BREXIT Crunch time (part 38) WTF is going to happen next?

[Pickman's model]

I reckon she's just given up and tbh, I'm surprised she took the wretched job on in the first place. I doubt anyone else from any party would have done any better but fuck me, this was a poisoned chalice! If I were her now I'd do my best to fuck it all up for the next mug.

I'd have done it much better

 

[Argonia]

Hold on so the vote tomorrow isn't meaningful? Does that mean it's meaningless?

 

[redsquirrel]

The idea we could be bound by economic laws that don’t impinge on politics is risible frankly.

Indeed. It is easy to see why politicians, both UK and EU, claim to make such a division but it should be rejected.

 

[mx wcfc]

 

[mx wcfc]

Oh well.

 

[Ranbay]

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[ozu]

Looks like no chance of this passing, DUP will vote against. Hardly will convince Labour either in the knowledge after May 22nd Boris or some other hard Brexiter will be at the helm and negotiating the political declaration.

 

[mojo pixy]

it was a comment on the possibility of a long extension more than taking issue with you. when i was little i thought that people like heath and wilson and callaghan and thatcher had some special knowledge or special qualities which made them better able to run the country than us mere electors. but as i've aged i've come to realise that even with their civil servants and intelligence services and (predominantly) oxbridge education, a bunch of ignorant stupid wankers run this country. you could go to public houses or bookmakers right now, drag 650 people out of them, tell them they are now parliamentarians, and they'd do a better job befuddled or apathetic as they may be, than the useless fucking numpties in westminster.

This is why I reckon, if we're going to have a parliament, it should be picked by lottery, like juries.

 

[sheothebudworths]

The HoC doesn’t usually sit on Fridays. As they’d specially convened it I suppose they had to give it something to do.

Time and a half, for a Friday?

 

[andysays]

BBC reporting some historian calling the current situation the biggest constitutional crisis since 1688

 

[Steel Icarus]

BBC reporting some historian calling the current situation the biggest constitutional crisis since 1688

What was the crisis in 1688?

 

[Supine]

Speculation that the vote tomorrow is part of a plan by Maybot to run us over the cliff

What is Theresa May's Brexit Plan B?

 

[DotCommunist]

What was the crisis in 1688?

Glorious Revolution - Wikipedia

 

[andysays]

What was the crisis in 1688?

The 'Glorious Revolution' establishing parliament's supremacy over the monarch, as Sasaferrato no doubt remembers...

 

[DexterTCN]

The EU extended the date to April 12, it was fuck all to do with WM.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Speculation that the vote tomorrow is part of a plan by Maybot to run us over the cliff

What is Theresa May's Brexit Plan B?

Really? That vote in particular? We’ve had a few

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Speculation that the vote tomorrow is part of a plan by Maybot to run us over the cliff

What is Theresa May's Brexit Plan B?

I reckon adding the 6th option out of 8 in the last vote was the *pivotal* moment in said plan.

 

[Cid]

BBC reporting some historian calling the current situation the biggest constitutional crisis since 1688

Which historian?

Because they're full of shit.

e2a: actually I'm kind of thinking about it in wider brexit terms... in terms of the operation of parliament. Yeah... Hmm.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can see this appealing to many. But do you believe you can separate the "economic" from the "political" union?

No. I think that there is such a thing as a political economy and the two cannot be separated. However, there are certain aspects of the set up in which the UK withdraws from certain decision-making bodies and is also freed from certain of the decisions of those bodies as a result, while remaining in a very close economic (and in many ways political) union with them. That is basically the position of the likes of Norway and Switzerland now.

The idea that the UK could have a real political independence from the rest of Europe is not realistic. It's as unrealistic as the idea that Scotland could be truly independent from the rest of Britain. Independence is a relative term. That's one of the basic lies of simplistic 'let's take back control' slogans.

 

[SpackleFrog]

No. I think that there is such a thing as a political economy and the two cannot be separated. However, there are certain aspects of the set up in which the UK withdraws from certain decision-making bodies and is also freed from certain of the decisions of those bodies as a result, while remaining in a very close economic (and in many ways political) union with them. That is basically the position of the likes of Norway and Switzerland now.

