burma - potential uprising?

[fela fan]

I read in the bangkok post today about fuel protests that have sporadically occurred over the last two weeks in burma. Just recently pro-junta civilians
attacked some monks who then attacked their houses in protest. I believe the military regime fear actions by monks (traditionally at the forefront of any kind of resistance) who are revered by the people. Burmese people have been seriously cowed since their last attempt to free themselves nearly 20 years ago.

Fuel has gone up 500%, and for some this means feeding themselves is becoming harder.

The article said also that no-one had as yet chanted suu kyi's name, that the protests are purely economic ones.

The upshot of the article then suggested that all is needed is one spark, and everyone will lose their fear, rise up and express all their pent up hatred for the military that has hijacked their country for so long (basically since they became free from the shackles of the british).

I couldn't find the article on the bkk post's website, but will look for any links i can find.

Anyway, do keep an eye out for this, because often a repressed people lose their fears when pressed to the very edge economically. Apart from north korea i can think of no country in the world where people's freedom and justice has been so thoroughly stolen by those with the guns and power.

As always, i hope these lovely people can somehow get their freedom back. They have just about no friends internationally, no one really gives a fuck about them. Yet the country is little more than a giant prison camp. And for some it is a gulag.

 

[fela fan]

Can posters in england click on this link to the results of my search on google and then click on the second link given, from the bangkok post. I tried and it won’t load for me, and there is no link on the main bangkok post website, despite me reading it in the paper version today. I just wonder if the thai military have been up to something in protection of their brothers!

http://www.google.co.th/search?hl=en&q=fuel+protests++burma&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Here’s one from the age in australia.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/World...enerals-defiant/2007/09/07/1188783469707.html

And from last month

http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2154218,00.html

 

[purves grundy]

I've resisted starting a thread on this because I wanted to wait out the situation to see how it developed.

The protests started small, about two weeks back. The first to protest were the brilliant 88 Generation of students. You hear a lot in the press about the NLD and Daw Suu Kyi, and rightly so, but the 88s are far more active and radical (as far as you can be active and radical in BUrma)

Massive arrests followed that first demo. Violence too - there are groups of criminals hired by the junta to congregate on streets where protests have been planned. They attacked the demonstraters (who were simply walking and holiding up signs saying stuff like 'prices are too high') with shovels, sharpened bamboo sticks... mental. The government calls them ''çivilians spontaneously defending their country''

The demos continued small - groups of 12 - 50 people, about that. People looked on, sometimes clapped, but for the most part kept their heads down. The demonstrators were outnumbered about three to one on most occasions by police and thugs.

And that's why I think these protests will go nowhere. Nearly everyone is terrified, solely concentrating on eking out a living. They remember 88, how it really changed nothing, and believe it's not worth it. All protests went to great length to be peaceful ones, not even referring to the govt in their slogans, but the junta is unafraid to use anything it can lay its hands on - hired thugs, hi-tech weaponry (from Russia and China), the law (they do it all 'by the book') - to crush this.

So tragic.

 

[fela fan]

And that's why I think these protests will go nowhere. Nearly everyone is terrified, solely concentrating on eking out a living. They remember 88, how it really changed nothing, and believe it's not worth it. All protests went to great length to be peaceful ones, not even referring to the govt in their slogans, but the junta is unafraid to use anything it can lay its hands on - hired thugs, hi-tech weaponry (from Russia and China), the law (they do it all 'by the book') - to crush this.

So tragic.

It is tragic. Mainly because the international community gives not a stuff about the burmese people. All that bullshit about spreading democracy, if they were sincere they'd've helped burma years ago.

I just think mate that when people face a situation where food supply starts to get threatened, then a point is reached where there is nothing to lose.

But if a spark does lead to spontaneous uprising (as happened in 88), then it will be curtains for x thousand burmese people. But that's the way of history i guess.

I recall getting really wound up in the early 90s when i read so much about events 20 years ago, in the days when the bangkok post and the nation kept the story alive so well. Even they nowadays don't print much about thailand's neighbour. The burmese people are virtually friendless.

My students have told me about the irregular water and electricity supply in rangoon. I add this because the really tragic thing is that because of a few hundred disgusting soldiers a fantastically resource rich country, with a wonderful people, is truly fucked. It's one of the worst humans stories in current times.

 

[winterinmoscow]

I'd love to say this is the end of the junta for Burma's wonderful people who have suffered enough, and the ethnic minorities enduring little more than genocide. You are right Fela, it is one of the worst huamn stories of modern times. Somehow though, I'm not sure this is it. I dunno what it's going to take for the junta to fall, would be interested in anyone else's ideas on this. I wish this was it though, wish it was

 

[TAE]

Just a note: There were some pro-democracy Burma protesters at the demos in Australia this week. They looked quite determined.

 

[fela fan]

Just a note: There were some pro-democracy Burma protesters at the demos in Australia this week. They looked quite determined.

Were they burmese or australian?

