burma - potential uprising?

[purves grundy]

Ugh, cringeworthy weren't she?

 

[ymu]

"Look, they're so sweet and untechnologised and I'm so lovely I'm in tears."

 

[ymu]

Burma Agrees to See UN Envoy Amid Crackdown
Friday, 28 September 2007, 7:14 am
Press Release: VOA News

Burma Agrees to Accept UN Envoy Amid Condemnation for Violent Crackdown

Burma has agreed to accept a special envoy from the United Nations as leaders around the world call on the military government to halt its violent crackdown on protesters in Rangoon.


The United Nations Secretary General's office said Thursday that Burma has agreed to allow special envoy Ibrahim Gambari to visit the country.

In a statement read Thursday by press secretary Dana Perino, Mr. Bush urged the Burmese government not to use force and not to stand in the way of its people's desire for freedom.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0709/S00727.htm

 

[TAE]

U.S. imposes sanctions on Burma's leaders

At last something to agree with.

 

[frogwoman]

NAY PYI TAW, Sept 26 ? At about 12.30 pm today, a group of demonstrators numbering about 10,000 including monks and people came to the traffic point at the corner of Sule Pagoda Road and Anawrahta Street. The group included so-called monks, so-called "88" new generation students, ABSDF member terrorists and NLD members. They shouted demands in a crescendo.

The security forces near the Sule Pagoda using loudspeakers persuaded the crowd not to move forward and to disperse peacefully. However, the crowd mobbed the security forces in crescendo throwing stones and sticks at them and using catapults. The members of the security forces moved back to the second line from the first. They again persuaded the crowd not to use violence against them and to disperse peacefully. But the protesters refused to obey their orders and raided the security forces at the second line for the second time throwing stones at them and using catapults. At the same time the mob took two motorcycles of the security forces and burnt down them. They tried to grab the arms of security forces. On account of the unavoidable circumstances, the members of the security forces fired some shots employing the least force to disperse the mob. The protesters dispersed due to the shots. Two motorbikes were destroyed and eight members of the police force including two senior officials were injured.

Among the protesters, an unidentified man, 30, was killed. Han Lin Tun, son of U Hla Tun of No 359, Anawma Street, Ward 93, Dagon Seikkan Township, was wounded in the right thigh. Win Htut, 27, son of U Tun Myint of No 201, Room 301, Pagoda Road, Kamayut, in the right hip and Phyu Phyu Win, 47, No 19, Kyaunglan Street, Shwepyitha in the left breast and in the left arm. They are being treated at Yangon General Hospital.

 

[purves grundy]

Burma Agrees to See UN Envoy Amid Crackdown
Friday, 28 September 2007, 7:14 am
Press Release: VOA News

Burma Agrees to Accept UN Envoy Amid Condemnation for Violent Crackdown

Burma has agreed to accept a special envoy from the United Nations as leaders around the world call on the military government to halt its violent crackdown on protesters in Rangoon.


The United Nations Secretary General's office said Thursday that Burma has agreed to allow special envoy Ibrahim Gambari to visit the country.

In a statement read Thursday by press secretary Dana Perino, Mr. Bush urged the Burmese government not to use force and not to stand in the way of its people's desire for freedom.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0709/S00727.htm

Now Gambari, show us why you got the job. Do something. Don't let them fool you, ffs. Make demands.

 

[purves grundy]

Chicken shit Nyan Win is too cowardly to face his fellow foreign ministers at the ASEAN summit on the UN sidelines.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j8CE0CIHMQCPhWEKmUuT1h6Chk6Q

Call yourself a military man?

I'm happy to see ASEAN using very strong words, diplomatically speaking. 'Revulsion' is faurther than they've ever gone. Usually their statements are wearingly anodyne, "we will continue to work with the Burmese govt etc etc." This is great from ASEAN, thank fuck.

Wonder if that, plus Gambari on his way, will make a difference overnight and tomorrow. Doubtful, but it's extra pressure. Eventually something though, got to be.

What worries me more than anything is the junta's hope coming good: that the crackdown will work, the protesters will disperse, the world's media will move on, the need to survive will take over the people, meaningful political concessions will be stalled, and this will have all been in vain.

I mean I want to be optimistic as much as anyone, but it's a real possibility. And it's all so emotionally draining.

If someone wants to sketch out a more optimistic alternative scenario, please do so.

