BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff

[Spymaster]

You’re just exposing your own lack of understanding; it is nonsense to cast their pay cut for new staff as an “ commitment to the living wage”. The So-called NLW is merely a rebranded (over23) NMW. Any “lack of commitment “ to that would result in BD breaking employment law. Suggest you read up on this.

Once again, Broggers.

I can understand your reluctance to give a straight answer to this but nevertheless, it's important for your learning process.

Are BD still paying the living wage to all of their staff including new starters?

Yes or no?

 

[Chz]

This is exactly the sort of shitstorm this government wanted when they rebranded the minimum wage to the New Living Wage. Stop encouraging them. You both know what the other means.

 

[Spymaster]

This is exactly the sort of shitstorm this government wanted when they rebranded the minimum wage to the New Living Wage. Stop encouraging them. You both know what the other means.

It's quite important in the context of this thread though.

It was clearly stated by hitmouse that BD have scrapped the living wage:

At our union meeting today, a member was asking whether Brewdog scrapping the living wage could be a sign that other employers, such as ours, might be about to do the same.

They've done no such thing! Whilst we are used to this type of ignorance on this thread from people like Broggers and Eggie, it's important that people who we usually credit with slightly more intelligence, are enlightened.

 

[xenon]

This is exactly the sort of shitstorm this government wanted when they rebranded the minimum wage to the New Living Wage. Stop encouraging them. You both know what the other means.

Not interested in defending Brewdog but the National Living Wage and Minimum Wage are different according to the govt's own website.


And more here:

Living Wage vs Minimum Wage - What's the Difference? | Crunch

The Conservatives' 'National Living Wage' is not the same as the one proposed by the Living Wage Foundation. We look at the differences.

www.crunch.co.uk

 

[xenon]

I'm not arguing it's high enough but saying they're the same is wrong.
The National Minimum Wage is the minimum pay per hour almost all workers are entitled to. The National Living Wage is higher than the National Minimum Wage - workers get it if they’re over 23.

The National Minimum Wage and Living Wage

Who's entitled to the minimum wage, what's included when working out the minimum wage, and what happens if there's a dispute.

www.gov.uk

 

[Spymaster]

I'm not arguing it's high enough but saying they're the same is wrong.
The National Minimum Wage is the minimum pay per hour almost all workers are entitled to. The National Living Wage is higher than the National Minimum Wage - workers get it if they’re over 23.

The National Minimum Wage and Living Wage

Who's entitled to the minimum wage, what's included when working out the minimum wage, and what happens if there's a dispute.

www.gov.uk

And the Real Living Wage (which BD actually withdrew from) is different again.

This has been explained in very simple terms before. Broggers, and the people who are liking his posts, are having an exceptionally dim day today. Let's hope they're not driving.

 

[Chz]

I'm still amused that by the government's own twisted terminology, under-25s don't deserve to live off their earnings.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm still amused that by the government's own twisted terminology, under-25s don't deserve to live off their earnings.

I really don’t understand what the thinking is behind us. It’s not as if living expenses are cheaper for under 25 is it?

 

[Elpenor]

Next up, Brewdog will announce their commitment to paying VAT, National Insurance and business rates

 

[Spymaster]

I'm still amused that by the government's own twisted terminology, under-25s don't deserve to live off their earnings.

Fortunately for those lucky enough to have been Brewdog employees for a while, they will be on quite a bit more.

 

[Spymaster]

This is a sweet human interest story.

James and Georgia are moving in together.

 

[Elpenor]

This is a sweet human interest story.

James and Georgia are moving in together.

Think you meant to post this on Tattle

 

[Spymaster]

Think you meant to post this on Tattle

Don’t know what that is. I’m sure that everyone here will want to wish them all the best though.

 

[Elpenor]

Don’t know what that is. I’m sure that everyone here will want to wish them all the best though.

Perhaps you could put together one of your collections to send a housewarming gift from urban

 

[Spymaster]

Perhaps you could put together one of your collections to send a housewarming gift from urban

That’s a very kind idea.

Anyway, where’s Broggers? He’s gone all quiet again.

He should post something for whatsit to like.

 

[brogdale]

I'm not arguing it's high enough but saying they're the same is wrong.
The National Minimum Wage is the minimum pay per hour almost all workers are entitled to. The National Living Wage is higher than the National Minimum Wage - workers get it if they’re over 23.

The National Minimum Wage and Living Wage

Who's entitled to the minimum wage, what's included when working out the minimum wage, and what happens if there's a dispute.

www.gov.uk

Yes the NMW rates & the NLW are different hourly pay rates, but they are all age-determined minimum statutory hourly rates that an employer can pay. The higher age (23YO+) NMW was cynically rebranded as the NLW in 2016 (then for 25YO+), that's all. This is why to claim that BD are "committed" to the living wage is, at best, nonsense and at worst inaccurate trolling.

 

[hitmouse]

Like Broggers, you’re not understanding what you’re talking about. The living wage is not the same as the Real Living Wage.

Pretty much nobody in the hospitality industry pays the Real Living Wage.

The fact that BD did for many years is very much to their credit.

Genius.

"Are you pissing on my leg?"
"What? No, it's just a bit rainy today."
"Eh? I'm pretty sure that's piss."
"Oh, you're just getting confused. Rain isn't the same thing as the Real Rain that comes out of the sky. But this is definitely rain, even if it's not the same as Real Rain."

