Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[littlebabyjesus]

These threads always bring out your inner Daily Mail journalist don't they?

You do believe that it is wrong for humans to exploit other animals in any way, though, no? Using them 'instrumentally', I think was your term.

 

[NoXion]

These threads always bring out your inner Daily Mail journalist don't they?

If you think one has to be a Daily Mail journalist to find vegan activists tiresome, then you're operating inside quite a small political bubble.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The good news is that, despite people like you having their head up the arse, technological changes will wipe these abusive industries off the face of the earth within the next decade, and not before time.

I'll have 50 quid on that.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

If you think one has to be a Daily Mail journalist to find vegan activists tiresome, then you're operating inside quite a small political bubble.

Its more your 'Gobby activist-types' contrasted with 'ordinary folks' tropes that make you sound a little bit Littlejohn.

 

[Athos]

I disagree with Jeff Robinson insofar as I don't take issue with the idea of exploiting animals per se. But it's a bit rich to choose to engage with him on this thread then expect him not to put across his perspective.

 

[NoXion]

I'll have 50 quid on that.

I'm actually very optimistic about this, at least on the technological front. Biotechnology is a very promising field overall.

I'm more concerned about scaleability, it's no good being able to produce beef and milk in a lab sans cows, if such techniques can't be expanded to meet the demands of industry.

Another consideration is resistance, mainly from the current meat and dairy industries. I'm expecting lots of scare stories and lobbying from those folks. I wonder if they will push on the "unnatural" aspect, like the "Frankenfoods" rhetoric surrounding GM crops.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I disagree with Jeff Robinson insofar as I don't take issue with the idea of exploring animals per se. But it's a bit rich to choose to engage with him on this thread then expect him not to put across his perspective.

I don't think people choose to engage with him any more than people choose to engage with a naked drunk man running around Tesco whilst forcibly inserting hard boiled quaile eggs into his rectum and singing God save the Queen. Its just something you have to put up with occasionally.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I'm actually very optimistic about this, at least on the technological front. Biotechnology is a very promising field overall.

I'm more concerned about scaleability, it's no good being able to produce beef and milk in a lab sans cows, if such techniques can't be expanded to meet the demands of industry.

Another consideration is resistance, mainly from the current meat and dairy industries. I'm expecting lots of scare stories and lobbying from those folks. I wonder if they will push on the "unnatural" aspect, like the "Frankenfoods" rhetoric surrounding GM crops.

I agree with all of this, particularly the part about scale. Cost is also going to be a problem

 

[NoXion]

I agree with all of this, particularly the part about scale. Cost is also going to be a problem

Conventional agriculture is highly subsidised in a lot of places around the world, which is something to bear in mind when making the comparison. Another thing is externalised costs; Brazilian beef is cheap in dollar amounts, but has a significant environmental cost not typically reflected by its price tag.

 

[ddraig]

I don't think people choose to engage with him any more than people choose to engage with a naked drunk man running around Tesco whilst forcibly inserting hard boiled quaile eggs into his rectum and singing God save the Queen. Its just something you have to put up with occasionally.

You don't tho, you (and others) could just unfollow thread and or ignore, if it doesn't bother you why bother!

 

[Saul Goodman]

You don't tho, you (and others) could just unfollow thread and or ignore, if it doesn't bother you why bother!

But it does bother me. The thread is aimed at me (and others). Vegans have already made the move, so they really shouldn't feel the need to chime in.

 

[ddraig]

But it does bother me. The thread is aimed at me (and others). Vegans have already made the move, so they really shouldn't feel the need to chime in.

Awww, poor you (and others)
If only vegans would be quiet or put in acceptable (to you) terms, then it would all be fine, and palatable

 

[editor]

I don't think people choose to engage with him any more than people choose to engage with a naked drunk man running around Tesco whilst forcibly inserting hard boiled quaile eggs into his rectum and singing God save the Queen. Its just something you have to put up with occasionally.

No. Stop this.

 

[platinumsage]

If it's ok to keep methane-machines to save a butterfly, surely it's ok to keep them to feed humans?

How cattle are helping rare butterflies to thrive at Mabie Forest

Pearl-bordered fritillary numbers are rising at one site - with some unusual assistance.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CNT36]

If it's ok to keep methane-machines to save a butterfly, surely it's ok to keep them to feed humans?

How cattle are helping rare butterflies to thrive at Mabie Forest

Pearl-bordered fritillary numbers are rising at one site - with some unusual assistance.

www.bbc.co.uk

A few cows mooching around stepping on plants, a negative impact of livestock in other circumstances, is exactly the same as large scale agriculture.

 

[Riklet]

Since im not driving, flying or travelling at all really.... Im eating more meat at the moment, and it's delicious.

It's a good feeling knowing my ecological footprint is way smaller.

 

[editor]

Since im not driving, flying or travelling at all really.... Im eating more meat at the moment, and it's delicious.

It's a good feeling knowing my ecological footprint is way smaller.

And it would be even smaller - and much less cruel - if you ate less meat too.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Gotta keep the cows from reading Mao and starting a revolution.

Cao?