 

[fela fan]

I'm afraid i can't. The only way the people can gain their freedom is with international help. I expect the generals to simply continue the carnage until the people give up.

As for reports of nine dead, i would think that hundreds already dead is far more accurate. All the monks and people they stuff onto their trucks like animals being taken to the slaughterhouse... i'd think that they too will be or have been slaughtered.

All this stupid sanctions talk does absolutely fuck all. While people are being slaughtered in a modern day carnage, talk is useless. Talk about sanctions and olympics and the like is hot air.

I'm afraid this situation demonstrates the uselessness of those humans that get into leadership positions in their countries. If they had any nous and gall, they'd demand that the generals give up their power and hand over the country to the NLD, the rightful government.

I find it so sickening that the world knows what's going on, and all it fucking does is talk.

 

[fela fan]

"The Burmese people are tired of this diplomatic language, and the endless litany of diplomatic terms like “deeply concerned,” “closely watching,” “monitoring the situation,” “turning a new page,” and “forcefully urging dialogue.”

http://www.irrawaddy.org/multimedia.php?art_id=8718


I suggest posters take a look at this link and look at the photos from 1988. This time, due to international inaction, due to diplomatic rubbish language, it's going to be far worse. We are often told that 3000 were butchered back in 88, i'd suggest 10% of that already this week, and so far the generals have been reticent by their own sickeningly brutal standards. Today (friday) or tomorrow the real human carnage will begin because for 10 days while the burmese people and monks have been marching for peace and freedom the world has been blowing hot air.

The leaders of all countries concerned, ie all those in ASEAN, US, UK, EU, China, India are a bloody disgrace. If i were to pull two of them out of the hat to blame the most it would be Thailand and China.

But the US and UK have a lot to do. They long ago appointed themselves as the guardians of our world, yet when somebody needs guarding and protecting what are they doing? Rabbitting on about fucking sanctions and just blowing hot air. Useless gits. No problems at all about illegally invading iraq, but with burma, they just wring their hands.

Action is imperative. Inaction will lead to a few thousand less burmese people than a week ago and back to the normal life of military and thug rule in a beautiful country full of peaceful minded people.

The international community is a total disgrace so far. Can or will it redeem itself? Do our leaders have the guts to take the right action, even at this late hour? If not, then humanity as a whole belongs in the same gutter as those burmese generals who hijacked their country.

Quit fucking talking and do some doing.

 

[fela fan]

"Overnight, more monks were surrounded and attacked in at least three monasteries. One monk reportedly died and many were beaten. The hallways and rooms of one monastery were splattered with blood. An estimated 700 monks were taken away by security forces."

Imagine UK police and soldiers storming churches and beating up priests and vicars, killing them, and then loading them onto trucks and taking them away, probably to simply kill them all.

Imagine thai police doing this in the temples in thailand...


http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=8779

 

[fela fan]

http://www.irrawaddy.org/

 

[fela fan]

http://www.ko-htike.blogspot.com/

 

[fela fan]

Our burmese students (living in chiang mai, thailand) can no longer get hold of their families, and so have no idea of their safety or not.

This of course will apply to most burmese living in exile or out of their country in studies.

 

[fela fan]

I would like to point out to posters that the genocidal khymer rouge in cambodia were displaced out of power when vietnamese forces entered cambodia and rescued the cambodian people from their four years of utter cruelty and barbarism of the dictators in charge.

India could do the same thing for burma.

 

[ymu]

What worries me more than anything is the junta's hope coming good: that the crackdown will work, the protesters will disperse, the world's media will move on, the need to survive will take over the people, meaningful political concessions will be stalled, and this will have all been in vain.

I mean I want to be optimistic as much as anyone, but it's a real possibility. And it's all so emotionally draining.

If someone wants to sketch out a more optimistic alternative scenario, please do so.

Well, I'm a hopeless optimist or I'd never bother with any activism at all, so I'll have a bash.

Yesterday illustrated what is, in theory, powerful about peaceful protest in brutal regimes. If you gun down peaceful civilians you motivate others to join them from sheer anger. This so clearly happened yesterday - it was evident in the size of the protests sans monks and in the anger; the fists in the air, the jeering at the army's warning shots, the breaking up of bricks to throw in self-defence.

The first Palestinian Intifada was almost entirely non-violent and the leaders ordered that for a reason; bar a few stones and molotov cocktails, it was strikes and non-payment of tax and mothers' unions and marches. It worked, at least to the extent of forcing Israel to negotiate, however illusionary the "peace" that ensued. There's a reason Israel deported the non-violent leaders and later provoked the second intifada with a hail of a million bullets; they can't fight peaceful protesters with the world looking on.