I understand perfectly what I'm talking about, my employer is a living wage employer (as a result of workers previously organising to demand it, not out of the goodness of their hearts or anything), and our member was worried about them withdrawing from it, which as we discussed was unlikely. At no point did anyone go "well actually did you know that in 2016 George Osbourne rebranded the minimum wage as the National Living Wage?", because that would have been completely irrelevant and unhelpful.

Not interested in defending Brewdog but the National Living Wage and Minimum Wage are different according to the govt's own website.

I'm not arguing it's high enough but saying they're the same is wrong.
The National Minimum Wage is the minimum pay per hour almost all workers are entitled to. The National Living Wage is higher than the National Minimum Wage - workers get it if they’re over 23.

The National Minimum Wage and Living Wage

Who's entitled to the minimum wage, what's included when working out the minimum wage, and what happens if there's a dispute.

www.gov.uk

As brogdale says above, the so-called National Living Wage is in effect the minimum wage, since the great majority of workers are over 23. I greatly doubt there's any 22-year-olds posting on this thread, so for everyone who's part of this discussion the National Living Wage is the minimum amount that we can legally be paid. This BBC article uses the phrases "minimum wage" and "National Living Wage" interchangeably, while also mentioning that it'll apply to all over-21s from April, which will make it even more transparent that the NLW is just a rebranding of the minimum wage.
I think it is worth insisting on this point, it makes sense to use "living wage" to refer to the original living wage which existed prior to 2015/16, rather than to George Osbourne's snide rebranding, which afaics was just an attempt to confuse and undermine wage demands by introducing a so-called "living wage" that's not actually tied to the cost of living.

 

[Spymaster]

"Are you pissing on my leg?"
"What? No, it's just a bit rainy today."
"Eh? I'm pretty sure that's piss."
"Oh, you're just getting confused. Rain isn't the same thing as the Real Rain that comes out of the sky. But this is definitely rain, even if it's not the same as Real Rain."

I understand perfectly what I'm talking about, my employer is a living wage employer (as a result of workers previously organising to demand it, not out of the goodness of their hearts or anything), and our member was worried about them withdrawing from it, which as we discussed was unlikely. At no point did anyone go "well actually did you know that in 2016 George Osbourne rebranded the minimum wage as the National Living Wage?", because that would have been completely irrelevant and unhelpful.


As brogdale says above, the so-called National Living Wage is in effect the minimum wage, since the great majority of workers are over 23. I greatly doubt there's any 22-year-olds posting on this thread, so for everyone who's part of this discussion the National Living Wage is the minimum amount that we can legally be paid. This BBC article uses the phrases "minimum wage" and "National Living Wage" interchangeably, while also mentioning that it'll apply to all over-21s from April, which will make it even more transparent that the NLW is just a rebranding of the minimum wage.
I think it is worth insisting on this point, it makes sense to use "living wage" to refer to the original living wage which existed prior to 2015/16, rather than to George Osbourne's snide rebranding, which afaics was just an attempt to confuse and undermine wage demands by introducing a so-called "living wage" that's not actually tied to the cost of living.

It's Groundhog day

 

[brogdale]

It's Groundhog day

Minimum wages are funny?

 

[Spymaster]

Minimum wages are funny?

Ah, there you are, Broggers. Thought we'd lost you.

Phew!

 

[equationgirl]

Minimum wages are funny?

Everything is hilarious to Spy!

 

[Spymaster]

Everything is hilarious to Spy!

You lot getting worked-up over stuff you don't understand is amusing!

 

[equationgirl]

You lot getting worked-up over stuff you don't understand is amusing!

You're a bully, like that 12 year old school boy in the playground who just keeps poking at people.

 

[Spymaster]

You're a bully, like that 12 year old school boy in the playground who just keeps poking at people.

I’m generally only responding to being tagged, discussed, or quoted, Eggie. It’s not my fault that the people doing it are thick. You keep picking fights with me, then whine when you get your arse kicked!

 

[brogdale]

You're a bully, like that 12 year old school boy in the playground who just keeps poking at people.

What is evident form the last few pages is that he doesn't understand the terms relating to minimum pay or, seemingly, have any experience of needing to know the differences, thinks the topic laughable, amuses no-one but himself and doesn't respond well to being corrected. Other than that, the usual top posting.

 

[Spymaster]

What is evident form the last few pages is that he doesn't understand the terms relating to minimum pay or, seemingly, have any experience of needing to know the differences, thinks the topic laughable, amuses no-one but himself and doesn't respond well to being corrected. Other than that, the usual top posting.

LOL!

Talk about pots and kettles, Broggers!

 

[brogdale]

QED

 

[Spymaster]

I don’t think you know what that means.

Fancy answering that question yet?

Didn’t think so

Stop pretending to give a monkeys about minimum wage. If you did you’d be applauding BD for paying so well for so long, whilst everyone else was paying MW and still are. This is about your personal beef, not workers conditions, you fibbing old charlatan!

 

[equationgirl]

I’m generally only responding to being tagged, discussed, or quoted, Eggie. It’s not my fault that the people doing it are thick. You keep picking fights with me, then whine when you get your arse kicked!

Calling me Eggie kind of proves my point...

I think you're the one picking fights with everyone, you can't stand it when people call you out for your behaviour and then you resort to your schoolboy name-calling. But nooooo, it's not you that's at fault it's everybody else.

 

[Spymaster]

Calling me Eggie kind of proves my point...

I think you're the one picking fights with everyone, you can't stand it when people call you out for your behaviour and then you resort to your schoolboy name-calling. But nooooo, it's not you that's at fault it's everybody else.

Don't be silly.