Breadmaking

[UnderOpenSky]

Possibly one of my more successful loafs so far. Starter looks like it needs a lot of love to get it going again so used dried yeast. 90% Strong White, 10% Rye and fair few seeds. Rye did make it sticky, but it rose nicely. Forgot to add salt so had to be transferred out of the bread tin after it had risen, rekneaded and then allowed to rise again.

Had a bit of a light bulb moment when baking it. Rather then transferring it out the mixer when kneeded, I left it there and in an hours time used it on a slow speed to knock it back and let it rise again. Also tried a small amount of olive oil on the crust. Quite nice. Not convinced I like the crust super crusty. Had some awesome sandwiches today which were super filling.

 

[mrs quoad]

I am using Sainsburys whole grain malted blah blah tonight. Ttd. £1.10 /kg. My wife's favourite flour. And the only one she eats, tbf - she orders three Sburies loaves each week.

It is weird as fuck. As in, weird as fuck.

It pretends to be, erm. Brown? Does it? It certainly uses words like "whole grain."

But it behaves like dirty, dirty white. Tbf, it behaves like the dirtiest white imaginable, with added gluten and added sugar. (It glistens, in ways that I've only seen sugared loaves glisten).

It also rises... wholly unnaturally. Iirc, the ingredients do state "fortified" flour in the ingredients, but fuck only knows what they're doing to pump it up like this. It rises at double the rate of normal flour. And holds its structure (and moisture) better than almost any other flour I've encountered. So, yeah. It properly fucks with whatever it is that yeast does.

So, yeah. Weird AF. My money is on sugared, dyed-brown (is that the malt?) strong white flour. With some seeds & "whole grains" thrown in. Not sure how to find out if that's what it is, tho. Weird as fuck stuff. Gives an amazing loaf, but I kinda don't want to eat it because it's so massively full of wrong.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

That sounds a funny ingredient mrs quoad. I'm half tempted to give it a go, although it would mean making a trip to Sainsbury's and my neighbourhood ain't posh enough for one of them.

Anyway I'm finding time to bake again and did another loaf. Amazingly the starter came back to life rather quickly, but in the intrests of speeding things up I threw a few grams of yeast into the mix as well. Seems cheating, but if it gives that soughdough bitter taste, but works quicker I'm all for it....

 

[mrs quoad]

View attachment 116444

Still 90% strong white?

If so, that hasn't risen as much as it could (the slashes look pretty much unchanged - with an optimal strong white rise, they should be sorta erupting). Over / under proofed? Steam in the oven? Low hydration?

 

[RubyToogood]

I am using Sainsburys whole grain malted blah blah tonight. Ttd. £1.10 /kg. My wife's favourite flour. And the only one she eats, tbf - she orders three Sburies loaves each week.

It is weird as fuck. As in, weird as fuck.

It pretends to be, erm. Brown? Does it? It certainly uses words like "whole grain."

But it behaves like dirty, dirty white. Tbf, it behaves like the dirtiest white imaginable, with added gluten and added sugar. (It glistens, in ways that I've only seen sugared loaves glisten).

It also rises... wholly unnaturally. Iirc, the ingredients do state "fortified" flour in the ingredients, but fuck only knows what they're doing to pump it up like this. It rises at double the rate of normal flour. And holds its structure (and moisture) better than almost any other flour I've encountered. So, yeah. It properly fucks with whatever it is that yeast does.

So, yeah. Weird AF. My money is on sugared, dyed-brown (is that the malt?) strong white flour. With some seeds & "whole grains" thrown in. Not sure how to find out if that's what it is, tho. Weird as fuck stuff. Gives an amazing loaf, but I kinda don't want to eat it because it's so massively full of wrong.

It is weird shit. I tried it once. Never again.

 

[mrs quoad]

It is weird shit. I tried it once. Never again.

I find it a bit like a really nasty scab that, every now and then, I just have to go back and pick.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Still 90% strong white?

If so, that hasn't risen as much as it could (the slashes look pretty much unchanged - with an optimal strong white rise, they should be sorta erupting). Over / under proofed? Steam in the oven? Low hydration?

I'm actually now having doubts that's what the "candian" flour is. Colour seems just a little to dark. It's a 100‰ this time.

I suspect it's not been left to rise long enough though is the main culprit. Plenty of steam in the oven. About 60‰ hydration.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Tastes alright mind and luckily my GF is far less perfectionist then me and it will all get eaten.

Fuck it. Tomorrow I'm going to bake a loaf with Aldi Strong White and yeast and take it from there.

For "sough dough" I suspect the above is far to quick a process. I know it's cheating but is there an issue with using the mixer to knock it back.

 

[mrs quoad]

I'm actually now having doubts that's what the "candian" flour is. Colour seems just a little to dark. It's a 100‰ this time.

I suspect it's not been left to rise long enough though is the main culprit. Plenty of steam in the oven. About 60‰ hydration.

View attachment 116447

View attachment 116448

This suggests to me it's 100% whole meal. The bag also looks as if there are flecks of germ / bran in there, and the loaf looks credibly whole meal!