 

[Spymaster]

You're right. These bad apples give an industry based on child abduction a bad name.

Fucking hell. Outdoing yourself this week, Nutty Jeff, and no mistake!

 

[Saul Goodman]

Has anybody watched Breaking Boundaries? It's worth a look. It seems the likelihood of us all going vegan/vegetarian is approximately zero, unless we want to accelerate the planet's death spiral. Breaking Boundaries discusses the tipping points that are going to fuck the planet, and the one we've already reached and breached is chemical fertilisers. They've poisoned our waters. It's so bad that the Baltic Sea, which used to be full of cod, now contains no cod, and it's due to runoff from cemical fertilisers poisoning the water. So it would appear that the best way to save the planet is to cut down on vegetables, don't bin the ones we buy because there a bit old, and instead of chemical fertilisers, use the natural fertilisers from the animals we eat, because unless we cut back on chemical fertilisers, we're doomed.

 

[CNT36]

Has anybody watched Breaking Boundaries? It's worth a look. It seems the likelihood of us all going vegan/vegetarian is approximately zero, unless we want to accelerate the planet's death spiral. Breaking Boundaries discusses the tipping points that are going to fuck the planet, and the one we've already reached and breached is chemical fertilisers. They've poisoned our waters. It's so bad that the Baltic Sea, which used to be full of cod, now contains no cod, and it's due to runoff from cemical fertilisers poisoning the water. So it would appear that the best way to save the planet is to cut down on vegetables, don't bin the ones we buy because there a bit old, and instead of chemical fertilisers, use the natural fertilisers from the animals we eat, because unless we cut back on chemical fertilisers, we're doomed.

How much shit do we need? Does it require all the animals we raise for food as that brings its own problems or can we cut down significantly without the need for dedicated shit farms? There are projects using neither livestock nor chemical fertilisers but how scaleable they are is another question.

 

[Pickman's model]

Has anybody watched Breaking Boundaries? It's worth a look. It seems the likelihood of us all going vegan/vegetarian is approximately zero, unless we want to accelerate the planet's death spiral. Breaking Boundaries discusses the tipping points that are going to fuck the planet, and the one we've already reached and breached is chemical fertilisers. They've poisoned our waters. It's so bad that the Baltic Sea, which used to be full of cod, now contains no cod, and it's due to runoff from cemical fertilisers poisoning the water. So it would appear that the best way to save the planet is to cut down on vegetables, don't bin the ones we buy because there a bit old, and instead of chemical fertilisers, use the natural fertilisers from the animals we eat, because unless we cut back on chemical fertilisers, we're doomed.

This link The Fisheries Secretariat about the Baltic cod suggests you're talking out of your arse. Which is unusual.

 

[Riklet]

And it would be even smaller - and much less cruel - if you ate less meat too.

I dont think killing/eating animals is cruel though. Not on an existential level. It's part of life.

The current industry under capitalism is cruel. but thats true for everything, from mobile phones to plastics to oils to quinoao to duvets. I dont believe in liberal boycotts. And as much as it enrages the vegans in this thread - eating regular amounts of meat is a tried and tested diet.

 

[Saul Goodman]

This link The Fisheries Secretariat about the Baltic cod suggests you're talking out of your arse. Which is unusual.

Talk to the Attenborough. They're his numbers, not mine.

 

[Saul Goodman]

This link The Fisheries Secretariat about the Baltic cod suggests you're talking out of your arse. Which is unusual.

Unused fertilizer runs off the fields, enters waterways and kills wildlife — Rockström gives the example of the Baltic Sea which used to contain high quantities of cod, but now contains none because of fertilizer pollution from surrounding fields.

9 Staggering Facts From David Attenborough’s New Devastating Documentary on Climate Change

It’s a tough watch, but it shows that if we bring down emissions now we can avoid a tipping point.

www.globalcitizen.org

 

[Pickman's model]

9 Staggering Facts From David Attenborough’s New Devastating Documentary on Climate Change

It’s a tough watch, but it shows that if we bring down emissions now we can avoid a tipping point.

www.globalcitizen.org

Yeh there appear to still be cod in the Baltic

 

[platinumsage]

Fucking hell. Outdoing yourself this week, Nutty Jeff, and no mistake!

Stop abducting Jeff's posts and abusing them for your own foul ends, it's equivalent to kidnapping and abusing actual humans.

 

[Pickman's model]

I dont think killing/eating animals is cruel though. Not on an existential level. It's part of life.

The current industry under capitalism is cruel. but thats true for everything, from mobile phones to plastics to oils to quinoao to duvets. I dont believe in liberal boycotts. And as much as it enrages the vegans in this thread - eating regular amounts of meat is a tried and tested diet

Eating arsenic is a tried and tested diet. But I don't think I'd advocate it. You don't need to eat meat in the way eg a lion needs to eat a wildebeest - you choose cruelty when alternatives exist

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yeh there appear to still be cod in the Baltic

I've no idea what 'none' means in this context. Like I said, I'm only quoting Attenborough.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've no idea what 'none' means in this context. Like I said, I'm only quoting Attenborough.

Yeh but even homer nods