'Bleeding' vegan burger is an 'existential threat' to beef' whines NZ MP

[8ball]

Do these people even exist?

Yeah, I’ve seen plenty of talk from vegans being iffy about meat substitutes, but I’ve only seen meat eaters complain about the terminology.

As we saw with a recent burger chain stunt, there are trade and safety-based reasons for clarity over which is which, but just putting the word ‘vegan’ in front would surely satisfy vegans.

I’d say there is a case for clearly distinguishing a vegan burger that is actually like a meat one to the more usual bean burgers etc. (because a lot of veg*ns find the thought/texture/taste icky) but that’s about it.

 

[stuff_it]

Do these people even exist?

8ball

Yes.

In fact it's recently become a 'mainstream' issue, thanks to various law changes in France and the EU.

France to ban 'misleading' veggie foods

The UK's seriously considering renaming the veggie burger | WIRED UK

‘Veggie discs’ to replace veggie burgers in EU crackdown on food labels

Personally, I have in fact heard staunch vegans go on about not wanting veggie 'sausages' and 'burgers' to be called such, since it allegedly 'perpetuates the idea of eating animal products'. The French law sounds more like meat eaters moaning, but I've definitely heard it from vegans as well.

 

[8ball]

It can be really hard to tell whether someone is just talking about something, or whether something really has a cat in hell's chance of being implemented.
I think the House Of Lords is likely to take a sensible stance over this, being aware that we've been calling the things veggie burgers for decades.

 

[friedaweed]

No mention yet in the thread of the vegans who don't believe in vegan burgers and sausage being called such, because it reminds them of these foods meaty forbearers?

I do find that whole thing quite interesting. If I stopped eating meat I'm not sure I would want to be eating things that were named after or simulated the thing I'd given up. I'm on a very low carb diet currently and find it rather odd that there are so many simulated recipes that do this for high carb food staples. Keto bread, cauliflower rice, Rutabaga chips, flour free pizza base. None of them taste like they set out to do and the ones have tried just made me miss bread and rice all the more

I could never get my head a round that veggie bacon strip stuff

 

[stuff_it]

I could never get my head a round that veggie bacon strip stuff

Bacon, especially, seems to be something that vegans don't like to even smell being cooked - AFAIKT because it reminds them of delicious meat.

I've never really gotten the 'pork at all costs' bacon loving thing. It's too salty, full of preservatives like sulphites that give me terrible asthma, and pigs are smarter than dogs.

Personally as an ex-veggie I won't eat pork as I don't like to think about how smart pigs are, but I understand a lot of people really love bacon. I stick to unprocessed chicken and occasionally beef from good sources. I know it's still far crueller than not eating meat, but when I don't get enough protein from meat my skin condition becomes completely impossible to live with - deep, weeping sores all over that make it too painful to sleep lying down.

I feel a bit bad about the cows, but don't really see that eating beef is any worse than consuming dairy - both support the meat industry, since it's not like cows give milk without producing lots of calves that are either male or in excess of requirements. I really do feel that secondary school children should be exposed to meat slaughter, even in the guise of killing a few school farm chickens and cooking them.

I'm betting an awful lot of people would eat less/no meat if they knew where it came from. If people have seen a chicken killed and plucked, skinned a rabbit, etc and still want to eat meat I have a lot more sympathy for them than the people who choose the meat in the supermarket with the least runny bloody water in the corner of the packet out of some sort of squeamishness (something I've seen people doing when choosing their dinner).

I also despise beetroot, so a 'bleeding' veggie burger that leaked beetroot sounds absolutely horrendous to me.

 

[8ball]

I do find that whole thing quite interesting. If I stopped eating meat I'm not sure I would want to be eating things that were named after or simulated the thing I'd given up.

I would quite happily chomp on a cheeseburger that had never involved the exploitation and/or slaughter of a cow.
Surprisingly, it's harder to find the right cheese and they've nearly nailed the burger.

 

[stuff_it]

I would quite happily chomp on a cheeseburger that had never involved the exploitation and/or slaughter of a cow.

