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Bernie is running

TomUS said:
I don't think it's a myth. I have no doubt that Nader gave us Bush. Charlie Cook knows what he's talking about.
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The total number of Nader voters was much lower than the number of registered Democrats who voted for Bush. Gore and the Democratic Party's complete failure to win over and mobilise traditional Democratic voters "gave us Bush". Gore was a terrible candidate. Your only counter argument has been an argument from authority, ie that a life long Democrat blames the opponents of the Democrats rather than the Democrats.

Screaming about Nader is always and everywhere just a demand that left wing voters should vote for corporate neoliberals forever.
 
TomUS said:
Not to surprising in that Bernie isn't a Democrat. He's an independent that caucuses with & usually votes with the Democrats. The Democratic party establishment doesn't like a non-Democrat running for the Democratic nomination.
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Or more precisely, the corporate neoliberal Democratic establishment doesn't like anybody who isn't a corporate neoliberal running for anything.
 
J Ed said:
Shut up poor people, here have a celebrity that is going to insult you... hey why are these people booing?!?
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The booing Birnistas were booing before the "insult" which is why Sarah made the comment. And they richly deserve to be insulted because they are helping a neo-fascist which makes them neo-fascists. They are following the example of the neo-fascist Naderistas. They have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with em.
 
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TomUS said:
The booing Birnistas were booing before the "insult" which is why Sarah made the comment. And they richly deserve to be insulted because they are helping a neo-fascist which makes them neo-fascists. They are following the example of the neo-fascist Naderistas. They have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with em.
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Objectively fascist you say, Comrade Stalin? Bernist wreckers? Get a load of yourself.
 
TomUS said:
The booing Birnistas were booing before the "insult" which is why Sarah made the comment. And they richly deserve to be insulted because they are helping a neo-fascist which makes them neo-fascists. They are following the example of the neo-fascist Naderistas. They have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with em.
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Clinton rigs the nomination and now they have to vote for her or they're fascists? That's simply not an acceptable argument and not an acceptable way to talk about people. Lot of parallels here with the right wing of the UK Labour party. Fuck Trump and fuck Clinton too. If Clinton cheats her way to the nomination against a candidate who could have beaten Trump and then loses then you deserve Trump.
 
We're going to have months of rich liberals calling the US working-class stupid, uneducated and racist and it is going to be even worse than the Remain campaign. I don't want Trump to be president, I didn't even think it was possible, but through the sneering that I can now see is inevitable and has developed a runaway train dynamic of its own it is very possible.

I just don't think US liberals know how to stop punching down and left. That's all they have.
 
The Bernie supporters need to bull their heads out & realize that in politics, like everything else, we have to live in the real world, not a starry eyed idealistic one where we get everything we want. As they boo every time Hillary's name is mentioned & break into chants of Bernie Bernie to interrupt speakers, they make fools of themselves. It's time for them to face reality, accept that their candidate lost, and unite with the rest of the party to defeat Trump.
 
TomUS said:
The Bernie supporters need to bull their heads out & realize that in politics, like everything else, we have to live in the real world, not a starry eyed idealistic one where we get everything we want. As they boo every time Hillary's name is mentioned & break into chants of Bernie Bernie to interrupt speakers, they make fools of themselves. It's time for them to face reality, accept that their candidate lost, and unite with the rest of the party to defeat Trump.
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...by votingin another fascist. Great idea.
 
Biscuitician said:
...by votingin another fascist. Great idea.
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Hillary is no fascist. She's a moderate liberal. She wasn't my first choice either. But this isn't some silly game. We're facing a truly dangerous Repub candidate & party & it's time to get serious & work to defeat them.
 
TomUS said:
The Bernie supporters need to bull their heads out & realize that in politics, like everything else, we have to live in the real world, not a starry eyed idealistic one where we get everything we want. As they boo every time Hillary's name is mentioned & break into chants of Bernie Bernie to interrupt speakers, they make fools of themselves. It's time for them to face reality, accept that their candidate lost, and unite with the rest of the party to defeat Trump.
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Why didn't Clinton supporters consider the real world where Sanders beats Trump but their candidate doesn't?
 
