I thought they were still going? What was the business about the play park in Blackbird Leys about?
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
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I thought they were still going? What was the business about the play park in Blackbird Leys about?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
My own view is that the one of the IWCA strategy's biggest weaknesses is that it far less effective in areas where identification as a "working class community" is absent. This can apply in areas with highly transient populations, areas where class composition is more mixed or where identification as m/c (accurately or not) is predominant, areas where other communities (faith, national origin, whatever) are predominant etc. etc.
Most areas I've lived in the UK fall into one or more of these. I've only lived, and briefly, in one area where identification as a w/c community would resonate and even there it would be contested by other notions of community.
This means that for many of us sympathetic to the IWCA it's a non-starter, or worse a blind alley.
Not for all of us though, I hope.
Most areas I've lived in the UK fall into one or more of these. I've only lived, and briefly, in one area where identification as a w/c community would resonate and even there it would be contested by other notions of community.
This means that for many of us sympathetic to the IWCA it's a non-starter, or worse a blind alley.
Not for all of us though, I hope.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Think there's a role for that sort of work in many places, actually think that and things like Hastings Solidarity, Angry Workers, and the Essex lot need to be replicated across the country and be a key plank in a political strategy. They key is not only people getting this political direction and then working on it but, as you say, people having the time and energy (and staying power) for it.
E2A: Have started working on something along these lines where some of us live. Will post something on here sometime soon.
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chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...and, yeah, I keep moving too.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I think it's easy to underestimate how much of a problem for effective political organizing that actually is! Same for work places and type of employment.
They are still going. That doesn’t stop people demanding a post mortem though.
newbie
undisambiguated
Even then it seems likely to require factors other that purely w/c identification. I grew up on a very stereotypical w/c estate (not so far from Blackbird Leys as it goes, I used to go there as a teenager), where my dad's been on the TA cttee for decades. They know they're working class but they return Tory councillors and MP every time they have an opportunity. The chances that an appeal for solidarity on the basis of class oppression could take root strike me as miniscule.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
going back to what joe reilly said:
jr's central point is that there is a continuing desperate need for a plausible alternative to far right parties. despite its best efforts, the iwca hasn't managed to be that plausible alternative. if it's something which is still considered to be necessary, it is important to learn from those aspects of the iwca experience, the shared experiences of activists involved, to see what they'd do differently: and what they'd do the same again. not interested in bashing the iwca, there's no point.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
For sure, I think if that's the first line of discussion you take with people when talking to them you'll sound like something like...
Bur if you talk about bad landlords, exploitative bosses, working for a shit wage, communalizing of resources for the common good, helping each other out, etc. etc. you get a pretty good reception ime.
newbie
undisambiguated
fair enough but I'm posting on U75 and was trying to be concise.
Even so, discussing the things you mention simply leads to eye rolling, words like 'scroungers' and 'immigrants' and a whole pile of Daily Mail attitudes. I know I'm personally not cut out to be a community activist but I'm very doubtful it's fertile ground for any sort of leftist initiative.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, depending on where you live it can do. I live in a poor area with a really high level of unemployment and immigration so those aren't likely to be the issues raised here (and if they are they usually are raised by people that emigrated here from India/Pakistan a generation ago).
But when these things come up they need to be discussed and argued against otherwise we're fucking doomed. And tbh they're not really very sophisticated lines to counter.
Community activist - fuck off, we're revolutionary militants organizing in our neighborhood.
newbie
undisambiguated
that's just a modern take on it.Community activist - fuck off, we're revolutionary militants organizing in our neighborhood.
Many years ago there was a magazine (remember them?) called Community Action where such things got discussed from a left/liberal professional pov (for advice workers & the like). One of the enduring topics was treading the fine line between educate/agitate/organising politically within a community and becoming a social caseworker dealing with a succession of personal issues. I've since read that Libdem style pavement politics often founders around burnout caused by trying to stem the flow of individuals needing help with benefits, landlords or whatever. I guess that IWCA activists will have had to try to navigate through similar waters, as will revolutionary militants.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, to some extent it's old school political agitation, nowt new under the sun and that. It just now comes with the added complexity of doing it in a time when people have lost their traditional social/work support mechanisms so that stuff comes into it as well.