The Burmese people know that they can win this time because news is getting out; they know the world is watching and that this gives them a measure of protection because there is a point where the world will have to act due to sheer popular demand.

They're not giving up. The army will be marching with the people long before they run out of bullets to shoot them with. The junta have already moved their families away; expect a helicopter out of their shiny new hideout within a few days.

 

[slaar]

I'm afraid i can't. The only way the people can gain their freedom is with international help. I expect the generals to simply continue the carnage until the people give up.

As for reports of nine dead, i would think that hundreds already dead is far more accurate. All the monks and people they stuff onto their trucks like animals being taken to the slaughterhouse... i'd think that they too will be or have been slaughtered.

All this stupid sanctions talk does absolutely fuck all. While people are being slaughtered in a modern day carnage, talk is useless. Talk about sanctions and olympics and the like is hot air.

I'm afraid this situation demonstrates the uselessness of those humans that get into leadership positions in their countries. If they had any nous and gall, they'd demand that the generals give up their power and hand over the country to the NLD, the rightful government.

I find it so sickening that the world knows what's going on, and all it fucking does is talk.

The US have imposed sanctions this morning. The British don't have much to work with as there's already no British investment in Burma according to the Foreign Secretary. The Chinese, Indians and Thais are benefiting greatly from oil and gas coming out of Burma, so it's no surprise they're reticent to call for military action. But you'd hardly suggest that the US invade Burma?

 

[slaar]

if they killed a french person could give sarchozy the excuse to do one
couple of battalions of the legion air dropped (there head cases and would jump at operation certain death) plus not being french citizens expendable
can't see the Burmese army standing
french do regimne change properly covered in win
and total oil cleans up
insane but so was bombing the rainbow warrior

Yeah, I reckon the French should do it too! Might piss the Chinese off a bit though.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Latest from Irrawaddy - some interesting bits of information - monks tooling up and urging protesters to do the same.

one thing has struck me and that's the lack of use of any real weapons from the protesters aside from rocks and sticks. What happened to the good old molotov cocktail?

Rangoon; around 1 p.m.—Thousands of protesters have confronted soldiers and security forces near Sule Pagoda in Rangoon, a witness said. He added that he did not see any monks in the crowd, but when one monk came to support the demonstration, the protesters cheered the monk and raised him above their heads with their bare hands. The witness said that protesters appeared incensed over the recent crackdown on the monks and raids on monasteries.

Rangoon, Midday—Demonstrators gathered in front of the Trader Hotel around noon on Friday to start a peaceful march, a source told The Irrawaddy. The demonstration will be lead by politicians elected in the 1990 election that was nullified by the junta. A source said they will try to talk to the soldiers and ask them not to shoot at peaceful demonstrators. A large number of soldiers have been positioned around Sule Pagoda.

Rangoon, Morning—About 10 fire trucks took up positions around Rangoon’s City Hall on Friday morning, and about 12 empty military trucks were positioned at Bandoola Park, according to witnesses. Authorities have also blocked a main road with barbed wire leading to Sule Pagoda. Authorities also positioned security forces at Kandawgyi Park and the Livestock and Fisheries office in Kyeemyindaing Township, witnesses said. According to sources in Rangoon, representatives elected in the 1990 election (nullified by authorities) plan to lead a demonstration march on Friday.

Chanmyathazi Township, Mandalay; Thursday, 7:30 p.m.—Military troops raided Pauk Myaing Monastery in Mandalay at about 7:30 p.m. on Thursday while about 50 monks were praying in front of a Buddha image, sources close to the monastery said. The monks were knelling in prayer when attacked, beaten with batons and kicked with boots before being taken away by troops. The source said numerous monks were bleeding from the beatings. Most of the monks were arrested, but a few managed to escape.

When news of the raid spread, monks from other local monasteries began collecting weapons such as knives, spears and slingshots in an effort to defend themselves from raiding troops, the source said. Monks at all monasteries were urged to stand 24-hour guard to protect the monasteries. The monks said they will defend themselves if security forces attack monasteries, and they urged the public to join them.

 

[ymu]

Yeah, I reckon the French should do it too! Might piss the Chinese off a bit though.