TomUS said:
The Bernie supporters need to bull their heads out & realize that in politics, like everything else, we have to live in the real world, not a starry eyed idealistic one where we get everything we want. As they boo every time Hillary's name is mentioned & break into chants of Bernie Bernie to interrupt speakers, they make fools of themselves. It's time for them to face reality, accept that their candidate lost, and unite with the rest of the party to defeat Trump.
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Liberals have been demanding this for months. What is bizarre is that more Bernie supporters say that they will vote for Clinton than Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama.

Clinton's new job: Persuading diehard fans to back Obama - CNN.com

In a CNN poll released Friday, 60 percent of Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama, but 17 percent said they would vote for McCain and 22 percent, said they would not vote at all if Clinton were not the nominee.
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The Bernie Sanders voters who would choose Trump over Clinton

In an NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey conducted by Hart Research Associates this month, 7% of Sanders voters said they could see themselves supporting Trump. Some 66% said the same for Clinton
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This is despite the fact that they have endured a campaign that everyone knew was rigged against them and now we have proof of that. It's not like it matters on here, there isn't exactly a vast pool of American voters on here, but I can tell you right now that what you are saying and what is being said in places where it actually does matter is going to drive people to Trump or into just not voting at all. You cannot browbeat people into voting for a candidate they hate, and hate with good reason.
 
TomUS said:
Hillary is no fascist. She's a moderate liberal. She wasn't my first choice either. But this isn't some silly game. We're facing a truly dangerous Repub candidate & party & it's time to get serious & work to defeat them.
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If you genuinely want change you wouldn't waste your time with this charade.
 
The mistakes of the Remain campaign are being repeated and amplified by the Clintonites meanwhile the successes of the Leave campaign are being emulated by Trump, it's like a slow motion car crash.
 
Here's what's next for Bernie Sanders:

Our campaign has always been about a grassroots movement of Americans standing up and saying: "Enough is enough. This country and our government belong to all of us, not just a handful of billionaires."

I just finished speaking at the Democratic National Convention, where I addressed the historic nature of our grassroots movement and what's next for our political revolution.

I hope that I made you proud. I know that Jane and I are very proud of you.

Our work will continue in the form of a new group called Our Revolution.The goal of this organization will be no different from the goal of our campaign: we must transform American politics to make our political and economic systems once again responsive to the needs of working families.

We cannot do this alone. All of us must be a part of Our Revolution.
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Our Revolution

It looks like he's decided to wait until after the election and then start his own party. That's where some of us thought it was going to end up eventually.
 
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Yuwipi Woman said:
It looks like he's decided to wait until after the election and then start his own party. That's where some of us thought it was going to end up eventually.
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I hope not. Third parties always lose & it would just help the right. The Bernie movement made some good progress in pushing Hillary & the platform into more progressive positions.
 
TomUS said:
I hope not. Third parties always lose & it would just help the right. The Bernie movement made some good progress in pushing Hillary & the platform into more progressive positions.
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I think the problem with that, is that both parties are acting in such bad faith that working within a party isn't an option any more. Sanders gave working within one of the standard two parties more effort than it probably deserved. They proved that they will do nearly anything to make sure they retain power. If Sanders is going to take his supporters and leave the Democratic party, that's going to leave the party pretty weak.

We may have reached a point where you either start a third party or a revolution.
 
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Biscuitician said:
neither did national elections.
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They certainly did. For example, if Romney had won, the US wouldn't have the significant expansion of health insurance coverage for millions of Obamacare (even though it's not enough). If Gore hadn't had the election stolen by the Republican appointed supreme court (with some help from Nader), the Iraq invasion wouldn't have happened. It matters very much who wins.
 
TomUS said:
They certainly did. For example, if Romney had won, the US wouldn't have the significant expansion of health insurance coverage for millions of Obamacare (even though it's not enough). If Gore hadn't had the election stolen by the Republican appointed supreme court (with some help from Nader), the Iraq invasion wouldn't have happened. It matters very much who wins.
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If you want real change, organise and get active. Anything else is just arranging deckchairs on the titanic
 
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