In which case, there's probably not much to be gained from slashing it at all. Obvs your call, but if it isn't bursting at the seams, then the gains from slashing (and certainly prolific / heavy slashing) are minimal.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I feel a proper facepalm moment here. Goodness knows why but I assumed that Canadian meant high gluten and therefore white. It's blatantly not a white loaf.

Not unpleasant, but certainly not what I was aiming for. Assumed the darker colour last time came from the rye I'd added.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Right. Time to play. Been ages since I've had time at home.

Rather then the floppy starter with God knows what ratios and flour types, I put a teaspoon in of the old with 200g strong white (actual stuff this time) and 200ml water to make a new one overnight.

300g of flour and 100ml mixed and stuck in the fridge for a slow Autolyse at the same time. I'll kneed the two together in the morning with the salt and a drop of oil. Let's see if I can make a freestanding loaf that looks what I think they should. Practicalities of sandwich slicing be dammed!

 

[mrs quoad]

For "sough dough" I suspect the above is far to quick a process. I know it's cheating but is there an issue with using the mixer to knock it back.

Tbf, are you happy w the results? If so, then it's ok! It's more vigorous than the process I use - but, then again, literally all I'm doing after the first knead is folding. (3-4 times during the bulk proof; then 1-2 shapings).

Good luck w your overnight loaf!

 

[mrs quoad]

I feel a proper facepalm moment here. Goodness knows why but I assumed that Canadian meant high gluten and therefore white. It's blatantly not a white loaf.

They also describe it as high gluten on the front of the bag, which is a bit weird for whole meal as the germ / bran will cut through the gluten strands as they develop.

Put a 100% dark rye loaf on last night bc I hadn't been arsed to get anything going, but at the last minute couldn't resist. About 6.5hrs proving at room temp. Admittedly, not HOT room temp. But still, I was half expecting it to've collapsed come this morning.

Not a bit of it. Rye continues to fascinate and horrify me in almost equal measures. (German colleagues will eat this, whilst I'll probably have 2 ham on rye sandwiches and then not want to see the stuff again for a year).

 

[pug]

Tastes alright mind and luckily my GF is far less perfectionist then me and it will all get eaten.

Fuck it. Tomorrow I'm going to bake a loaf with Aldi Strong White and yeast and take it from
there.

For "sough dough" I suspect the above is far to quick a process. I know it's cheating but is there an issue with using the mixer to knock it back.

Aldi are selling Extra strong white flour now and it's really good stuff.

 

[mrs quoad]

Aldi are selling Extra strong white flour now and it's really good stuff.

Would also cheerily recommend exploring Shipton Mill if looking at serious qties over time. Free delivery over £30, iirc, and about £0.85/kg in 16-25kg sacks. (Organic, properly outstanding quality). Obvs that's a bit of a commitment to most home bakers...

 

[mrs quoad]

tbh, I'd also cheerily recommend trying several strong whites alongside each other. One of my first floury revelations was just how much difference there was between Sburies strong white, and Sburies ttd strong white. The gluten content (and bounciness / water retention) of the latter is out of the park when compared to the first. Likewise, Yorkshire Organic vs Shipton Mills.

 

[pug]

Aye, I've tried a few strong whites this year, the best one came from Maud Foster it was lovely and creamy looking and really bouncy but £3 for 1.5kg, tried their brown too and that's very similar. The Aldi extra strong comes second place comparable bounce but less creamy looking and not as much flavour. The others I've tried are Aldi strong white, Lidl sw, Sainsbury sw, Doves farm sw, Allinson Extra sw and tbh honest there wasn't much difference between them, the Allinson was slightly bouncier and the doves farm was a thorough disappointment for £2. I think I tried Tesco's sw but I can't remember, I did try their wholemeal which seemed good.
I've been tempted to get 16kg from somewhere like Shipton but I'd not get through it quickly enough.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Once again that look a lovely loaf. I like rye bread as toast, although not a 100% one yet.

I don't know why I make things hard for myself. Doing new starter I did last night...seems like it worked, bubbling, clean and fresh and had expanded loads. Leaving the dough in the fridge to mix with it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to work it out, but it doesn't want to mix. Used mixer, hands and even scissors. I'm now leaving it for a bit in the hope that if can be rescued.

Edit: It has mixed. An incredibly sticky dough, but it has mixed non the less!

 

[UnderOpenSky]

tbh, I'd also cheerily recommend trying several strong whites alongside each other. One of my first floury revelations was just how much difference there was between Sburies strong white, and Sburies ttd strong white. The gluten content (and bounciness / water retention) of the latter is out of the park when compared to the first. Likewise, Yorkshire Organic vs Shipton Mills.

I'm just waiting for my OH to start ordering veg wholesale again so I can tag a bulk order of organic white on. I guess in the mean time it gives me a chance to see what different types of flour are like.

