BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff

[equationgirl]

And teuchter you don't speak for me

 

[Spymaster]

Spymaster you're only getting back what you've dished out in the past, you can't really complain when caught by your own words.

Well, you can, but it won't be effective...

No complaints here Eggie, but you haven't been paying attention. Today’s been fun!

 

[teuchter]

And teuchter you don't speak for me

Correct.

 

[Pickman's model]

And teuchter you don't speak for me

You have to watch out because he'll speak for anyone if left to his own devices

 

[Pickman's model]

If they are not comfortable with the notion that I am speaking for them, then they are not one of the small number of sensible and rational people on urban75. It really is quite straightforward.

This small number is not that far off one is it

 

[cupid_stunt]

No complaints here Eggie. Today’s been fun!

You may have been having fun mate, but tag teaming with teuchter is something you should be embarrassed about.

 

[Spymaster]

I speak for the rather small number of sensible and rational people on urban75.

teuchter you don't speak for me

Gold!

27 - nil

 

[hitmouse]

Interesting question, Broggers. To answer it we need to look at what has actually happened as a result of their withdrawal from it.

What it boils down to is that they've increased their staff's wages by 20% over the last 2 years rather than the 26% that would have kept their RLW accreditation. That's still one fuck of a pay hike and far more than workers in most other sectors have achieved. A 26% pay rise would be unsustainable for many businesses, which is why only about 14,000 out of 5 million businesses in the UK are committed to the RLW.

"26% over 2 years" is a nice touch, conjuring up the figure of a "26% pay rise" that did not actually happen in any given year. As I understand it, the rise was 10.1% from 2021-22 to 22-23 and then 10.09% from 22-23 to 23-24, but I suppose 10.1% is a bit less of an impressive number, especially when compared against the actual rate of inflation during those years. Frankly I think you should've gone a bit further, if you'd gone back ten years or so then you could've conjured up an even bigger number. Also, to state the bleedin' obvious, the RLW only affects the wages of the lowest-paid staff, not the company as a whole - I'm sure James Watts is still making above the RLW even if he hasn't had a 26% pay rise, or whatever number you feel like cooking up.

 

[Spymaster]

- I'm sure James Watts is still making above the RLW

Ya reckon?

 

[hitmouse]

You get why that undermines the point you were trying to make, right?

 

[PR1Berske]

You get why that undermines the point you were trying to make, right?

Leave them. They want you to keep typing into their Internet Points Vacuum. The more you respond, the more they get off.

 

[Spymaster]

You get why that undermines the point you were trying to make, right?

No.

 

[Spymaster]

Leave them.

Him/he please.

 

[redsquirrel]

Let's be honest, we all use businesses that underpay staff don't we, and we don't bother to check. Anyone claiming different is a liar.

That's not to point fingers because we can't realistically control for that in the modern world. Judging anyone going to Brewdog or making out they're some sort of particular evil in this respect is a bit silly though.

Sure. I've little time for ethical consumerism.

But we should support workers fighting for the RLW, we should support the RLW campaign, part of which should be naming and shaming employers that don't sign up, or leave it. The bad press BD are getting over this can be used to try and improve conditions for all workers.

It's the same as with Apple or whatever, yeah of course they are all at it but by targeting a name, showing the shameful treatment of their workers then if a positive change can be made there it will hopefully improve conditions for all. Or take the pension dispute I'm in, most workers would kill to have the reduced defined contribution pension employers tried to thrust on HE lecturers - but you don't improve pensions for all by accepting the attack on one sector. Something that other union members know and why they are happy to support us in our fight even though their own pension schemes may be poor.

(Above isn't really at you MO, more riffing off your post)

 

[keybored]

snakebite and black a.k.a. the purple nasty

Known as diesel where I was (if by "black" you mean a shot of sickly sweet blackcurrant cordial). Easy to diagnose victims as the blackcurrant on the rim of the glass would dye the corners of the mouth giving the cruel impression of a smile even as they were projectile vomiting.

 

[nastyned]

More from Punks With Purpose and Unite: An Open Letter to BrewDog on Behalf of Current Staff, Punks With Purpose

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Sure. I've little time for ethical consumerism.

But we should support workers fighting for the RLW, we should support the RLW campaign, part of which should be naming and shaming employers that don't sign up, or leave it. The bad press BD are getting over this can be used to try and improve conditions for all workers.

It's the same as with Apple or whatever, yeah of course they are all at it but by targeting a name, showing the shameful treatment of their workers then if a positive change can be made there it will hopefully improve conditions for all. Or take the pension dispute I'm in, most workers would kill to have the reduced defined contribution pension employers tried to thrust on HE lecturers - but you don't improve pensions for all by accepting the attack on one sector. Something that other union members know and why they are happy to support us in our fight even though their own pension schemes may be poor.

(Above isn't really at you MO, more riffing off your post)

Yeah totally agree with that. The difference between that sort of view and all the 'blah blah cunts blah blah hipsters' sort of stuff is really the point I've been trying to make. I mean I wouldn't even disagree that Watt seems like a dick but I don't think that goes anywhere and I wouldn't expect anyone else to care what I thought.

