Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Joe Reilly]

Hi Melly! happy hols and all that.shall be investigating further in the new year. browning is another of those 'professional fascists' who live off 'the movement' and realised that these eejits have money to spend. mr tommy, griffin, edmonds and many others likewise.

Ok, fascists are fascists, but in the interests of our own research we need a little more precision: has edmonds ever 'lived off' the movement in any real sense? Sure, he worked for the party full time but all political movements have full-timers. Equally the notion that all fascists are idiots/charlatans Lecomber et al is also self-defeating. For one simple reason that it's not true.

 

[cantsin]

joe, i most certainly was not 'crowing about the demise of the far right' i was talking about the demise of the bnp in paritcular, riven with ineptitude, greed and corruption. there is still much far right sentiment about on immigration, political asylum and foreign aid and all the little far right grupuscules know it and are trying to capitalise on it (BF, ED ad nauseum). as for the muslim brotherhood and arseholes like choudhary, i class them along with the far right.

for someone who spends so much time / effort opposing the EDL. not sure how contructive / accurate it is to equate a deranged, self publicist like Choudary and his 50 followers with a 100 yr old, pan -arabic , movement like the MB...and then 'class them along with the far right ' .... ????

 

[malatesta32]

Ok, fascists are fascists, but in the interests of our own research we need a little more precision: has edmonds ever 'lived off' the movement in any real sense? Sure, he worked for the party full time but all political movements have full-timers. Equally the notion that all fascists are idiots/charlatans Lecomber et al is also self-defeating. For one simple reason that it's not true.

joe, im answering this even tho you never respond to my questions. the likes of tommy robinson, edmonds, griffin, morrison etc all 'live off' the movement because they dont know how to do anything else, their criminal records restrict employment opps or they have recognised easily accessible funds form the gullible (esp griffin, morrison and robinson). the donate buttons and tacky merchandise are a common sight on the websites of even tiny outfits like BPP. i do not think lecomber is an eejit but if you read the stuff he has been posting recently which i have reposted links to, you can make your own mind up on charlatanism, if being a charlatan means adapting ones views to fit the circumstances to your advantage. any response to post 1686 by the way? whose on which side?

 

[malatesta32]

for someone who spends so much time / effort opposing the EDL. not sure how contructive / accurate it is to equate a deranged, self publicist like Choudary and his 50 followers with a 100 yr old, pan -arabic , movement like the MB...and then 'class them along with the far right ' .... ????

i meant that their viewpoints are all equally repressive and therefore repellent be they homophobic, misogynist, nationalistic, culturally intolerant and so on.

 

[malatesta32]

Ok, fascists are fascists, but in the interests of our own research we need a little more precision: has edmonds ever 'lived off' the movement in any real sense? Sure, he worked for the party full time but all political movements have full-timers. Equally the notion that all fascists are idiots/charlatans Lecomber et al is also self-defeating. For one simple reason that it's not true.

i also wrote over on edl thread:
joe, butchers, granted that AFA mark 2 (actually mark 3) is not really a requirement, but what about when the EDL come to town? do we rely on informal antifascism knowing that local activists usually turn up? also, with the Hope Not Hate split from uncle Gerry, what do you think of Lowles more community focussed ideas?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Ok, fascists are fascists, but in the interests of our own research we need a little more precision: has edmonds ever 'lived off' the movement in any real sense? Sure, he worked for the party full time but all political movements have full-timers. Equally the notion that all fascists are idiots/charlatans Lecomber et al is also self-defeating. For one simple reason that it's not true.

Joe - I was under the impression that Edmonds received a big pay-off from his employer in the 1980's, allowing him to basically live off that and work for the BNP full time (and finance the printing etc of "Holocaust News")?

 

[bignose1]

i also wrote over on edl thread:
joe, butchers, granted that AFA mark 2 (actually mark 3) is not really a requirement, but what about when the EDL come to town? do we rely on informal antifascism knowing that local activists usually turn up? also, with the Hope Not Hate split from uncle Gerry, what do you think of Lowles more community focussed ideas?

Dont hold your breath...

 

[Joe Reilly]

Joe - I was under the impression that Edmonds received a big pay-off from his employer in the 1980's, allowing him to basically live off that and work for the BNP full time (and finance the printing etc of "Holocaust News")?

Well if that's the case he wasn't living off the movement as alleged, it appears to actually have been funding it.