Think I'm going to have to clear space in the freezer. Had the accidental wholemeal this morning for toast with lentils and sandwiches have been made from it and there is still loads left and will be baking again later.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Fuck yeah. This has got to be one the tastiest yet and right up till I had the first slice this morning I worried that it might not be great. The frustrating thing is can't narrow it down to a single thing. Suspect it could have been allowed to rise a bit longer, but it had 7 hours and I wanted to go to be bed so it went in the oven. Dough was stupidly sticky. It wasn't so much knocking it back for the second rise, but spooning the mix into the tin with a dough scrapper, despite being only just over 60% hydration. Don't think I'll be rushing to do the slow autolyse in the fridge again though, at least not with that little water as mixing it with the generous starter was a fucker. It's also the first pure white loaf I've done. I see why you suggest a razor blade now mrs quoad, it was like it was self healing when I was putting the grooves in the top. I guess what I do quite like is that I'm not slavishly following recipes for timings and stuff, which makes the whole process easier as I can fit it around my day as opposed to structuring my day around baking a dam loaf of bread.

 

[Chz]

which makes the whole process easier as I can fit it around my day as opposed to structuring my day around baking a dam loaf of bread.

Sadly why I don't bake half as much as I used to. Too many overproofed loaves collapsing into bricks because I dared to do something else with my day. I'm rubbish that way.

 

[izz]

may I commend you on your breadknife UnderAnOpenSky ?

 

[friedaweed]

OK so I gots some starter from ebay.

I'm feeding it daily and it's very active. Made a loaf last night which is nice but how do it gets teh big bubbles in me bread? I followed this recipe.

A Basic Sourdough Recipe

Any recipe ideas for a novice from you gurus on here?

 

[mrs quoad]

OK so I gots some starter from ebay.

I'm feeding it daily and it's very active. Made a loaf last night which is nice but how do it gets teh big bubbles in me bread? I followed this recipe.

A Basic Sourdough Recipe

Any recipe ideas for a novice from you gurus on here?

Timing, tbh. Timing, loads of gluten, high hydration (that loaf looks like 75%, which is the upper end of manageable), good structuring (folding / shaping), and steam.

If you get those things right, you should max out your bubble potential.

I think!

Enjoy!

Edit: oh, no! Missed the 100g of wholemeal flour. So that's 60% hydration (300mls to 500g, not 400g). So that's the lower end of functional hydration. Erm. I think upping it should give bigger bubbles. Though I've never been entirely convinced that the trade-off with stiffness / structure that you get at lower hydrations really is entirely worth it (bubblewise), unless the timing / structuring / folding of a higher hydration loaf is pretty much bang on.

 

[friedaweed]

Timing, tbh. Timing, loads of gluten, high hydration (that loaf looks like 75%, which is the upper end of manageable), good structuring (folding / shaping), and steam.

If you get those things right, you should max out your bubble potential.

I think!

Enjoy!

Edit: oh, no! Missed the 100g of wholemeal flour. So that's 60% hydration (300mls to 500g, not 400g). So that's the lower end of functional hydration. Erm. I think upping it should give bigger bubbles. Though I've never been entirely convinced that the trade-off with stiffness / structure that you get at lower hydrations really is entirely worth it (bubblewise), unless the timing / structuring / folding of a higher hydration loaf is pretty much bang on.

Cheers mucka. Just doing one now but replacing the wholemeal with spelt. the first one tastes yum and it's nice, light and areated (I do bake t'other way) but I want teh bubbles

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I think I'll try proving overnight next time then to see if I can develop more flavour.

I'm a little confused by Autolyse though. Some places suggests it needs to happen before yeast/starter is added, the above says otherwise. Also advantages/disadvantages of beating the heck out of it in the mixer.

Anyway. Latest effort. It's turned out OK, but got my timings wrong as in I foolishly made plans for the evening, so had to speed to process up with a little commercial yeast.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I did a little experiment and tried using caraway seeds in a small loaf (100g Rye, 50g, Strong Brown, 150g Very Strong White). Quite nice, not sure I'd want it all the time as don't think it would go with that much. Baking such small loaves is it's own challenge. Confirms what I've been thinking is that I need a different shaped loaf tin. My main one really needs a 800g bake to make decent sandwiche sized slices.

Just thrown together a more standard sough dough. Going to try letting it prove in the Fridge overnight and see if develops some nice flavours. However I gave it a proper long blast in the mixer and the dough is still very sticky. Not the end of the world as I don't mind throwing it in a bread tin, but as a technical challenge, I want to know why!

It's probably dead wasteful but think I'm going to try a simple yeasted white loaf, which I've never actually had done as a benchmark. Oh well the Aldi Very Strong is only 75p per kg. I wonder if the neighbour's want some bread.

Im getting 16kg of Shipton Mill Organic White on Friday. Hopefully it's decent.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Fucking hell. Proper dough. Been able to fold and handle it properly and all sorts. Which rather beggers the question what and an earth is happening to the stuff I introduce starter to that makes just stick to everything, including the my hands.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Dp

 

[mrs quoad]

Fucking hell. Proper dough. Been able to fold and handle it properly and all sorts. Which rather beggers the question what and an earth is happening to the stuff I introduce starter to that makes just stick to everything, including the my hands.

View attachment 116923

Hydration? That looks quite dry to me.

The loaf a couple of posts above is also a great example of where slashing would work well - giving the rise a clean line to erupt from, instead of puzzling out the weakest bits of the crust. Unless you're aiming for a more rustic look, obvs