets believing that the country they've dreamed about for so many years may finally come about.
I've lost sight of the politics the last couple of days. I find myself full of a horrible black rage like I've never felt before. I keep losing myself in awful daydreams, smashing a brick into a soldiers face or confronting one of those Swann Arr Shin bastards swaggering about with a fucking iron bar on Rangoon's dark streets and stabbing the fucker. This is awful, I know it's awful and I don't know how to deal with it. And if I'm like this here, how much worse must it be for those in Burma? What sort of psychological impact must it have on you to be at close quarters to a crime of such unimaginable brutality? How can it be allowed to happen?
Fucking hell, if I have to ask such a pathetic question like that it's clear I've lost sight of the politics.
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