malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
cheers feds! werent they something to do with that BNP welling doco?
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
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malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
thanks! shall have a squizz!
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Yes. There was a short interview which was part of that doco, it was referring to the time in September 1983 when the BNP got done at their Brick Lane paper sale, it was the Sunday after Beackon got elected.
There was an article in a black newspaper, can't rememebr if it was The Voice, that criticised the AT for singing Rule Britannia etc etc and marching into the BNP-the singing made plod let them into the BNP paper sale-which was their first mistake.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
yeah i remember that doco now. as for the criticism about the singing AFs, that is one of the best 'cunning plans' AF story going! i feel their ire was sparked less by the singing and more by the militancy that ensued!!! unless you were really crap singers of course.
bignose1
Searchlight Spoiler
More like Rule Batteringya....When I went up to Scotland on an NUS speaking tour in the late 80's ( I did 2 think the other one was 91'ish)I stayed with TS and some of the Millies who I liked and we were looked after at all the venues. Met Jim Murphy and he seemed sound. I didnt get the impression of any great hostility between AFA/Millies but I do take Wee S's account as an honest depiction when he refers to the Glasgow AFA make up. I travelled up and down quite a bit around that time I was seeing a lass who was knocking around with Militant and who had some family members and friends who were Rangers supporters but fiercely anti-fash. I went to quite a few Celtic games but on a couple of occasions went to some Rangers games and met some of these lads. Generally not my cup of tea but didnt seem at all as bad as some I know...there usually those that live in England!! I was also friendly with a guy called Michael S who I met through another relative from Milngavie....he was killed recently following a fight outside a bar. His pals were spot on and although they wernt as you say 'political' they hated the fash. A mixed bunch..yeah some criminal shenaniganss..no doubt...but I never took them as bigots. match day though can bring the worse out of you as Im only too aware ( though never ever sang Hillsboro songs)...Seeing a City work mate arms wide doing the Munich at the game...he was so embarrassed that he said he'd wear a united scarf all day as pennance.!!
framed
Leave it!
One point on that mate is that Militant were the masters of telling people what they wanted to hear. They wanted to cultivate a relationship with Searchlight at that time and bent over backwards to accommodate you. Tommy could charm the pants off anyone, male or female 
but he was an actor playing a part. You only have to read Alan McCombes' recent book on him to understand the amount of manipulation that went on. Alan has had a bit of a Damascian conversion himself, considering the behind the scenes role that he played in all of it. If Tommy was the monster, Alan was the Dr Frankenstein who created him.
Behind that charm offensive was a cynical ploy to outmanoeuvre their rivals on the left.
I remember them presenting that wee gang of urchins from Pollock at various events and thought, 'Fuck me, you lads don't know what they're getting you into..." On mobilisations those kids were told not to talk to us, it was insane. One of our lads was talking to one of the Pollock Bushwacker gang at some lefty demo and McNeilage walked over and without a word and not knowing what the conversation was about, he aggressively pulled the kid away. They feared that their rawest working class members might actually find that they had more in common with us than they had been led to believe, so the answer was to tell them horror stories about us all being 'sectarian bigots' and 'IRA'. And if that didn't work there was always Big Bully George to pull them back into line.
You got the charm offensive, but those of us on the ground in Glasgow saw the real face of an organisation that were once described by another Red Action wag as being "the sectarian's sectarians".
Here's one example and I hope Fed doesn't mind me using it. When Fed first came to Glasgow he was obviously given the Militant line on me as a 'traitor' to their organisation, because I had once been a member and had now taken a different political path. Militant could not tolerate ex-members who stayed politically active. If you resigned or left the organisation you were generally encouraged to remain inactive. Those who didn't lay down and die and who took an opposing view to theirs were vilified and their characters assassinated in the good old Stalinist tradition. Fed had come up from England and had a different approach, he became friendly with a couple of our members on the Southside. Unfortunately he also repeated stuff about me that was pure lies and straight out of the mouths of people like McCombes and Sheridan. He wasn't to know, he took the leadership of Militant in Glasgow at face value and considered them to be politically honest. As a result of that our lads didn't develop a political relationship with someone that in hindsight we should have worked with and who would have been an asset to any anti-fascist organisation.
It wasn't until years later in 1997 at the General Election count that me and Fed actually had a face-to-face conversation. To their credit (and as a result of them being under pressure from the fash inside the count) McCombes and other Millies organised to get AFA into the count. As we were milling around considering our options, Fed came over to me and said, "S, you probably hate me but I'm up for it and if youse are going to get into them there's some of us who'll go for it with you..."
My reply, as I recall it, was, "Mate, I don't know you well enough to hate you and I don't give a fcuk about all that shite, let's get into them..." And we did!
But that one simple event brought home to me how many more we could have worked with, should have worked with, but were thwarted from doing so by the sectarian poison of their political leaders. I am also not saying that we were always right and never at fault for any of the bad feeling between organisations, but in my experience when people actually came together and fought the fascists as one the artificial political barriers that existed between us were almost always lifted.
