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Atos are still doing (re)assessments despite what Gov and Press say..

Hi. My case and experience is quite disturbing too. The health care professional introduced himself as a paramedic. A Paramedic!

In my case I suffer badly from ankylosing spondylitis and some days can not walk. I unfortunately suffer from aspergers with related major depression. - he purposely skipped all mental health related issues. They did not get in contact with my CMHT social worker or Psychiatrist. I am 45 years old - I didn't choose this way of life.
 
cms33711 said:
Hi. My case and experience is quite disturbing too. The health care professional introduced himself as a paramedic. A Paramedic!

In my case I suffer badly from ankylosing spondylitis and some days can not walk. I unfortunately suffer from aspergers with related major depression. - he purposely skipped all mental health related issues. They did not get in contact with my CMHT social worker or Psychiatrist. I am 45 years old - I didn't choose this way of life.
Click to expand...
Hi sorry I didn't see your post earlier. Welcome to urban.

I know no one would choose to be ill, but the system makes you feel as if you're to blame. You are not to blame. I imagine being interviewed by a paramedic must have seemed like an insult. My partner was interviewed by a physiotherapist, which didn't seem very good at the time either, but it was ok in the end.

I think the 'assessments' commonly ask lots of stuff about physical health and not so much about mental health.

Have you heard back from them yet?
 
cms33711 said:
Hi. My case and experience is quite disturbing too. The health care professional introduced himself as a paramedic. A Paramedic!
Click to expand...

With the level of ignorance over preparation for practice of health professionals do peopel wonder why so few bother to engage in discussion ?

comparatively few of the paramedics in current clinical practice as solely ' blue book ' 6 +6 weekers ...

as forthe objection / suprise at a physio doing the assessments i think that says more aobut the commentorsd lack of knowledge than the suitability of Physios and OTs to be doign the assessments , arguably physios have a better baseline knowledge of assessment and examination than Nurses as they are expected to demonstrate competencies in a more rigourously assessed way pre -reg ... ( a physio who cannot auscultate would not pass their respiratory / cardio modules ... where as many (civvie) nurses don't get the opportunity to learn this important skill properly unless they set out to specifically learn it )
 
zippyRN said:
With the level of ignorance over preparation for practice of health professionals do peopel wonder why so few bother to engage in discussion ?

comparatively few of the paramedics in current clinical practice as solely ' blue book ' 6 +6 weekers ...
Click to expand...
? eh 'blue book' what? no idea what 6+6 weekers means.
whose ignorance? who is not bothering to engage in discussion? which discussion are you refering to?


Before my partner got ill I'd only a limited experience of the health service, and no idea at all about the benefits system. The hoops they make you jump through, seem very weird to people new to all this. I was trying to to support my partner through a very stressful process (the fear of it all made her very ill for weeks) I got a lot of support on this forum a few years ago and I'm trying to offer that back to others going through these assessments. My own experience of dealing with Atos means I take a dim view of this useless, profit grabbing, heartless company and its harsh, underhand, sneeky methods.

zippyRN said:
as forthe objection / suprise at a physio doing the assessments i think that says more aobut the commentorsd lack of knowledge than the suitability of Physios and OTs to be doign the assessments , arguably physios have a better baseline knowledge of assessment and examination than Nurses as they are expected to demonstrate competencies in a more rigourously assessed way pre -reg ... ( a physio who cannot auscultate would not pass their respiratory / cardio modules ... where as many (civvie) nurses don't get the opportunity to learn this important skill properly unless they set out to specifically learn it )
Click to expand...
No idea what most of this means, I've just had to look up auscultate. All I can say there was no physical examination or stethoscopes involved in the re-assessment, is there ever?

My parter has bad guts and mental health issues - and has never encountered a physio in her treatments of either issue. So why should I expect a physio would be a suitable assessor? If you read my post again you'll see I was trying to be encouraging to cms33711, as it was ok for my partner and the physio had obviously recognised that my partner is still too ill to work.

No I'm not knowledgable about the training involved - why should I be expected to be? I presume you must be some sort of health worker or atos employee maybe - so rather than just being dismissive of me, why don't you just share your fucking precious knowledge. Or are you just here to snipe? This is a matter of life and death to some here.