One of the uncomfortable issues we're having to face is exploitation of people (through landlordism largely) by some quite nasty individuals and gangs (often immigrants themselves), and how to deal with that. I think we're very quickly going to come up against things that require us to have some sort of quite forceful (even as possibility as much as actuality) response which is a frightening and complex position.
E2A: Before it sounds like we've got something big going, we're a very small number of people just making the first steps with this stuff after quite a lengthy process of slowly working some things out.
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newbie
undisambiguated
yeah, how does organising within a geographic/economic community fit within the parameters of modern social network communities of interest where eg American alt-right memes are reproduced and localised here within hours and can gain more traction that anything local. e2a ?
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I'm not sure that either the IWCA ,or other groups that have used a similar strategy, have walked into an off the peg perfect area that has already self identified as a working class community. All the factors that you mention may well be challenges but I'm not sure what evidence you have for leaping into the non starter/blind alley conclusion.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, I think we're 'lucky' in that people are not 'connected' in that way here and that stuff (the alt-right scene in the US/UK) might as well be on fucking Mars for all most people that live in this area care or know.
We got some friendly criticism from comrades that our first newsletter looked a big lefty/SWP like (red and black, simple design, etc.) and that was a fair point. But in talking to people we're finding they mostly don't have a clue who the Labour Party are, let alone have seen an SWP leaflet at any point. They're more likely to mistake it for a pizza delivery flyer.
The other answer to that problem is being in it for the long haul - and I don't mean six months, I mean like 20 years plus really. The alt-right stuff will fade and mutate (I suspect) over time, and to some extent we beat it just by being around for longer and more consistently. And also there's no real alt-right presence here on the streets around here, if there was that might be a different problem for sure.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Social media and modern social network communities can be used by anyone . In my experience community facebook groups are full of local issues that people want to discuss and want something to be done with occasional derails into things off the planet. Someone retweeting some gormless junk by Paul Joseph Watson doesn't mean that a local issue of say anti social behaviour or the local post office closing is going to go away.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
my plans aren't so advanced so i'm starting up half brick solidarity
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I follow South East Radical Media on Twitter , terrible name but they seem to be doing some good work locally.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
That's been my experience.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...and to be clear I don't mean the IWCA model is a non-starter.
Just that in some areas it is.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Ok, I'm not going to deny your experience but I'm interested in learning more about it if you like to share
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I don't want to get into the specifics right here/now.
But the barriers I mentioned above were central to those experiences of this strategy not working. At those times and in those places.
They're also now present where I live, and were I to find like-minded people in the community (obstacle number one that wasn't present in my earlier experiences) isuspect we'd quickly run into similar problems...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Well give it some thought mate because I'm sure your experiences are worth sharing at some point.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Maybe. Just don't want to dredge up too much from a not particularly great time in my life.
newbie
undisambiguated
my alt-right reference was merely an easy, or lazy, example, based on a recent conversation with someone I know. I hope it does vanish and in a lot less than 20 years.
As for 'being around for longer and more consistently', if you want credibility that's massively important. I've seen community activism come and go around here, the last immediately local burst rather foundered when half the group went off to live elsewhere
. I felt old and cynical when they suddenly started buzzing around everything- tbh it felt a bit like with the Mormon missionaries that show up every now and then to bring the Word to us vulnerable natives, to save us from our ignorance because we're obviously blank canvasses crying out for our betters to dig us out of our mire- and then they left a year or two later.
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newbie
undisambiguated
I get that, I was asking a question, "how does organising...?" (although I do now realise I missed the question mark off the end)
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
As for 'being around for longer and more consistently', if you want credibility that's massively important. I've seen community activism come and go around here, the last burst rather foundered when half the group went off to live elsewhere
...and for those of us that do move around quite a lot this is a problem too. I'm rarely in a place for more than a few years. Nevermind the same house/streets/neighborhood. I think four years is the longest I've managed at an address in more than a quarter of a century.
But I'm not alone in this. My current neighborhood is full of people doing just this.
newbie
undisambiguated
So's mine. I've lived in this house for a long time but there's always been huge amounts of churn all around me.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
teach you to live in a creamery
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