It was that spontaneous class solidarity in the face of the enemy that seemed to frighten the political leadership of organisations like the SWP and MIlitant.
but he was an actor playing a part. You only have to read Alan McCombes' recent book on him to understand the amount of manipulation that went on. Alan has had a bit of a Damascian conversion himself, considering the behind the scenes role that he played in all of it. If Tommy was the monster, Alan was the Dr Frankenstein who created him.Behind that charm offensive was a cynical ploy to outmanoeuvre their rivals on the left.
I remember them presenting that wee gang of urchins from Pollock at various events and thought, 'Fuck me, you lads don't know what they're getting you into..." On mobilisations those kids were told not to talk to us, it was insane. One of our lads was talking to one of the Pollock Bushwacker gang at some lefty demo and McNeilage walked over and without a word and not knowing what the conversation was about, he aggressively pulled the kid away. They feared that their rawest working class members might actually find that they had more in common with us than they had been led to believe, so the answer was to tell them horror stories about us all being 'sectarian bigots' and 'IRA'. And if that didn't work there was always Big Bully George to pull them back into line.
You got the charm offensive, but those of us on the ground in Glasgow saw the real face of an organisation that were once described by another Red Action wag as being "the sectarian's sectarians".
Here's one example and I hope Fed doesn't mind me using it. When Fed first came to Glasgow he was obviously given the Militant line on me as a 'traitor' to their organisation, because I had once been a member and had now taken a different political path. Militant could not tolerate ex-members who stayed politically active. If you resigned or left the organisation you were generally encouraged to remain inactive. Those who didn't lay down and die and who took an opposing view to theirs were vilified and their characters assassinated in the good old Stalinist tradition. Fed had come up from England and had a different approach, he became friendly with a couple of our members on the Southside. Unfortunately he also repeated stuff about me that was pure lies and straight out of the mouths of people like McCombes and Sheridan. He wasn't to know, he took the leadership of Militant in Glasgow at face value and considered them to be politically honest. As a result of that our lads didn't develop a political relationship with someone that in hindsight we should have worked with and who would have been an asset to any anti-fascist organisation.
It wasn't until years later in 1997 at the General Election count that me and Fed actually had a face-to-face conversation. To their credit (and as a result of them being under pressure from the fash inside the count) McCombes and other Millies organised to get AFA into the count. As we were milling around considering our options, Fed came over to me and said, "S, you probably hate me but I'm up for it and if youse are going to get into them there's some of us who'll go for it with you..."
My reply, as I recall it, was, "Mate, I don't know you well enough to hate you and I don't give a fcuk about all that shite, let's get into them..." And we did!
But that one simple event brought home to me how many more we could have worked with, should have worked with, but were thwarted from doing so by the sectarian poison of their political leaders. I am also not saying that we were always right and never at fault for any of the bad feeling between organisations, but in my experience when people actually came together and fought the fascists as one the artificial political barriers that existed between us were almost always lifted.
It was that spontaneous class solidarity in the face of the enemy that seemed to frighten the political leadership of organisations like the SWP and MIlitant.
bignose1
Searchlight Spoiler
When a few of us went to a pre-season game a few years ago against Celtic we got lobbed out 10 mins before half time...for being far too pissed. We ended up in a Rangers bar not far from Celtic Park to wait out the game and meet our lift( we had to get straight off as one of the lads we were with was flying out to his unit next day ) We were a bit noisy and the barman reluctantly served us. Got the feeling we were being tee'd up as a few calls were being made on mobiles. Dont like this I whispered to my pals. Your right one said Ive just been speaking to one of the guys in the toilet and he thinks your Tony O'Neill and he's getting a few pals together. Oh f**k I said...(it wasnt long after Utd had been up to Ibrox mob handed and given a good account). But it wasnt all Rangers fans who started to arrive but Celtic lads too wanting a pop......Thankfully our lift, a people carrier had arrived as a full can of red bull missed me by inches as I dived through the sliding side door. The others followed in a similar fashion..and thankfully no traffic. I suppose it was an example of the preconceptions of the whole sectarian thing....maybe a crude example and Im sure there are many times this doesnt happen but my pals were gobsmacked !
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
One point on that mate is that Militant were the masters of telling people what they wanted to hear. They wanted to cultivate a relationship with Searchlight at that time and bent over backwards to accommodate you. Tommy could charm the pants off anyone, male of female
Behind that charm offensive was a cynical ploy to outmanoeuvre their rivals on the left.
I remember them presenting that wee gang of urchins from Pollock at various events and thought, 'Fuck me, you lads don't know what they're getting you into..." On mobilisations those kids were told not to talk to us, it was insane. One of our lads was talking to one of the Pollock Bushwacker gang at some lefty demo and McNeilage walked over and without a word and not knowing what the conversation was about, he aggressively pulled the kid away. They feared that their rawest working class members might actually find that they had more in common with us than they had been led to believe, so the answer was to tell them horror stories about us all being 'sectarian bigots' and 'IRA'.
You got the charm offensive, but those of us on the ground in Glasgow saw the real face of an organisation that were once described by another Red Action wag as being "the sectarian's sectarians".