Bob Hawke, when he was australian prime minister did business with the generals, had no compunction at all in doing so.

 

[fela fan]

I'd love to say this is the end of the junta for Burma's wonderful people who have suffered enough, and the ethnic minorities enduring little more than genocide. You are right Fela, it is one of the worst huamn stories of modern times. Somehow though, I'm not sure this is it. I dunno what it's going to take for the junta to fall, would be interested in anyone else's ideas on this. I wish this was it though, wish it was

The last time they took the generals on, for a few days after there was the heady atmosphere of having beaten them. They literally were free. Then the bastards got their guns and stuff...

There's two ways for them to get their freedom. The first will be like the last time, a spark will set things off and the uprising will be countrywide. Thousands will pay the price though with their lives. It would be a sort of ousting along the lines of ceaucescu in romania, but with a lot of deaths.

The other way will be if the UN were to do its fucking job, or if you prefer, the international community suddenly gained enough compassion and empathy for the burmese people.

For me the latter will never happen. Far too selfish and inward looking.

 

[TAE]

Were they burmese or australian?

They looked Asian.

 

[TAE]

Dozens of protest groups were represented from mainstream Australians to those seeking democracy in Burma.

APEC demonstrators deliver on non-violent pledge (click on 'VIDEO')

 

[purves grundy]

The other way will be if the UN were to do its fucking job, or if you prefer, the international community suddenly gained enough compassion and empathy for the burmese people.

For me the latter will never happen. Far too selfish and inward looking.

Yeah, the nature of the UN Security Council, and the toothlessness of the new Human Rights Council , will continue to prevent the world doing its full duty towards Burma.

But we could be waiting years for an meaningful change in those institutions. Burma can't hold on for much longer. The general are at best reluctant of, and at worst - which is most of the time - downright contemptuous of, world opinion. The public are afraid. They might be suffering more than ever before, but their fear prevents them from rising up en masse.

There simply is no political space to organise any mass movement in Burma which would be needed to bring the people together, even less than Zimbabwe, another country that's going in the same direction as Burma. People get on with their business, heads down, we'll manage, out of fear of the consequences.

I can't see anything changing while the west maintains the same direction - no negotiation, isolation, sanctions etc It's morally wrong for us to watch a country literally dying before our eyes and not change our fucking policies to ones which have a better chance at work. Starving people towards a possible revolution is not a fucking moral policy.

 

[purves grundy]

 

[Dillinger4]

I will be keeping my eye on this.

What has happened in Burma is indeed one of the worst human stories of modern times.

 

[purves grundy]

So, it appears as though the latest protests have given the military the pretext they need to start closing down, or severely disrupting, ASSK's National League for Democracy party - linky. The generals have been after this for years.

I'd like to see some substantive discussion on the current situation in the Security Council, or at least let's hear what the UN's special advisor to Burma has to say. Pretty much fuck all so far.

 

[purves grundy]

Burmese government ranked worst in the world

And that's in the face of some stiff, far more reported, competition.

Bunch of fuckers.

 

[fela fan]

Burmese government ranked worst in the world

And that's in the face of some stiff, far more reported, competition.

Bunch of fuckers.

I was going through some old paper cuttings from the mid 90s yesterday and i'd forgotten that in those days there was always at least optimism that the generals would somehow get ousted. By the resistance. It seems to me that as the years go by they are more and more entrenched.

Outside help seems the only way the burmese can ever become free.

But unfortunately burma is on no-one's radar.

 

[purves grundy]

Following earlier events, it looks like many monks are ready to stage demonstrations - expect numbers of around 300-400, which is miniscule by most country's standards. In Burma though, this is massive.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=8622

The junta are shit scared of the monks. They have a following which is far greater than The Lady, but in recent years monasteries have remained silent over poverty and human rights abuses as senior abbots have been bought off by the military.

The next few days are going to be very interesting and, I fear, very bloody.

 

[veracity]

But unfortunately burma is on no-one's radar.

Very true, but I just can't understand why this is. What with a lot of public debate and news reporting on Zimbabwe why is it that so many people remain ignorant of what is happening in Burma and why is it that there is so little news about it?

I hope for the sake of the Burmese people that the days of the junta are numbered.

 

[purves grundy]

The junta, in its various guises, has deliberately isolated itself for decades and it's done this remarkably well. Which is one reason why sanctions will never work against this regime - they simply do not care about opprobrium and finger-wagging from the outside, nor poverty on the inside. You can't expect to get results from isolating a country if that country is already isolating itself.

I doubt the junta will fall. They'll put in place their new constitution, which will see them replacing their uniforms with suits and carrying on in government for years to come.

I'd love be proved wrong, though.

 

[fela fan]

Very true, but I just can't understand why this is. What with a lot of public debate and news reporting on Zimbabwe why is it that so many people remain ignorant of what is happening in Burma and why is it that there is so little news about it?

I hope for the sake of the Burmese people that the days of the junta are numbered.