The idea that the UK could have a real political independence from the rest of Europe is not realistic. It's as unrealistic as the idea that Scotland could be truly independent from the rest of Britain. Independence is a relative term. That's one of the basic lies of simplistic 'let's take back control' slogans.

"If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain.

England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.

England would still rule you to your ruin, even while your lips offered hypocritical homage at the shrine of that Freedom whose cause you had betrayed."

James Connolly, 1897.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Some journos claiming that May will call a general election if her deal gets voted down tomorrow.

Downing Street: General Election will be called if Theresa May's Brexit deal is voted down for third time on Friday | Evolve Politics

may well be clickbait based on summit or nothing though.

However - i still think a General Election is where we are heading - but i would imagine the tories would want to replace May first.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Some journos claiming that May will call a general election if her deal gets voted down tomorrow.

Downing Street: General Election will be called if Theresa May's Brexit deal is voted down for third time on Friday | Evolve Politics

may well be clickbait based on summit or nothing though.

However - i still think a General Election is where we are heading - but i would imagine the tories would want to replace May first.

If Downing street were briefing this - which they might in a last ditch attempt to get the DUP onside - then they definitely wouldn't brief it to Evolve.

But I am really worried she'll go tomorrow and I'll lose me bet :/

 

[Kaka Tim]

I cant see her lasting much longer - but she wont go unless pushed, so your bet is probably safe. I reckon shes there for at least another 48 hours. maybe even a week.

 

[andysays]

Which historian?

Because they're full of shit.

e2a: actually I'm kind of thinking about it in wider brexit terms... in terms of the operation of parliament. Yeah... Hmm.

The historian and vice-chancellor of the University of Buckingham, Sir Anthony Seldon, said he believed Brexit was the UK's biggest constitutional crisis since 1688, when the Glorious Revolution began. That revolution ultimately established the supremacy of Parliament over the British monarchy.

Sir Anthony compared Brexit to previous crises, such as the Suez crisis in 1956, but then there was only "a week or two of real crisis", he said. "This hasn't gone on for a week," Sir Anthony said. "It's gone on for three years." Asked if the current situation was Suez on steroids, he replied: "Absolutely, and worse."

Sir Anthony added: "The real essence of the problem is that the country voted to leave, but only just - another day it could have gone the other way. "But these people here in Parliament predominantly want to stay. "So is Britain a popular democracy, where the people decide the future, or is it these guys here, who are the representatives of the people who voted in general elections? And that's really the nub of the problem."

 

[Sprocket.]

What was the crisis in 1688?

Protestant vs Catholic. Shocker!

 

[danny la rouge]

BBC reporting some historian calling the current situation the biggest constitutional crisis since 1688

Considering the length of time it has chuntered on, and the parliamentary hours spent without anyone being any wiser about how it will resolve itself, if at all, and that Scotland is on the brink of indyref2, and who knows what will be the knock on in NI, that’s probably a fair comment.

I can’t think of any constitutional crisis to compare since the Glorious Revolution/Crown and Parliament Act.

(Yes, there’s glee there. Of course there is).

 

[Poi E]

Another problem with having no written constitution. You have no idea how unstable the foundations of your polity are.

 

[Pickman's model]

Considering the length of time it has chuntered on, and the parliamentary hours spent without anyone being any wiser about how it will resolve itself, if at all, and that Scotland is on the brink of indyref2, and who knows what will be the knock on in NI, that’s probably a fair comment.

I can’t think of any constitutional crisis to compare since the Glorious Revolution/Crown and Parliament Act.

(Yes, there’s glee there. Of course there is).

Curragh mutiny

 

[danny la rouge]

Curragh mutiny

In that army officers went against the government? Yes, that’s a candidate. Wouldn’t downplay its significance.

 

[Pickman's model]

In that army officers went against the government? Yes, that’s a candidate. Wouldn’t downplay its significance.

Went against the govt and won