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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

malatesta32 said:
as sol said earlier:
'It has to be mentioned again, that the only course of effective action surrounding this and other events is to discreetly organise mobile stewards groups away from the march but who can intervene in a physical manner should it be deemed opportune.'
walking alongside demos means quickly avoiding kettles and being able to breakaway from the main body without being impeded in small groups. im not au fait with the intricacies of republican groups but i would strongly reccomend what framed said above:
'The march will be stewarded by the police, the Cairde stewards will be there to co-operate with the police and keep order on the march, do not expect them to co-operate with militant anti-fascists, on or off the march.'
keep your own council. antifascists attending are not there to support republicans but to act as an antifascist presence in response to a fascist threat. like we are not there to 'protect muslims.'
Click to expand...

Corrected for you.
 
framed said:
I was tempted to contribute but thought better of it... I made the same points that I made here yesterday on the AFA Ireland facebook page regarding the James Larkin 'anti-racist' march and I can assure you that there are 'fuckbugles' on each side who are intent on pursuing their own selfish little agendas at the expense of working class unity in Liverpool.

Supporters of mainstream Irish republicanism over here have no strategy with regard to their own movement and its aims (which appear to be ever changing) and imho they have no strategy and little to contribute to the fight against racism and fascism, especially as they folow a liberal anti-racist agenda that includes (bizarrely imho) appeals to the British state to protect and steward their marches. This is entirely in keeping with Sinn Fein's new found respect for the police and other state institutions.

If further proof were needed of the liberal pro-state approach, Saturday's event includes two supporters of Searchlight on the platform of speakers.


BTW, just a suggestion, but shouldn't these posts on Liverpool be on a thread of their own, or is it ok to continue with this discussion on the BTF thread?
Click to expand...

The analysis put forward by Framed over a number of posts has been absolutely spot on imho.

Looking at the speakers these seem to consist of Billy Hayes from CWU (but wearing his UAF funding/supporting hat) and the NW UAF Regional Chair. So is UAF mobilising for this march and if so to what ends and is the UAF now openly supporting JLS/SF or just the 'working class unity' bit that was tagged on at the 11th hour?

The more you examine it the more incoherent it becomes.
 
Wait, why would there be an organisation linked to (P)SF called the James Larkin Society? Larkin was never a Sinn Fein member or supporter, and his life overlapped with the existence of Sinn Fein for 42 years, so he had no shortage of opportunity to join SF if he wanted to.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
Wait, why would there be an organisation linked to (P)SF called the James Larkin Society? Larkin was never a Sinn Fein member or supporter, and his life overlapped with the existence of Sinn Fein for 42 years, so he had no shortage of opportunity to join SF if he wanted to.
Click to expand...

Technically correct Nigel, but Larkin was himself full of political contradictions. His Irish Workers League certainly co-operated with the anti-Treaty IRA, so SF supporters and other republican groups would not view their adoption of him as entirely politically incongruous.

It might be easier to find a left and/or republican group that doesn't claim Larkin and Connolly as their own.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
Wait, why would there be an organisation linked to (P)SF called the James Larkin Society? Larkin was never a Sinn Fein member or supporter, and his life overlapped with the existence of Sinn Fein for 42 years, so he had no shortage of opportunity to join SF if he wanted to.
Click to expand...

When Larkin addressed the Dublin Lockout meeting in 1913 it was violently attacked by the police. Those marching in his name on Saturday are demanding the police protect the JLS from the far right. An irony certain to be missed by those involved.
 
malatesta32 said:
clueless fuckbugles on comments about AFA:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/07/497944.html
Click to expand...

In the kerfuffle on there is a reference to page 203 in No Retreat where Hann apparently refers to the 'war in Ireland being a tricky one for AFA'. Which is rather odd.

As from the outset AFA resisted all attempts by a variety of lobbying interests (the Israeli - Palestenian conflict) for example to embrace their pet project as anti-fascist, but AFA always correctly resisted on principle. The principle being that AFA was a single issue organisation.
Accordingly AFA had no position on Ireland either. That was what Red Action was for, if that was your political bent.

That Hann, who was for a time a member of both RA and AFA, still thought it 'tricky' is instructive.
 
framed said:
Technically correct Nigel, but Larkin was himself full of political contradictions. His Irish Workers League certainly co-operated with the anti-Treaty IRA, so SF supporters and other republican groups would not view their adoption of him as entirely politically incongruous.
Click to expand...

Connolly is a slightly different kettle of fish because he was shot. So although his own political affiliations are completely clear - he was a member of a succession of Marxist organisations and pushed for the founding of a Labour Party - he's easier to falsely claim for various other political projects. But Larkin lived a relatively long life. He was in the IWL (ie the CP) and he was in the Labour Party and he was an independent. But he very specifically never joined or supported a republican group. So generally he's left alone by the likes of Fianna Fail (who have often tried to coopt Connolly on much the same basis that SF do), and in so far as SF do try to retrospectively rewrite his politics they do it very quietly. So I'm a little surprised to see a PSF affiliated Larkin Society.
 