Just taking british people for example, since urban is a british website. The media focus on zimbabwe in far greater measure than on burma. Hence you will have more people knowledgeable to a degree about the former. I would hazard a guess that zimbabwe had a residue of white people, farmers mostly, living in the country, whereas burma is simply populated by burmese people.

And white people are more important to the elites of britain and to the media of britain. We can see that when we look at the total disregard they both show towards all the iraqis that are either dying or being displaced due to our foreign policy actions.

In short, burmese people simply don't matter.

 

[veracity]

Sadly fela fan I think you are probably right. I also wonder whether the media/elite studiously ignoring the situation there has anything to do with our historical contribution to the situation.

I must admit I was pretty ignorant about the situation in Burma until I encountered it during study with the Open University. It was a shocking revelation to find out what had been, and still is, going on there.

 

[purves grundy]

I also wonder whether the media/elite studiously ignoring the situation there has anything to do with our historical contribution to the situation.

What have 'we' contributed to this situation?

 

[TAE]

Burma monks protest in Rangoon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7000269.stm

 

[purves grundy]

And not just in Yangon.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/

People are waiting to see what the response from the military is before they come out in support. Very wise move.

Edit: No they're not!

Pegu, Pegu Division—At least 1,500 monks took part in a peaceful demonstration in Pegu, 80 km north of Rangoon on Tuesday. One witness in Pegu told The Irrawaddy that thousands of people followed the monks and offered fresh water to them. The monks began from several different monasteries and marched to Pegu’s historical pagoda, Shwemawdaw, reciting the “Paritta Sutta” (a prayer for protection from evil or harm). The monks did not allow people to take photographs; two persons who had taken pictures had their cameras confiscated by the monks. The witness said that the Burmese authorities had not cracked down on the demonstration although security forces had appeared before the march carrying bamboo sticks and slingshots. The witness confirmed that the security guards had disappeared soon after and that Pegu was quiet as the market and shops had closed for the day.

 

[Barking_Mad]

bit of background here from the BBC which may or may not be useful.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6992923.stm

 

[purves grundy]

Monks protests have continued thorughout today. This is massive, wonderful news. http://www.irrawaddy.org/protests/BurmaProtests.php#07

However, as expected, the military have waited to see how widespread the protests have become - the answer: quite widespread - and have now issued a state of emergency. This is very worrying. They will kill any number of people - monks, activists, students, anybody - to maintain their grip on power. http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=8660

UN Sec Gen, leaders of western and ASEAN nations, now is the time to speak. Or better still, to act.

Incredible picture of a scene at Sule Paya today, people gathering to hear monks speak about the political situation. I was in exactly the same spot 4 weeks ago to hear a speech by a few activists, but all I found were 100 or so USDA cunts.

 

[fela fan]

There are rather horrible parallels with 1988. It seems certain to me that a whole load more bloodshed is just round the corner if the protests magnify.

A people can only be cowed for so long, they can only put their head down for so long. There is so much pent up feelings of the worst kind of injustice that can be meted out by humans in burma. As sweet as freedom is, the opposite must be like a terrible mental cancer.

It looks to me like these protests can't fizzle out now. I saw some footage yesterday on the tv and for every orange robe i saw normal clothing.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I take it there is little chance at all that any parts of the military will side with the population and the monks?

 

[fela fan]

I take it there is little chance at all that any parts of the military will side with the population and the monks?

There have always been more moderate generals, but it doesn't result in any favourable outcome for the people. What can they actually do?! The hardline ones have no qualms about shooting people dead. Last time there was footage and many stories about shooting into the back of ambulances and so on.

How so much do the burmese people deserve a good break in their lives. I just wonder what role the monks will have in this.

 

[purves grundy]

I take it there is little chance at all that any parts of the military will side with the population and the monks?

The junta is portrayed as a single entity, but there are shades of opinion in the military. Sometimes this simply comes down to grabbing a greater share of the goodies when the opportunity arises; on the other hand, there are senior military figures who despair at the path their country has taken and would like to see change. It was the former PM, Khin Nyunt, who ended Aung San Suu Kyi's previous house arrest in 2003 and allowed her to tour the country. But then, it was another senior military firgure, Aung Thaung, who was probably behind the brutal assault on ASSK's group in Depayin a couple of months after she was released. Now Khin Nyunt is under house arrest just like ASSK.

Many people are hoping for a split in the junta now they've lost the support of the monks. The problem is nobody knows what such a split will lead to. Are those around Sn Gen Than Shwe berating him for not stopping these marches? Or are they organising to oust him and set the country on a new path? Hardline crackdown or peaceful dialogue? I doubt it will be the latter, although I pray otherwise. It's impossible to second guess this lot.

And it wouldn't do any fucking harm if the UN or a country or two or a supranational group actually made a statement right now, urging the military to sit down and talk, or at the very least desist from any violent reaction. I haven't noticed any statement from any country or group as of yet.