Of course and it's been ovvious from the moment leaving with no deal / clean break rhetoric from the likes of Rees-mogg came to the fore. The clok of plucky Britiania, we used to rule the waves, doing deals, Britain! crap being the only way you could sell it to normal people. These arseholes now claiming the Brexit people voted for is their's. "People voted for pain." A few did, the foaming, self delusional bitter little Englander types but it's not what I heard from anyone I know who voted out or was sympathetic to it.
BREXIT Crunch time (part 38) WTF is going to happen next?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
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Of course and it's been ovvious from the moment leaving with no deal / clean break rhetoric from the likes of Rees-mogg came to the fore. The clok of plucky Britiania, we used to rule the waves, doing deals, Britain! crap being the only way you could sell it to normal people. These arseholes now claiming the Brexit people voted for is their's. "People voted for pain." A few did, the foaming, self delusional bitter little Englander types but it's not what I heard from anyone I know who voted out or was sympathetic to it.
newbie
undisambiguated
I haven't said anything about trade deals.
If there was a consensus available that would or could satisfy a reasonable majority of the public it would have been found by now. No-one protesting in Parliament Sq has a sign saying "We want a fudge and we want in now". They're saying either "Leave means Leave" or "We already have the best deal".
alsoknownas
some bloke
That is true, but isn't also true to say that resisting political pressure from Germany and France is a large part of why EFTA exists in the first place?
Everyone else just wants it over though.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Is this confirmed? Pretty significant switch from Labour if so as it's not what they promised in their manifesto (of course they lost so no need to stick to manifesto, but even still...)
Reported across multiple news sources this afternoon. It may have changed since I last looked mind...
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Brexit: Labour to support Norway-style EU proposal Labour to support Norway-style proposal
andysays
Love and solidarity
At least one Labour MP looks to be planning to defy the whip and vote against
If it does pass the indicative vote tonight and somehow goes on to be put to a substantive vote, is there a real chance of the Tory party being split? I'd like to think so, but it may just be wishful thinking...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Um, Kevin Barron, you're not in government. 
It's a novel idea - that parties should stick rigidly to the manifestoes of the previous election, even if they lose. Can we go back to the 1983 Labour manifesto, please.
It's a novel idea - that parties should stick rigidly to the manifestoes of the previous election, even if they lose. Can we go back to the 1983 Labour manifesto, please.
There will be a few break the whip, as ever. It's still significant they're whipping for it though, and it will mean bigger numbers than last week.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Slightly odd article. Headline is definitive but standfirst waters that down to say "Labour MPs are being urged to back a plan to keep the UK in a Norway-style relationship with the EU" and then doesn't say who is doing the urging.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
If Common Market 2.0 gets a majority in parliament, is there a significant risk that the ERG and associated nutters will switch to supporting May's deal in order to fend it off? Might they end up giving TM what she wants...?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Um, Kevin Barron, you're not in government.
It's a novel idea - that parties should stick rigidly to the manifestoes of the previous election, even if they lose. Can we go back to the 1983 Labour manifesto, please.
You know that included withdrawal from the EEC right?
There's a risk of this, yeah.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
So, in a way, the worst thing that can happen for those supporting 2.0 is that they win the indicative vote? Could even be that May wants them to win, but with less than 50% of MPs voting for it, in order to attract the 'hard to reach' erg arses.
There's a good chance that both of the sentences above are wrong, but given the lunacy of where we are at, 'might be true'.
the only way anything gets through is by taking it to the edge. but yes, if the balance of interests goes the other way tomorrow, then winning tonight doesn't mean much. But it also means that in the breach, May has the numbers.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Today is just indicative and non-binding but the business motion (just passed in the face of Government objection) gives MPs a day on Wednesday in which they are in control of business. In theory they could use Wednesday to pass legislation requiring May to take whatever is passed today to the EU. If she refuses then there would be a GE.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yes, the one thing she's been good at is keeping it as 'my deal vs x bad thing'. There's all sorts of chat about her being emotionally unable to engage, chat, work something out, but it has also been strategic. It's just about the only line that holds the tory party together and delivers some kind (dogs breakfast) brexit. She really has run out of road now, though I still think there's an outside chance she'll get it through. Probably depends how remainy the DUP have become in the last 3 days.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes I do. Without a referendum too. Almost like there's more to politics than brexit.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Could see some pro-EU Tories who've backed it up until now not bothering though.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Plus DUP intransigence over her deal.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF that has been her greatest failure, not a thing that she is good at.
I don't want to summon up the spirits of the dead, but Thatcher would have looked at May's problem and seen that the only way out of this was her confronting them with the choice of her deal or no Brexit; the ERG are the people who need to be threatened after all and no Brexit is the only thing she can threaten them with. This policy of appeasing them whilst threatening the rest with something her rebels actively want has been idiocy.
No Brexit isn't really a threat she can follow through on though.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
She's no good at either threatening or glad handing. Her strategy has been one of holding a knife to her party's throat and now her own. It's shit but it's also got her to now. Failing now later rather than earlier perhaps.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Big up to the 'naked' protesters in the public gallery. 
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Oh happy fucking day if the Tories had to swallow that one. It could detonate the fuckers.
For sure they’d probably manage some way of ignoring it, but god they would squirm.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Yep, but the ways out are diminishing though. If Parliament chooses a customs union it won’t ever choose May’s ‘deal’ as it is. That leaves no deal (no), a new referendum or a General Election. That’s a whole load of not what the Government wants.
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