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Breadmaking

Stig said:
mrs quoad that is the easiest looking recipe I've ever seen in my, what, 5 weeks baking history. Is there a bit missing where you spend 18 hours slaving in front of a floury worktop?
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:D

Virtually all the fannying about w dough is to do with working the gluten, and so improving the structure and rise. (I'm thinking to myself: is that true? Pretty sure it is.)

There's effectively no gluten in rye. And so, no need for any fannying around.

Mix, prove, bake, thumbs.
 
Sold the whopper at the front for a fiver, and the taller half fruit loaf at the back for £3.

That's about 1.5kg of flour, but it's covered the cost of a 16kg sack. Which, in conjunction with some enquiries, does leave me thinking there's potential for this to scale.

At present, my one customer literally covers the cost of all the kilos of bread I put out for free :D

IMG_8435.JPG
 
mrs quoad said:
I see that I failed to attach my baker's rye recipe earlier.

View attachment 111262

UnderAnOpenSky

I note "sticky wet claylike" :D Which, tbh, I hadn't read for a while. (Proportions the important bit. What else is going to happen with rye, apart from mixing?!)
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Well at least I wasn't doing anything wrong as such. I think when i do it again I will continue to spoon it in to a bread tin.

I didn't actually try the last one as left for Wales early and forgot my half. GF says it was ok though. :)
 
Are your loaves 100% rye, UnderAnOpenSky ?

If so, have you thought of trying additional caraway? Very traditional german. Kümmelbrot. Also quite Jewish, my boss tells me.

Not so great for jam (&c) and arguably an acquired taste even for savoury. I tend to run with it when ryeing tho.

(Often use fennel instead - which is a bit less medicinal than caraway, whilst still giving an aniseed tweak).
 
I like caraway in rye bread, but I put about half or less of the amount than in your recipe in mine, maybe 0.35%.
 
Not tried caraway yet in Rye bread. The last one wasn't totally Rye but it formed the vast majority.

On an unrelated note my GF buys and sells organic veg. I was looking at the price list or a supplier and spotted these flours. They only do two types, was wondering what this white may be like. I was after very strong, but wondered if it could be still be good?

Superior White: this is an 85% extraction which means that 15% only of the bran, has been removed. Thanks to our beautiful Astrier mills, this is still a highly nutritious form of 'white flour'.
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Products

Place I saw it is slightly more expensive then buying direct, but there would be no postage and I could buy just 16kg for about a quid a kg.
 
Chz said:
The only thing worse than caraway in rye is putting caraway in a 95% white wheat loaf and calling it "rye". Bleh. :p
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One of my favourite fruit loaves is raisin and fennel. Works with pretty much any flour. No more than 25g of fennel / 1kg flour, but generally turns out a blinder.
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
l
Products

Place I saw it is slightly more expensive then buying direct, but there would be no postage and I could buy just 16kg for about a quid a kg.
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They are literally the people whose farm gate I was going to. £10 a sack from my favourite baker! £12.50 over the farm gate.

You could sell it as supermarket brown - it's lovely, creamy-beige flour. It'll hold a decent structure, though not as spectacular as pure strong white.

After a while with Shipton Mill, I've gone back to it w/ a tendency to work gluten more than I was. It does hold up well. And is more interesting than plain strong white wrt flavour. But it isn't quite strong white, structurally, either.


IMG_4789.JPG
 
mrs quoad said:
They are literally the people whose farm gate I was going to. £10 a sack from my favourite baker! £12.50 over the farm gate.

You could sell it as supermarket brown - it's lovely, creamy-beige flour. It'll hold a decent structure, though not as spectacular as pure strong white.

After a while with Shipton Mill, I've gone back to it w/ a tendency to work gluten more than I was. It does hold up well. And is more interesting than plain strong white wrt flavour. But it isn't quite strong white, structurally, either.


View attachment 111367
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:thumbs:

Nice one. Even at a quid a kilo it's still a dam good price for organic flour and I've been putting a bit of brown and rye in white loaves anyway to add flavour. Obviously I want my bread to rise, but I don't mind bread thats a bit "heavy".
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
:thumbs:

Nice one. Even at a quid a kilo it's still a dam good price for organic flour and I've been putting a bit of brown and rye in white loaves anyway to add flavour. Obviously I want my bread to rise, but I don't mind bread thats a bit "heavy".
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It's not at all bad, and hardly heavy - every single loaf I've posted on here for at least six months from last Dec will be pretty much 100% that.

Not sure it's the highest gluten strong white in the world, but it's perfectly possible to knock out pretty much 90% of anything you'd be able to do with eg shipton mills.
 
mrs quoad said:
It's not at all bad - every single loaf I've posted on here for at least six months from last Dec will be pretty much 100% that.
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Don't know if I've mentioned this before but it's more important that it's organic (if you care about that sort of thing) in brown/wholemeal as the pesticide residue will mostly be in the husk.