 

[malatesta32]

Joe - I was under the impression that Edmonds received a big pay-off from his employer in the 1980's, allowing him to basically live off that and work for the BNP full time (and finance the printing etc of "Holocaust News")?

in collins book i recall that edmonds was living in welling and had spent his money on the HQ. the was then living with his wife there selling the usual propaganda. from what collins infers he was living there as he had run out of cash and was surviving on cups of tea and old copies of spearhead.

 

[DaveCinzano]

...he was living there as he had run out of cash and was surviving on...old copies of spearhead.

I'm intrigued - warming his hands over a fire fuelled by them? Eating them? Selling them on the streets in the manner of a particularly bigoted Big Issue vendor? Sustaining his bilious black heart by way of a constant rereading of them?

 

[malatesta32]

was being frivolous. collins describes sitting in the squalor of bnp hq drinking tea surrounded by 1,000s of holocaust denial newspapers! p88. worth a read i must say!

 

[frogwoman]

Malatesta would you recommend buying the matthew collins book?

 

[malatesta32]

yes i wd. it is laugh out loud funny in places and paints of the far right as a psychotic lonely drinking club. i laughed out loud in a public place at parts of it!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/review-of-hate-by-matthew-collins/

 

[Joe Reilly]

joe, im answering this even tho you never respond to my questions. the likes of tommy robinson, edmonds, griffin, morrison etc all 'live off' the movement because they dont know how to do anything else, their criminal records restrict employment opps or they have recognised easily accessible funds form the gullible (esp griffin, morrison and robinson). the donate buttons and tacky merchandise are a common sight on the websites of even tiny outfits like BPP. i do not think lecomber is an eejit but if you read the stuff he has been posting recently which i have reposted links to, you can make your own mind up on charlatanism, if being a charlatan means adapting ones views to fit the circumstances to your advantage. any response to post 1686 by the way? whose on which side?

I might be wrong but I wasn't aware that Robinson had a record prior to getting involved politically. True he has accrued a few convictions since put that may have been largely as a result of his high profile in the media and/or buckling under the pressure of it. In any event none of the convictions are such that would prevent employment unless he wanted to be a high court judge or something. Equally again as far as I'm aware neither Edmonds or Griffin had records prior to political involvement. Political offences in other words. But again no real bar to employment. Britian is a hell of a lot more right-wing that the left believes.

Charlatanism according to the Collins dictionary means 'claiming expertise you do not have'. Given that Lecomber was involved from his teens, copped two heavy sentences, was fundamental in re-shaping the BNP into an electoral force, it is simply a jacket that does not fit him in anyway.

The general point I'm making is that the presentation of the far-right as utterly dysfunctional, both as organisations and individuals is a common one. However it comes from seeing anyone outside of the mainstream as some sort of crank. Anti-extremism is not anti-fascism. Because the people who identify with the former, regard the latter with similar scorn.

Look for example at World in Action, who did a rack of (profitable) exposes on the far-right, turn with absolute comfort on the far-left. And in the same way Griffin and Lecomber are routinely traduced on Stormfront, the same methods, indeed sometimes the same form of words, were also employed against leading anti-fascists on the likes Indymedia. On that occassion in a determined campaign to prevent BTF being published.

So while the anti-extremist and anti-fascist agenda's might appear to have a common enemy on occassion, they come from opposing political camps, and it is ultimately disastrous to confuse the two.

 

[malatesta32]

The general point I'm making is that the presentation of the far-right as utterly dysfunctional, both as organisations and individuals is a common one. However it comes from seeing anyone outside of the mainstream as some sort of crank. Anti-extremism is not anti-fascism. Because the people who identify with the former, regard the latter with similar scorn.
Look for example at World in Action, who did a rack of (profitable) exposes on the far-right, turn with absolute comfort on the far-left. And in the same way Griffin and Lecomber are routinely traduced on Stormfront, the same methods, indeed sometimes the same form of words, were also employed against leading anti-fascists on the likes Indymedia. On that occassion in a determined campaign to prevent BTF being published.
So while the anti-extremist and anti-fascist agenda's might appear to have a common enemy on occassion, they come from opposing political camps, and it is ultimately disastrous to confuse the two.