 

[hash tag]

Yeah totally agree with that. The difference between that sort of view and all the 'blah blah cunts blah blah hipsters' sort of stuff is really the point I've been trying to make. I mean I wouldn't even disagree that Watt seems like a dick but I don't think that goes anywhere and I wouldn't expect anyone else to care what I thought.

It's OK to treat workers like shit, refuse to recognise unions etc. provided you pay a living wage

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It's OK to treat workers like shit, refuse to recognise unions etc. provided you pay a living wage

Er, what?

 

[klang]

Er, what?

He said:
'It's OK to treat workers like shit, refuse to recognise unions etc. provided you pay a living wage'

And then he put a rolly eye smiley at the end.

 

[hitmouse]

Known as diesel where I was (if by "black" you mean a shot of sickly sweet blackcurrant cordial). Easy to diagnose victims as the blackcurrant on the rim of the glass would dye the corners of the mouth giving the cruel impression of a smile even as they were projectile vomiting.

Oh yeah, it was like lipstick on the cheap. When I was a teenager some of my mates developed the habit of greeting one another like lorry drivers (or at least with the hand signs that we imagined lorry drivers use to greet each other, not ever having been one myself I can't really comment on the accuracy here?) while drinking diesel. We were so cool and sophisticated.

 

[editor]

More from Punks With Purpose and Unite: An Open Letter to BrewDog on Behalf of Current Staff, Punks With Purpose

Indefensible, anti-union scum. Anyone cheerleading Brewdog's management has shown their true colours towards low paid workers and their unwavering support for right wing, anti-working class policies.

In the wake of your decision to withdraw from the real Living Wage from April 2024, both Unite Hospitality and Punks With Purpose have offered support to current workers, and we have discovered that not only are they unhappy with your decision, but they are afraid that they cannot even discuss it without facing repercussions. As it appears no mechanism exists for them to do so in a way that feels safe, we will try to provide one.

We have been told directly by workers that, were they seen to be engaging with a union (or each other) regarding pay, there are some members of bar management who they would expect to retaliate. It was suggested they might reprimand or even dismiss workers under spurious reasoning, or bully workers into resigning. We are reminded of the mass firing of LGBTQ+ workers in Indianapolis, attributed to “performance issues”. Current workers also explained they had no safe way to raise these concerns internally. Some were not aware of the Listening Line and the Employee Representative Group you implemented in 2021. Upon hearing this, we sought to find out whether those platforms were being utilised – but your Transparency Dashboard seems to have disappeared. How strange. Regardless, it’s clear that even the anonymous Listening Line does not feel like a safe way to lodge concerns for worried staff – perhaps unsurprising, after the last “independent third party” you brought in turned out to be sharing confidential information directly with you.

We are drawing attention to this on behalf of your workers, in an attempt to put a spotlight on the intimidation tactics described to us, by them. You have singled out the staff members on the lowest pay – those with the least resources to fight back against this decision. We call on you now – do not prevent them from organising, do not force them out, and do not ignore their union representation. Twenty thousand people have signed a petition which backs this up – a fair few more signatures than the last time.

 

[teuchter]

Can't help but to notice that no-one has chosen to distance themselves from the more sinister aspects of the dog food industry. Very telling.

 

[klang]

Can't help but to notice that no-one has chosen to distance themselves from the more sinister aspects of the dog food industry. Very telling.

Do they serve dog food at bd's?
Actually, they probably do...

 

[hash tag]

Can't help but to notice that no-one has chosen to distance themselves from the more sinister aspects of the dog food industry. Very telling.

I'm not a consumer of dog food.

 

[Chz]

Do they serve dog food at bd's?
Actually, they probably do...

TBF to them, the few times I've been in there the food was pretty good and not outrageously expensive. Though the reason we were in there is that a co-worker was a shareholder and got a discount, so may have a skewed view of the value proposition. I don't care for the way the company is run, and the pubs are horrible echo chambers for my tinnitus, but I honestly couldn't complain about the food or the range of non-BD beer on offer. There are a dozen worse choices within a 5 minute walk of the Oxford St. one. (but West End pubs are generally uniquely poor) I can't really claim the moral high ground with my taste for Sam Smith's, either.

 

[hash tag]

I have no idea where BD's are in relation to Oxford St and have no wish to know other than to avoid it. Unfortunately the pubs I know with the best ales are roughly between Regent St and Tottenham CT Rd.

 

[Chz]

There are (purportedly) 48 pubs in Soho. 1 is great (The Lyric) and probably another 4 or 5 are good. The rest are totally mediocre at best.

It's less bad the Fitzrovia side of the road.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Looked up Sam Smith's pubs out of interest as there are loads in central London. They're even worse employers than Wetherspoons. (At least at Wetherspoons they give you free food.)

https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Samuel-Smiths-Brewery/reviews?ftopic=paybenefits

I used to drink in SS pubs quite often. Last time I was there, it wasn't even cheap really. More than 5 quid for the basic weak bitter.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Looked up Sam Smith's pubs out of interest as there are loads in central London. They're even worse employers than Wetherspoons. (At least at Wetherspoons they give you free food.)

https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Samuel-Smiths-Brewery/reviews?ftopic=paybenefits

I used to drink in SS pubs quite often. Last time I was there, it wasn't even cheap really. More than 5 quid for the basic weak bitter.

Yeah they're definitely not 'cheap' any more. It's a shame really because they have some lovely buildings.