British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Dystopiary]

No reason that you can't bring it back in - there will be issues of retrospectivity with any existing cases but you would just apply it prospectively, hoping never to have to use it.

I see. Well nah, I can think of a bunch of reasons.

 

[Dystopiary]

He's in the majority of our fellow brits on this. Which is pretty scary tbh. About 3/4 of conservative and leave voters agree the death penalty should come back.

Should the death penalty be reintroduced for terrorist murder acts?

Would you support or oppose the reintroduction of the death penalty for the following crimes? Murder as part of a terrorist act

yougov.co.uk

Don't want to be accused of getting into the dreaded identity politics here, but it would be interesting to see the age demographic of those death-penalty wanters.

 

[bimble]

Don't want to be accused of getting into the dreaded identity politics here, but it would be interesting to see the age demographic of those death-penalty wanters.

You can play with the graph , left hand side. I find that stuff fun too.

 

[Spymaster]

Not sure that personalising it this way is very helpful, especially since, if I remember correctly, you've fairly recently acquired dual nationality/citizenship yourself
On the general point, I agree that dual nationality/citizenship is mostly an advantage rather than a disadvantage, and if individuals are concerned that holding it might put them at a disadvantage, they're mostly able to renounce it.

None of that really applies to the case this thread is ostensibly about though.

No idea what you're talking about by personalising anything. I've been a dual national all my life on the basis of js.

And it's absolutely what this latest episode of the thread has been about.

 

[Dystopiary]

You can play with the graph , left hand side. I find that stuff fun too.

Great, thanks.

 

[teqniq]

Treason - the worst crime available - it requires a special penalty

Fucking laughable. The worst crime? I feel that murder is worse and I do not advocate the death penalty. Beyond reasonable doubt etc....

 

[Raheem]

Treason - the worst crime available - it requires a special penalty

Legally speaking, I believe it's fairly clear-cut that she didn't commit treason.

 

[bimble]

treason lol. "disloyal to the crown" = off with their heads. Sounds fine.

 

[Dystopiary]

Yep, noticable age difference.

 

[Diamond]

Legally speaking, I believe it's fairly clear-cut that she didn't commit treason.

The case against her wouldn't be strong and she would likely be acquitted - that's why you would have to do it with a bunch of others (of which there may be quite a number), some of whom at least might be convicted.

The reason that they stripped her of her citizenship is surely that they aren't confident of gaining a conviction on any offence. The thing is, that's not a very good reason to do it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think there are any good answers to this one but, IMV, stripping her of her citizenship was not a good move and is not, very generally speaking, a good route forwards.

Ultimately, I think probably the best route forwards would be to make a show of repatriating all of our former IS fighters/sympathisers and then to put as many as possible on trial for treason in a very public way. Perhaps even consider implementing the death penalty or, at the very least, whole life tariffs.

That said, I do think the most likely outcome re: Begum is that she would be repatriated, would probably escape any harsh punishment (perhaps a handful of years in some relatively comfortable women's prison) and then would be a major cause celebre for certain sections of British political Islam. But that gets at something much, much deeper than this case - a genuine clash of civilizational outlooks which is likely to play out at many different levels over the course of rest of our lives. Multiculturalism/pluralism sometimes fails and this is an area where it is in serious trouble.

Peeking into your thoughts is often like lifting up a stone and seeing what's under it. Only everything you find under a stone is useful

 

[Dystopiary]

Fuck the king. There, Diamond - some treason. Abolish borders too, united kingdom my arse.

 

[Pickman's model]

He's in the majority of our fellow brits on this. Which is pretty scary tbh. About 3/4 of conservative and leave voters agree the death penalty should come back.

Should the death penalty be reintroduced for terrorist murder acts?

Would you support or oppose the reintroduction of the death penalty for the following crimes? Murder as part of a terrorist act

yougov.co.uk

That's fine, do them all for accessory to terrorism and execute the more recalcitrant mps

 

[Pickman's model]

Fuck the king. There, Diamond - some treason. Abolish borders too, united kingdom my arse.

Let's kill the king

 

[Diamond]

Fucking laughable. The worst crime? I feel that murder is worse and I do not advocate the death penalty. Beyond reasonable doubt etc....

Murder is worse than plotting against the state?

The person who, for the sake of argument, murders their spouse is worse than the person who plans to usurp the state, introduce civil war?

 

[B.I.G]

Fucking laughable. The worst crime? I feel that murder is worse and I do not advocate the death penalty. Beyond reasonable doubt etc....

Laughable was when you posted a obvious spoof tbf.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[teqniq]

Murder is worse than plotting against the state?

The person who, for the sake of argument, murders their spouse is worse than the person who plans to usurp the state, introduce civil war?

Yup

 

[Pickman's model]

Murder is worse than plotting against the state?

The person who, for the sake of argument, murders their spouse is worse than the person who plans to usurp the state, introduce civil war?

When we had the English civil war it was famously king Charles who declared it at iirc newark.

 

[teqniq]

Laughable was when you posted a obvious spoof tbf.

Yes that too was laughable in retrospect but avocating the death penalty for treason? Oh dear. Grow the fuck up.

 

[Pickman's model]

Laughable was when you posted a obvious spoof tbf.

Had to be obvious as anything else would baffle you

 

[LDC]

This thread is absolutely spectactular!

I thought it had reached the highest level (deepest depths...?) a few pages back, but throwing in the death pentalty for treason just takes it to a new level! Good work all.

 

[Diamond]

Lots of people here in favour of civil war vastly overrating how much fun that is...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Being vaguely serious here, I believe this was the point made earlier by Rob Ray. There are those in power who would like to criminalise certain strands of political thought, such as political thought that advocates the end of the nation state. At root, that is a criminalisation of the mere imagining of different ways to organise ourselves.

If you think that sounds a bit ott, here's a spokesperson for the Met Police's counter terrorist focus desk, speaking back in 2011 on the subject of reporting on your neighbours:

Anarchism is a political philosophy which considers the state undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful, and instead promotes a stateless society, or anarchy. Any information relating to anarchists should be reported to your local police.

Anarchists should be reported, advises Westminster anti-terror police

 

[B.I.G]

Yes that too was laughable in retrospect but avocating the death penalty for treason? Oh dear. Grow the fuck up.

I didn’t advocate it or even say it was a good idea.

I’m against the death penalty.

Another one on this thread that jumps to conclusions about others.

 

[Pickman's model]

Lots of people here in favour of civil war vastly overrating how much fun that is...

What's been your experience of civil war?

 

[teqniq]

I didn’t advocate it or even say it was a good idea.

I’m against the death penalty.

Another one on this thread that jumps to conclusions about others.

I never said you did.

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn’t advocate it or even say it was a good idea.

I’m against the death penalty.

Another one on this thread that jumps to conclusions about others.

You missed 'I'm' out of your third sentence - in error, no doubt

 

[B.I.G]

I never said you did.

Odd that you quoted my post while instructing a now unknown person to “grow the fuck up” then.

 

[teqniq]

Odd that you quoted my post while instructing a now unknown person to “grow the fuck up” then.

Not particularly as you seemed to be using it as an opportunity for cheap shots