Looking forward to getting back into baking on Monday. Been away so much I've still not had a chance to use my new steel (other then for pizza) or my peel. Realise I've still not got a proofing basket yet, done loads of work the last few weeks so feel an Amazon order coming up.

Been meaning to ask... Why do you and lots of others make round loafs? Is a more traditional loaf shape more logical for makings sandwiches and the like?
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
Been meaning to ask... Why do you and lots of others make round loafs? Is a more traditional loaf shape more logical for makings sandwiches and the like?
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I have no reason for making round loaves, other than that I have a round banneton and prefer slashing round loaves. At 2kg, it's also frankly easier to get a round loaf off the end of a peel without it looking like a pissed snake by the time it hits the baking stone.

I do also make tubular loaves, mind. They're better suited to taking into work (and the "dropping straight onto baking stone" process mitigated the drunk snake factor.)
 
Chz said:
The only thing worse than caraway in rye is putting caraway in a 95% white wheat loaf and calling it "rye". Bleh. :p
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I guess it's what you're used to, to me rye bread doesn't taste normal without it but I pretty much dislike it in anything else.
 
I'm obviously missing something. Worked out my hydration levels (60%), threw all the water and half the flour in the last night with a bit of starter. Bubbling away nicely this morning. Kneeded in the machine with the rest of the flour this morning, left in a covered bowl for a few hours and then got it out to shape. Except it sticks to everything, despite lots of flour and won't hold a shape. Folded some more flour in and put it back in the bowl.

I mean there is a bit more water in the starter, but I don't use a vast amount of that, due to doing the overnight sponge thing to effectively make a giant starter anyway. Ah well. Hopefully should taste good. I'm just trying to get a basic method hammered out that is consistent, so making bread is a quick process (if you excluded the waiting times).
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
I'm obviously missing something. Worked out my hydration levels (60%), threw all the water and half the flour in the last night with a bit of starter. Bubbling away nicely this morning. Kneeded in the machine with the rest of the flour this morning, left in a covered bowl for a few hours and then got it out to shape. Except it sticks to everything, despite lots of flour and won't hold a shape. Folded some more flour in and put it back in the bowl.

I mean there is a bit more water in the starter, but I don't use a vast amount of that, due to doing the overnight sponge thing to effectively make a giant starter anyway. Ah well. Hopefully should taste good. I'm just trying to get a basic method hammered out that is consistent, so making bread is a quick process (if you excluded the waiting times).
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If half your flour has been startered overnight, I'd sort of expect that to spooge more / lose gluten. That's a lot to be feeding, to my untutored eye - it sounds like it's basically a massive, 12hr autolyse.

Then again, 60% shouldn't be too spoogy unless everything's gone totally bingo.

I assume this is from a recipe? Would be interested to see it.

Edit: and then no knead re-proofing for several hours? Yeah, I'm not surprised it lacked structure, though that might be my ignorance. Curious about the recipe!

Edit2: in that situation, I'd light rye it and fold and fold and fold and fold to see if I could get anything coming together. Suspect it'd be relatively brief, going by your description, but reckon that'd be the best chance of getting it tight / self supporting.
 
mrs quoad said:
If half your flour has been startered overnight, I'd sort of expect that to spooge more / lose gluten. That's a lot to be feeding, to my untutored eye - it sounds like it's basically a massive, 12hr autolyse.

Then again, 60% shouldn't be too spoogy unless everything's gone totally bingo.

I assume this is from a recipe? Would be interested to see it.

Edit: and then no knead re-proofing for several hours? Yeah, I'm not surprised it lacked structure, though that might be my ignorance. Curious about the recipe!

Edit2: in that situation, I'd light rye it and fold and fold and fold and fold to see if I could get anything coming together. Suspect it'd be relatively brief, going by your description, but reckon that'd be the best chance of getting it tight / self supporting.
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I've got the ebook somewhere, I shall dig it out. Folded wholemeal into in and left for a few hours. Was lazy so shovled into bread tin. Still tastes good if not vast amounts of rise. Either I've just been lucky so far, but it appears you must have to fuck up quite spectacularly to end up with something worse then most supermarkets sell.
 
mrs quoad said:
Definitely salted then :lol:

If it's in open air all this time, could also be temp? A couple degrees could have a tremendous impact over c.24hrs.
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Ah yeah. Definitely salted. I might have a play with a different recipe then, just out of curiosity. He does seem to know what he's on about in that river cottage book, I quite like it as it's not just a list of recipies, but has a good section at the start that is interesting for the novice. I've stuck it in a dropbox if anyone wants a link, although I bought a paper copy after downloading as somethings just work better on paper.
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
Ah yeah. Definitely salted. I might have a play with a different recipe then, just out of curiosity. He does seem to know what he's on about in that river cottage book, I quite like it as it's not just a list of recipies, but has a good section at the start that is interesting for the novice. I've stuck it in a dropbox if anyone wants a link, although I bought a paper copy after downloading as somethings just work better on paper.
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Happen to have two of his sourdough recipes in my sent folder.

Either of these?

image1.JPG image2.JPG image3.JPG
 
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