What I've learned so far about this assessment process, is this isn't about assessing your health at all - it's about trying to disqualify people from claiming benefits to which they are entitled.
 
friendofdorothy - nail on head !
wish I could like that more than once.

as for zippy, just ignore 'em. They may be involved in some way with medical matters, but on here, seems to be largely sniping at people trying to make sense of the benefits system, who are trying to claim their entitlements (despite this "caring gov't" making this as hard, demoralising and downright difficult as they can - and constantly moving convoluted conditions and goalposts)
 
Thanks you two. Makes it all worthwhile.

I'm just trying to keep my chin up and my head above water. I feel abit like zippy might just enjoy watching someone struggling in deep water. Zippy might just say that the lifeguard, who isn't even in the water to save them, is super qualified.
 
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friendofdorothy said:
? eh 'blue book' what? no idea what 6+6 weekers means.
whose ignorance? who is not bothering to engage in discussion? which discussion are you refering to?
Click to expand...

a good few years ago there was a Panorama or some such documentary that claimed that UK Paramedics 'had six weeks training' ...

at the time that was partially truthfully, as the theory part of a a 'Blue Book' Paramedic course was 6 weeks in Duration ...
However it ignored the fact that you had to have completed the PTS and Technician( 'Green book' / Millar/ national proficinecy) courses , the driving course , worked as Tech for at least a year and if you passed the course you had 6 weeks of A+E/ theatres/ labour ward placements to do before you completed the IHCD Paramedic course .

in the intervening decade plus , Paramedic pre-registration educatio nand training has joined the other HCPC professions, Nursing and MIdwifery, Medicne , Dentistry etc in Highereducation and the current standards for new course approves are at least NQF level 5 and at least 2 years if not 3 in duration and iirc 1500 clinical hours in addition to the contact time required to deliver the HE qualification


friendofdorothy said:
Before my partner got ill I'd only a limited experience of the health service, and no idea at all about the benefits system. The hoops they make you jump through, seem very weird to people new to all this. I was trying to to support my partner through a very stressful process (the fear of it all made her very ill for weeks) I got a lot of support on this forum a few years ago and I'm trying to offer that back to others going through these assessments. My own experience of dealing with Atos means I take a dim view of this useless, profit grabbing, heartless company and its harsh, underhand, sneeky methods.


No idea what most of this means, I've just had to look up auscultate. All I can say there was no physical examination or stethoscopes involved in the re-assessment, is there ever?

My parter has bad guts and mental health issues - and has never encountered a physio in her treatments of either issue. So why should I expect a physio would be a suitable assessor? If you read my post again you'll see I was trying to be encouraging to cms33711, as it was ok for my partner and the physio had obviously recognised that my partner is still too ill to work.

No I'm not knowledgable about the training involved - why should I be expected to be? I presume you must be some sort of health worker or atos employee maybe - so rather than just being dismissive of me, why don't you just share your fucking precious knowledge. Or are you just here to snipe? This is a matter of life and death to some here.

What I've learned so far about this assessment process, is this isn't about assessing your health at all - it's about trying to disqualify people from claiming benefits to which they are entitled.
Click to expand...

There are no hoops to jump through - this is a view expressed by those who are either ignorant or ideologically bound against the system, Contrary to the widely held belief of the paranoid left no one in government or the civil service wants to do things for the fun of it or as a job creation scheme ( the irony is most of the job creation in the public sector is at the behest of the unions), it is a symptom of the fundamental immaturity of many 'activists' that they are unwilling to understand their impact on others or simple things like the duty of organisations to prove they are spending taxpayers money in an effective way.

Tthe purpose of the Assessments for both ESA and PIP are not to challenge Diagnosis - this is a fundamental misapprehension pushed by those who like to dismiss the validity of the assessment being conducted by None Medical health professionals or by the 'wrong ' speciality of Medical Practitioner , this is only marginally better that the 'Sea Org' style 'Fair game' approach adopted by the entryists and Corbynistas to deal with dissent .