Here's one example and I hope Fed doesn't mind me using it. When Fed first came to Glasgow he was obviously given the Militant line on me as a 'traitor' to their organisation, because I had once been a member and had now taken a different political path. Militant could not tolerate ex-members who stayed politically active. If you resigned or left the organisation you were generally encouraged to remain inactive. Those who didn't lay down and die and who took an opposing view to theirs were vilified and their characters assassinated in the good old Stalinist tradition. Fed had come up from England and had a different approach, he became friendly with a couple of our members on the Southside. Unfortunately he also repeated stuff about me that was pure lies and straight out of the mouths of people like McCombes and Sheridan. He wasn't to know, he took the leadership of Militant in Glasgow at face value and considered them to be politically honest. As a result of that our lads didn't develop a political relationship with someone that in hindsight we should have worked with and who would have been an asset to any anti-fascist organisation.
It wasn't until years later in 1997 at the General Election count that me and Fed actually had a face-to-face conversation. To their credit (and as a result of them being under pressure from the fash inside the count) McCombes and other Millies organised to get AFA into the count. As we were milling around considering our options, Fed came over to me and said, "S, you probably hate me but I'm up for it and if youse are going to get into them there's some of us who'll go for it with you..."
My reply, as I recall it, was, "Mate, I don't know you well enough to hate you and I don't give a fcuk about all that shite, let's get into them..." And we did!
But that one simple event brought home to me how many more we could have worked with, should have worked with, but were thwarted from doing so by the sectarian poison of their political leaders. I am also not saying that we were always right and never at fault for any of the bad feeling between organsations, but in my experience when people actually came together and fought the fascists as one the artificial political barriers that existed between us were almost always lifted, regardless of what the political gurus of the SWP and MIlitant might want.
I was explaining that story to someone the other day, it remains a mistake imho that the division was created. Imho the then Militant had far far bigger issues with the SWP than it ever should/did have with AFA and yet still worked with them, critically it has to be said.
I saw the 2 said chaps at the game on Saturday.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
As an aside the night of the election count we had the spares to get people in, you might remember RS the older FTer at the time? He argued we shouldn't hand out the spares/extras to anyone but SSA/SML members/supporters, he was told, by lots of individual members of SML/SSA of the people who needed in and his argument was pish as there was people prepared and willing to do a job waiting outside and we had the spares to get them in. I'm not saying he amd AMcC had an argument but they had a difference of opinion and RS lost.
framed
Leave it!
They actually went out of their way to keep good working class militants apart and all based on an incorrect interpretation of 'sectarianism' and a personal hatred of an ex-member who they regarded as a greater 'enemy' than the fash. It stinks.
I amended the conclusion of that post to this, which I think is probably more accurate:
It was that spontaneous class solidarity in the face of the enemy that seemed to frighten the political leadership of organisations like the SWP and MIlitant.
I amended the conclusion of that post to this, which I think is probably more accurate:
It was that spontaneous class solidarity in the face of the enemy that seemed to frighten the political leadership of organisations like the SWP and MIlitant.
framed
Leave it!
Don't doubt that for a minute mate. RS was a poisonous bastard who hated me when I was in Militant. Another fucking social worker... I rest my case.
I remember the other one that night who was red in the face and spitting hate was GmcG, the man who lost his teeth in that previous encounter.
bignose1
Searchlight Spoiler
There used to be a decent millie guy who lived in Castlemilk ( high rise) who I liked but his names gone....He used to get on with some of the GAFA bunchDon't doubt that for a minute mate. RS was a poisonous bastard who hated me when I was in Militant. Another fucking social worker... I rest my case.
I remember the other one that night who was red in the face and spitting hate was GmcG, the man who lost his teeth in that previous encounter.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Don't doubt that for a minute mate. RS was a poisonous bastard who hated me when I was in Militant. Another fucking social worker... I rest my case.
I remember the other one that night who was red in the face and spitting hate was GmcG, the man who lost his teeth in that previous encounter.
A few agreed with RS shall we say. The other person in that encounter agreed with AFA lads getting tickets.
Possibly JH, a former building worker and a bear of a man, absolute diamond of a man. He lived in the Mitchelhill flats at the back end of Castlemilk.
bignose1
Searchlight Spoiler
Poss....he was a big lad and had a warm face( dont mean temperature)....that was a bit deceptive I reckon in times of crisis!!
(sandy hair and a few freckles...quiet spoken)
And that was AFTER the heavy duty nose reduction surgery !
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
were you in auf wiederseihen pet Bignose?
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
He looks no stranger to either pushing pineapples or grinding coffee.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
brave is the man who puts a photo of himself in the 80s. this is me!
framed
Leave it!
Fed, I knew that D was a reluctant participant in that spat. He was a person that I had political respect for, as was G to be honest. I had worked with both of them, the fast turnaround from comradeship to personal hatred is a pathological trait of the sect, whether it's political or religious. Dissent is verboten.
93 mate. Saw it happen. Brilliant.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I made the understandable error of going into O'Neils local in Manchester wearing a Chelsea shirt straight after we beat United 3-0 and won the league. Nearly got stabbed.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
understandable error? fucking lunacy!
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