Joe Reilly said:
Who they?
Click to expand...

Alec McFadden, ostensibly representing the local Trades Union Council, but long time associate of Searchlight. He was a founding member and activist with TWAFA before he moved to Merseyside.

The other, as far as I am aware, is the UAF fella previously mentioned.
 
Joe Reilly said:
In the kerfuffle on there is a reference to page 203 in No Retreat where Hann apparently refers to the 'war in Ireland being a tricky one for AFA'. Which is rather odd.

As from the outset AFA resisted all attempts by a variety of lobbying interests (the Israeli - Palestenian conflict) for example to embrace their pet project as anti-fascist, but AFA always correctly resisted on principle. The principle being that AFA was a single issue organisation.
Accordingly AFA had no position on Ireland either. That was what Red Action was for, if that was your political bent.

That Hann, who was for a time a member of both RA and AFA, still thought it 'tricky' is instructive.
Click to expand...
those bugles clearly havent understood that AFA was a very broad outfit and are talking shite on indymedia.
 
I know recently there was a discussion about BTF at the Oxford Working Class History month and one also last year in Belfast at the Anti Racism World Cup. Were any of these discussions ever recorded in any format (video/audio)?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
The analysis put forward by Framed over a number of posts has been absolutely spot on imho.

Looking at the speakers these seem to consist of Billy Hayes from CWU (but wearing his UAF funding/supporting hat) and the NW UAF Regional Chair. So is UAF mobilising for this march and if so to what ends and is the UAF now openly supporting JLS/SF or just the 'working class unity' bit that was tagged on at the 11th hour?

The more you examine it the more incoherent it becomes.
Click to expand...

Well spotted re working class unity, its become a well parroted phrase meaning anything to anyone or nothing at all.
 
Joe Reilly said:
In the kerfuffle on there is a reference to page 203 in No Retreat where Hann apparently refers to the 'war in Ireland being a tricky one for AFA'. Which is rather odd.

As from the outset AFA resisted all attempts by a variety of lobbying interests (the Israeli - Palestenian conflict) for example to embrace their pet project as anti-fascist, but AFA always correctly resisted on principle. The principle being that AFA was a single issue organisation.
Accordingly AFA had no position on Ireland either. That was what Red Action was for, if that was your political bent.

That Hann, who was for a time a member of both RA and AFA, still thought it 'tricky' is instructive.
Click to expand...

(PH???)
 
Red About Town said:
I know recently there was a discussion about BTF at the Oxford Working Class History month and one also last year in Belfast at the Anti Racism World Cup. Were any of these discussions ever recorded in any format (video/audio)?
Click to expand...
love detective had mentioned that the talk on BTF was going to be recorded to pu on RA website. dunno if it was but i wd really like to get a listen. cd it go on AFA archive for the moment till the RA thing is ready?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
The analysis put forward by Framed over a number of posts has been absolutely spot on imho.

Looking at the speakers these seem to consist of Billy Hayes from CWU (but wearing his UAF funding/supporting hat) and the NW UAF Regional Chair. So is UAF mobilising for this march and if so to what ends and is the UAF now openly supporting JLS/SF or just the 'working class unity' bit that was tagged on at the 11th hour?

The more you examine it the more incoherent it becomes.
Click to expand...
it seems the fash are the only ones with a unified idea of what this march is about - even if it is completely wrong.
 
malatesta32 said:
love detective had mentioned that the talk on BTF was going to be recorded to pu on RA website. dunno if it was but i wd really like to get a listen. cd it go on AFA archive for the moment till the RA thing is ready?
Click to expand...

There was a bit of a mixup on the day unfortunately which meant the thing wasn't filmed as planned
 
didnt quite now where to put this but what do folk think of richard clutterbuck (no spins on his name please)? either copsey or renton [?] were suitably scathing about him being a crank/ex-intel type. any ideas?
 
yeah it is, there is some interesting stuff but for some reason he sees militant antifascism in a not great light!!! im sure hes ex-intel tho.
 
malatesta32 said:
yeah it is, there is some interesting stuff but for some reason he sees militant antifascism in a not great light!!! im sure hes ex-intel tho.
Click to expand...

The blurb on the back of the nearest Clutterbuck I have to hand describes him as a former British Army Major-General, an academic at the University of Exeter, and formerly of the BBC Advisory Council.

A while since I read him, but in my head he appears to be filed alongside Paul Wilkinson as '80s era go-to writer for opinions on political violence'.
 
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