Not if it was leaking beetroot. Bleurgh!

 

[8ball]

Not if it was leaking beetroot. Bleurgh!

It doesn't really leak beetroot as such.

 

[editor]

Not if it was leaking beetroot. Bleurgh!

But dribbling animal fat from an exploited creature is just dandy?

 

[mwgdrwg]

I'm quite excited about eating raw horse on my upcoming holiday!

Saying that, I love veggie-burgers and this looks great.

 

[gentlegreen]

, but when I don't get enough protein from meat my skin condition becomes completely impossible to live with - deep, weeping sores all over that make it too painful to sleep lying down.

Is this a documented thing ?

 

[SpookyFrank]

The UK's seriously considering renaming the veggie burger | WIRED UK

“The content of food should be very clear from its name and clearly explained in the accompanying description. Better enforcement is needed to ensure the packaging, labelling and marketing of products does not mislead customers,” says Ruth Edge, chief food chain adviser at the National Farmers’ Union.

Lol, lucky there's no dodgy labelling of meat products eh?

 

[8ball]

Lol, lucky there's no dodgy labelling of meat products eh?

Tbf it would be handy if a lot of things were simply and clearly labelled "dodgy meat product".

 

[SpookyFrank]

Is this a documented thing ?

If it was it would have led to a complete rewrite of the principles of biochemistry.

As long as you get all your amino acids your body gives not a tuppeny fuck whether they came from dead creatures or not. There is no possible mechanism by which it could make such a distinction even if it wanted to, any more than it could know whether a particular water molecule entered the body in the form of coffee or tea.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Tbf it would be handy if a lot of things were simply and clearly labelled "dodgy meat product".

I'm still furious about that decidedly tepid and obviously non-canine 'hot dog' I was duped into buying back in '87.

 

[stuff_it]

Tbf it would be handy if a lot of things were simply and clearly labelled "dodgy meat product".

My dog thinks all meat products are 'doggy meat products'.

 

[stuff_it]

Is this a documented thing ?

It's documented by me on my skin, yes. I assume because your skin is your biggest organ it needs the most available protein source to rebuild when it gets really bad.

Your body doesn't so much care where protein comes from, but it's easier for you to turn meat into meat, rather than convert it from vegetarian sources. This is why carnivorous animals have shorter, less complex digestive tracts.

 

[gentlegreen]

It's documented by me on my skin, yes. I assume because your skin is your biggest organ it needs the most available protein source to rebuild when it gets really bad.

Your body doesn't so much care where protein comes from, but it's easier for you to turn meat into meat, rather than convert it from vegetarian sources. This is why carnivorous animals have shorter, less complex digestive tracts.

What did the doctor say about it ?

 

[stuff_it]

What did the doctor say about it ?

They still don't have a proper clue what my diagnosis is. I was on a 2-week wait biopsy a few years ago, they ballsed it up and didn't get a result but never repeated it. They decided it wasn't cancer since I "wasn't dead yet". Likewise if it was HIV the rash would have gone by now...

I've been tested for: all STDs, cancer, lyme disease, and a whole ton of things. Still no diagnosis. At times the secondary infections have almost done for me.

It may or may not be stress-induced eczema, pustular psoriasis, an allergic reaction, some sort of limphoproliferative disease but not sure which one, fuck knows. When it gets bad I have to both eat meat and bathe in salt water to fight off the secondary infections and stand a chance of getting on top of the healing. Luckily I don't scar easily.

 

[editor]

They still don't have a proper clue what my diagnosis is. I was on a 2-week wait biopsy a few years ago, they ballsed it up and didn't get a result but never repeated it. They decided it wasn't cancer since I "wasn't dead yet". Likewise if it was HIV the rash would have gone by now...

I've been tested for: all STDs, cancer, lyme disease, and a whole ton of things. Still no diagnosis. At times the secondary infections have almost done for me.

It may or may not be stress-induced eczema, pustular psoriasis, an allergic reaction, some sort of limphoproliferative disease but not sure which one, fuck knows. When it gets bad I have to both eat meat and bathe in salt water to fight off the secondary infections and stand a chance of getting on top of the healing. Luckily I don't scar easily.