robinson did time before EDL. he was battering his girlfriend when an off duty cop tried to stop him so tommy attacked him. result: 1 year. she was caught with coke but i think got off with it. charlatinism is also fakery and oppprtunism which is what lecomber is up to at the moment judging by the threads i posted earlier. read them to confirm this re: accusations of wrecking bnp etc. see shirtfront 'FBIs Hal Turner had informants in the BNP .'
i am not saying the far right it utterly dysfunctional but it certainly attracts the dysfunctional - holocaust denier, bombers, pedophiles and other sex offenders which i am not going to list here. edl are not in the main extremists but football lads. some members of the bnp etc are extremists and i am not being reductionist in saying this.
the world in action stuff is by 'professional antifascists' whose job it is to talk up the threat. i am sure laryr o hara can happily expand on this as its his area not mine.
as for your point re: indymedia im not familiar with this.

 

[malatesta32]

apologies, it was this wasnt it.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/05/452031.html
it was described in the malatesta blog as 'disgraceful and embarassing.' and ultimately unsuccesful!

 

[frogwoman]

maybe im wrong but i thought the point joe is making is that a huge proportion of them are total scum (sex offenders, paedos, etc) but that doesn't mean that they're necc dysfunctional in the sense that they barely capable of mananging to get out of bed, holding down job, (espeically if their "job" is in the fash milieux) and even if they are, they're not (always) sufficiently nuts as to interfere with the party's "work" if you see what i mean. thats how i read his post anyway

 

[malatesta32]

i take dysfunctional to mean people who think the holocaust was a good idea, that bombing people is a good idea and that hitler was a top hole chappie and dont understand why anyone thinks otherwise! the edl are not dysfunctional and neither are the majority of bnp voters but nazi apologists etc certainly are. maybe collins' book haswarped my 'fragile little mind' cos thats the impression he gives.

 

[frogwoman]

to us yeah, but that's because we're not fash, to them its a "traditional strand of National Socialist "thought" ! "

 

[malatesta32]

but isnt that dysfuntional? advocating mass murder?

 

[frogwoman]

but isnt that dysfuntional? advocating mass murder?

Yep ...

 

[malatesta32]

phew!

 

[frogwoman]

i do hope you're not wanting to suppress their freedoms, malatesta

 

[malatesta32]

lecomber on shirtfront is saying he did time for assaulting an AFA member whereas others say it was a disabled person. anyone clarify?

 

[Joe Reilly]

lecomber on shirtfront is saying he did time for assaulting an AFA member whereas others say it was a disabled person. anyone clarify?

He was a Jewish school teacher who was also an AFA member - came over from ANL I believe. How did Lecomber know he was AFA? He was putting up AFA stickers at the time. Predictably you will see no mention of his AFA membership when the story is recounted by liberal/searchlight propagandists. Instead all you have is his Jewishness, his passivity, not his active political opposition. The implication being that he was attacked simply for being a Jew. Which is handy for them, but also - a deliberate falsehood.

 

[Joe Reilly]

maybe im wrong but i thought the point joe is making is that a huge proportion of them are total scum (sex offenders, paedos, etc) but that doesn't mean that they're necc dysfunctional in the sense that they barely capable of mananging to get out of bed, holding down job, (espeically if their "job" is in the fash milieux) and even if they are, they're not (always) sufficiently nuts as to interfere with the party's "work" if you see what i mean. thats how i read his post anyway

Precisely.

 

[Joe Reilly]

but isnt that dysfuntional? advocating mass murder?

For much of the 20th century much of the Left, sought to justify mass murder - re the Bolsheviks and then later Stalin. For a period between the late 60's up to late 70's publicly, the left also sought to explain/justify paedophilia...just saying...

 

[Joe Reilly]

maybe collins' book haswarped my 'fragile little mind' cos thats the impression he gives.

Yes, but take heed of my previous warning. Collins might have turned away from fascism but what has he turned toward instead?

Not anti-fascism if his suspected role in trying to prevent BTF being publishedis accurate.

Instead his take, if what I have read about his book is accurate, is the classic one size fits all, 'plague on both your houses' state friendly anti-extremism.

For all I know that might be your take on things too, (but even then it is still important to distinguish between the two), and if it isn't, sceptism must be the order of the day.

 

[malatesta32]

For much of the 20th century much of the Left, sought to justify mass murder - re the Bolsheviks and then later Stalin. For a period between the late 60's up to late 70's publicly, the left also sought to explain/justify paedophilia...just saying...

the anarchists werent!

 

[Red Storm]

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(posted on wrong thread)