Turns out he was Japanese though; a powerful state in the region getting dragged in can't be bad, and there is a large activist movement in Japan campaigning on international injustices (frequent 20-30 strong activist delegations to Palestine, for example).

 

[Idris2002]

Yeah, I reckon the French should do it too! Might piss the Chinese off a bit though.

France has no bases in the region, surely, so they'd need help from the US/UK to do it. Which I can't see the US/UK providing.

The Burmese masses are on their own, unfortunately.

 

[poster342002]

I would like to point out to posters that the genocidal khymer rouge in cambodia were displaced out of power when vietnamese forces entered cambodia and rescued the cambodian people from their four years of utter cruelty and barbarism of the dictators in charge.

India could do the same thing for burma.

That would lead to war between India and China - with China calling on Pakistan for help, and Russia getting very twitchy about what was happening on it's own border with China. That would be the start of WW3, I'm serious.

 

[ymu]

France has no bases in the region, surely, so they'd need help from the US/UK to do it. Which I can't see the US/UK providing.

The Burmese masses are on their own, unfortunately.

France and China have had good diplomatic relationships for over 40 years, more than can be said for most countries in the West. They have more influence that the US - especially as US is an economic basket-case (China and India can pull the plug any time they feel like it) and the Euro-Zone is challenging US economic hegemony and the $ as an international unit of exchange. Much more politically acceptable for China to work with the French than USuk.

Whilst I only care about what happens in Burma right now, the implications for the rest of the world are potentially highly significant, depending on how things move on.

 

[Streathamite]

Burma Agrees to See UN Envoy Amid Crackdown
Friday, 28 September 2007, 7:14 am
Press Release: VOA News

Burma Agrees to Accept UN Envoy Amid Condemnation for Violent Crackdown

Burma has agreed to accept a special envoy from the United Nations as leaders around the world call on the military government to halt its violent crackdown on protesters in Rangoon.


The United Nations Secretary General's office said Thursday that Burma has agreed to allow special envoy Ibrahim Gambari to visit the country.

In a statement read Thursday by press secretary Dana Perino, Mr. Bush urged the Burmese government not to use force and not to stand in the way of its people's desire for freedom.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0709/S00727.htm

100*% buying time

 

[poster342002]

The army will be marching with the people long before they run out of bullets to shoot them with. The junta have already moved their families away; expect a helicopter out of their shiny new hideout within a few days.

I think this is increasingly likely. Burmese liberation will come from the Burmese people thmselves and not from our own hypocritical, opportunistic rulers in the west - whom everything they touch turns to shit, anyway.

 

[Streathamite]

I would like to point out to posters that the genocidal khymer rouge in cambodia were displaced out of power when vietnamese forces entered cambodia and rescued the cambodian people from their four years of utter cruelty and barbarism of the dictators in charge.

India could do the same thing for burma.

wel yeah, but rescuing the cambodians from the KR was not the vietnamese raison d'etre, it was preventing khmer expansionism

 

[ymu]

When news of the raid spread, monks from other local monasteries began collecting weapons such as knives, spears and slingshots in an effort to defend themselves from raiding troops, the source said. Monks at all monasteries were urged to stand 24-hour guard to protect the monasteries. The monks said they will defend themselves if security forces attack monasteries, and they urged the public to join them.

That's the ticket!

Most human beings are willing to die for a deeply just cause - unless they believe it would be a pointless sacrifice. The Burmese people know they can win this time, and that means they almost inevitably will.

 

[zoltan]

The fate of the monks in trucks has been hinted at - is this rumour or fact ?

 

[Belushi]

That's the ticket!

Most human beings are willing to die for a deeply just cause - unless they believe it would be a pointless sacrifice. The Burmese people know they can win this time, and that means they almost inevitably will.

I wish I were as optimistic as you

 

[purves grundy]

The fate of the monks in trucks has been hinted at - is this rumour or fact ?

Any mass killings of monks in custody would be unprecedented, but torture is highly likely, to state the obvious. They prefer to keep living examples of political prisoners.

Unprecedented, but not out of the realms of possibility by any means.

Everyone in Yangon is talking about this news:

Troops marching to Rangoon

There is an urgent report that Burmese troops from middle Burma has started to march towards Rangoon. The reported troops are from Central Command based in Taung Oo and South East Command. At this reporting, it is not clear if the troops are marching to reinforce or to challenge the troops in Rangoon for shooting the Buddhist monks.

Although it's nothing more than rumour right now.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Anyone going to the march Sunday?