It is a functional assessment not a diagnostic one , which comes back the fundamental misapprehension / Diagnosis fallacy ... having a diagnosis , or not , or two diagnoses or five or 27 makes no difference. Requiring diagnoses would actually discriminate against soem ofthe most disabled people inour communities as they simply don;t have diagnoses ... also diagnosis means nothing 'asthma' ranges from peopel who get a bit wheezy if the weather changes suddenly or it;s hayfever season , through to people who have multiple ITU stays and are severely limitedi n their physicla capacity becasue of the brittle nature of their Asthma ...

it is also interesting that the progession of certain conditions seems to be more relatedto social, somatic and psychologicla factors than the underlying causes ...
 
friendofdorothy said:
Thanks you two. Makes it all worthwhile.

I'm just trying to keep my chin up and my head above water. I feel abit like zippy might just enjoy watching someone struggling in deep water. Zippy might just say that the lifeguard, who isn't even in the water to save them, is super qualified.
Click to expand...

what a presumptuous bunch of libel ...

rather than those who when throuwn life rings, ropes, life jackets etc moan whinge and comlain it took too long or the boat that eventually had to be launched was the wrogn shade of orange... but then again personal responsibility and the left is never an easy fit ...
 
zippyRN said:
personal responsibility and the left is never an easy fit
Click to expand...
understanding the generational effects of their policies and the politics they endorse isn't much of a fit for the right is it zippy? Every post you make has the unspoken 'malingerer' judgement, always has. People like you are poison to most folk, you know that? You weild your acronyms and vaunted insider knowledge in an obfuscatory way while all the time exposing yourself as a self interested piece of shit whose only function is to degrade further peoples trust in medical proffesionals. 70 years ago you'd have been a backstreet abortionist living at rillington place. Now fuck off, medicine man. Your greatest achievement has been performing the first succsesful procedure of a man removing his own cock and transplanting it to his own forehead
 
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zippyRN said:
...

There are no hoops to jump through - this is a view expressed by those who are either ignorant or ideologically bound against the system, Contrary to the widely held belief of the paranoid left no one in government or the civil service wants to do things for the fun of it or as a job creation scheme ( the irony is most of the job creation in the public sector is at the behest of the unions), it is a symptom of the fundamental immaturity of many 'activists' that they are unwilling to understand their impact on others or simple things like the duty of organisations to prove they are spending taxpayers money in an effective way.
Click to expand...

Now, please, young Mr. Zippy, if you would be so kind, read again that which you have written and then try to re-write it in a way that might be - shall be say more "calm", or more "sensible"?

zippyRN said:
...
Tthe purpose of the Assessments for both ESA and PIP are not to challenge Diagnosis - this is a fundamental misapprehension pushed by those who like to dismiss the validity of the assessment being conducted by None Medical health professionals or by the 'wrong ' speciality of Medical Practitioner , this is only marginally better that the 'Sea Org' style 'Fair game' approach adopted by the entryists and Corbynistas to deal with dissent .
Click to expand...
... Oh what now? "Sea Org"? :eek: I thought that was a Scientology thing. OK, apparently it is also a zippyRN thing. Oh good grief. :rolleyes:

zippyRN said:
... It is a functional assessment not a diagnostic one , which comes back the fundamental misapprehension / Diagnosis fallacy ... having a diagnosis , or not , or two diagnoses or five or 27 makes no difference. Requiring diagnoses would actually discriminate against soem ofthe most disabled people inour communities as they simply don;t have diagnoses ... also diagnosis means nothing 'asthma' ranges from peopel who get a bit wheezy if the weather changes suddenly or it;s hayfever season , through to people who have multiple ITU stays and are severely limitedi n their physicla capacity becasue of the brittle nature of their Asthma ...

it is also interesting that the progession of certain conditions seems to be more relatedto social, somatic and psychologicla factors than the underlying causes ...
Click to expand...

You are a troublesome person presuming to offer advice where you can not, and doing it in a most obnoxious manner. Also illiterate.

This would be fine if it were only for your amusement, but it is not.