Sorry to hear of your woes. It sounds like you're having a rotten time.

On a not-really related note, I found my eczema cleared up shitloads when I stopped drinking milk and reduced my dairy intake.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Personally as an ex-veggie I won't eat pork as I don't like to think about how smart pigs are, but I understand a lot of people really love bacon. I stick to unprocessed chicken and occasionally beef from good sources. I know it's still far crueller than not eating meat, but when I don't get enough protein from meat my skin condition becomes completely impossible to live with - deep, weeping sores all over that make it too painful to sleep lying down.

Have you tried an elimination diet? There are a number of things that are most often triggers for skin issues: gluten/wheat, corn, soy, dairy, nuts, and eggs. (I've also seen suggestions to take out nightshade veggies, alcohol, and food additives). Take out the main ones and wait about three weeks to see if things improve. If they do, introduce one back each couple of weeks and see what happens. A lot of doctors are happy to help with this and it sounds like it couldn't hurt.

I had similar problems. I had a rash from neck to ankle. It would rise up into water-filled pustules, which would itch like crazy until it burst, and then the process would repeat. I tried an elimination diet and found that it was gluten and dairy. Once I removed those from my diet, my skin cleared up. Any time I put them back in by doing something as simple as eating a piece of toast, its instant rash again.

Some other things that have helped:

* gave up detergent-based soaps, which are most of them now.
* when I get home, I get in the shower and rinse off pollen. I don't even use soap. (There are people who are allergic to water, so if it makes it worse: don't.)
* I take probiotics. There seems to be an association between skin problems and the gut. (The Gut Microbiome as a Major Regulator of the Gut-Skin Axis) (Microbiome in the Gut-Skin Axis in Atopic Dermatitis)

None of the above may be helpful. Good luck, in any case. It can be really miserable.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Saw these in Aldi yesterday. Wonder if it would work for French style rules. They aren't claiming to be sausages.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Saw these in Aldi yesterday. Wonder if it would work for French style rules. They aren't claiming to be sausages.

View attachment 176019

Nausage Rolls.

 

[Rivendelboy]

https://www.gmoscience.org/rat-feed...NO6Y2UfVJRY1Xe_g76ppA-7QroIpFv_ohDV_QNOUdVp8w

Perhaps Impossibly unhealthy too?

 

[karanight]

Oh of course.
Like non alcoholic beer

Yuk

 

[karanight]

how is it comparable?
if it's not for you it's not for you
it clearly helps/works for a lot of others going by the growth of vegan food

Vegan-ism is just the latest fad that will die off as soon as some new kid wins xfactor

 

[Calamity1971]

Vegan-ism is just the latest fad

I think you may be getting confused with fidget spinners and loomie bands.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Vegan-ism is just the latest fad that will die off as soon as some new kid wins xfactor

But.... someone new wins x factor every year. It's something that doesnt die off.... more's the pity...

 

[Baronage-Phase]

@,karanight...What is now called veganism in the west, is actually not a new thing at all.
Many civilisations going back 1000s of years have respected the vegetarian or vegan way.
Pranic eating which encourages a form of vegetarianism has been around for thousands of years..recognising better energy coming from certain fresh vegs and fruit than meat.

But it is all a choice. And nobody is pushing anyone to be anyrhing here.

 

[nyxx]

The whole labelling thing is a funny one.
I had a very confusing time in Beijing: I sought out a restaurant said to have veggie stuff in a guide book. got there, the entire menu was listed as meaty things. No vegetarian section or vegetable dishes at all. It took me a while to understand that the whole menu was plant based, no actual meat was being served at all. But there were the usual things like “bursting belly of pork” listed. All vegetarian imitations.
By the time I’d established that I felt pretty much committed to staying there to eat, so I did, it was generally a bit disconcerting though.

I think there was an emperor who didn’t eat animal products due to religious reasons and demanded his chefs produce food that was just like what the meat versions would be? & the restaurant was sort of part of that legacy. I think.


Polar opposite of the labelling rules France has!