Where actual people seek advice for things in the actual world, the last thing we need to hear is you yapping wierdly
 
Celyn said:
Just what the hell are you on about?
Click to expand...
its the last line that nails him, not that this shit from that arsehole is needing of further reinforcing. He's been at it for time and never once questioned anything, never thought about why he's scraping a w/c lad off the floor or attending to the results of a wife beating/family fight/drunken brawl/motorbike accident. This ones self imagined labour aristocracy. Can't be a doctor but boy does he wish he was
 
friendofdorothy said:
? eh 'blue book' what? no idea what 6+6 weekers means.
whose ignorance? who is not bothering to engage in discussion? which discussion are you refering to?
Click to expand...

zippyRN said:
a good few years ago there was a Panorama or some such documentary that claimed that UK Paramedics 'had six weeks training' ...

at the time that was partially truthfully, as the theory part of a a 'Blue Book' Paramedic course was 6 weeks in Duration ...
However it ignored the fact that you had to have completed the PTS and Technician( 'Green book' / Millar/ national proficinecy) courses , the driving course , worked as Tech for at least a year and if you passed the course you had 6 weeks of A+E/ theatres/ labour ward placements to do before you completed the IHCD Paramedic course .

in the intervening decade plus , Paramedic pre-registration educatio nand training has joined the other HCPC professions, Nursing and MIdwifery, Medicne , Dentistry etc in Highereducation and the current standards for new course approves are at least NQF level 5 and at least 2 years if not 3 in duration and iirc 1500 clinical hours in addition to the contact time required to deliver the HE qualification
Click to expand...
so the 'discussion' you were refering to was one that no one else on this thread was having then. No one mentioned Pararama or any knowledge of training proceedures. ah.

I admire our NHS professionals. Myself and many people I love have benefitted from the care and actions of paramedics, ambulance drivers, porters, nurses and other health workers - I have nothing but respect for them. I'm glad they receive good training - as our lives depend on them.

You could have helped allay the fears cms33711, a new member here, about the person who assessed him. The man was afraid because no questions had been asked about his mental health condition. Presumably he was afraid that this person might write a report that could strip him of his meagre benefits income. You could have enlightened everyone on this thread. Instead you chose to call us ignorant.
 
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zippyRN said:
There are no hoops to jump through - this is a view expressed by those who are either ignorant or ideologically bound against the system,
Click to expand...

No hoops to jump through?
When my partner got ill I attempted to find out how to claim benefits for her. I am english, I am lierate and numerate, I have a degree and I did not find the process to be easy. I had to fill in a bulky (48 page?) form to claim for DLA for her - I needed professional help to fill it in. It was baffling. hoops. This was some time ago, I can't say any stage of the process since has been easy. hoops. Filling in the forms has reduced me to tears - and I'm not even the one who is ill. hoops.

Her re assessment with Atos was was cancelled twice making me take extra time off work at short notice, inconvenient for me and my employers. Hoops. hoops. hoops.

zippyRN said:
Contrary to the widely held belief of the paranoid left no one in government or the civil service wants to do things for the fun of it or as a job creation scheme ( the irony is most of the job creation in the public sector is at the behest of the unions), it is a symptom of the fundamental immaturity of many 'activists' that they are unwilling to understand their impact on others or simple things like the duty of organisations to prove they are spending taxpayers money in an effective way.
Click to expand...

Paranoid left? our previous PM introduced the idea of 'austerity' and 'strivers and skivers'. I'm not being 'paranoid' in imagening which group the ill and benefit claimants fall into. The idea of 'austerity' and the concept of 'skivers' have been linked so often by politicians, journalists and the media, the false logic being that 'skivers' (including the ill, old, disabled and poor) are some how responsible for 'austerity'. Rather than the reckless gambling of bankers and the failure of regulatary bodies and govts to control them. The way I see it is the rich fucked up and the poor must pay.

I work. I pay tax, I've always paid tax. My partner had always been a taxpayer too - until she was ill. I expect public bodies to be financially accountable. The govts own figures suggested a tiny percentage of sickness benefits were being fraudulently claimed, yet Atos/maximus/who-ever are interviewing every sick person as if they are lying. How much is the cost of the appeals process - is this cost efficient for the tax payer? Does Atos actually save any taxpayers money?
 
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DotCommunist said:
and when they do, well. Well well well. Would you care to look up the stats for succesful appeals against assements made? Go on, you'll love it. Its over 50% btw
Click to expand...

again i don;t think you quite understand why the appeals are so successful , the presumoption that health professionals are sympathetic and will deliver a subjective report rather than empathetic and objective seems to drive the subtext that many 'activists' are pushing

the Politically motivated part of the debate , where andwhen it happens doesn;t come from government it comes from the activistis and their projection
 
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