Atos are still doing (re)assessments despite what Gov and Press say..

[free spirit]

So on Thursday, I photocopied everything and sent it by special delivery (at a cost of £6.40 when my money has been stopped) to the address given at the end of the guidance notes. The deadline was met and I thought I could put it out of my mind for a while. This morning, I received a letter from the Courts and Tribunal Service returning my appeal, saying that the office to which I had sent it does not administer appeals against DWP decisions. Somewhat unhelpfully, it did not tell me where I should send it. It seems to me that there are two possibilities: either the guidance notes are wrong, which is disgraceful, or addresses have been changed in which case, surely, my appeal should have been forwarded to the new address.

make sure you keep the registered post, and returned envelope and letter, or copies of as evidence.

If the address matches with that given on the guidance then you did everything you reasonably could be expected to to meet their requirements, and it is their failure that has caused you to miss that deadline.

Do not let them fob you off, do not go in on the back foot apologising, go straight in with a formal complaint about their administrative failure, demand an extension and reinbursement for your costs, and explain that you will be writing to your MP about their incompetence.

Always good to really put them on the defensive from the off when you know you have irrefutable evidence of their incompetence in front of you IMO.

 

[Nick3535]

I am feeling a bit sheepish! Heaven only knows how I managed it, but I sent the wrong form, using the wrong guidance notes, to the wrong address. Much as I would love to blame everybody else for everything, this is my cockup! I have now sent everything off to the proper destination and have a lot to thank Benefits and Work for. Fingers crossed that missing the deadline by 24 hours will not be used against me.
Thanks to everyone on here for their support. It has been a great boost.
A serious point - I am reasonably well educated, hopefully not stupid and able to string a few sentences together. I have been reduced to gibbering incompetence by this process and very nearly threw in the towel last week. It really is a scandal that things should be made so complicated and obstructive - it is a wholly cynical abuse of power to drive people into submission or worse.
I am going to try to forget about the whole wretched business for a few days before somebody else throws a spanner in the works.
I don't have a clue as to timescale.

 

[Celyn]

...
A serious point - I am reasonably well educated, hopefully not stupid and able to string a few sentences together. I have been reduced to gibbering incompetence by this process and very nearly threw in the towel last week. It really is a scandal that things should be made so complicated and obstructive - it is a wholly cynical abuse of power to drive people into submission or worse.

Yes, indeed. I know we're not meant to attribute things to malice if they are more likely the result of incompetence, but I do think the DWP tends towards the malicious end of things.

You make a very good point: I do wonder how anyone with any difficulty in coping with the written word is supposed to cope.

I am going to try to forget about the whole wretched business for a few days before somebody else throws a spanner in the works.

I don't have a clue as to timescale.

Although it's not much comfort, it's certainly good to have a few days of "it is done, now I can only wait, lap of the gods, sort of thing", before the great fear of the postman strikes again.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am feeling a bit sheepish! Heaven only knows how I managed it, but I sent the wrong form, using the wrong guidance notes, to the wrong address. Much as I would love to blame everybody else for everything, this is my cockup! I have now sent everything off to the proper destination and have a lot to thank Benefits and Work for. Fingers crossed that missing the deadline by 24 hours will not be used against me.
Thanks to everyone on here for their support. It has been a great boost.
A serious point - I am reasonably well educated, hopefully not stupid and able to string a few sentences together. I have been reduced to gibbering incompetence by this process and very nearly threw in the towel last week. It really is a scandal that things should be made so complicated and obstructive - it is a wholly cynical abuse of power to drive people into submission or worse.

yep, it's absolutely a cynical abuse of power, and was and is exactly the reason that one of the strongest protests from disabled people and people with long-term illnesses has always been about the length and inscrutability of the application/renewal forms.
I am going to try to forget about the whole wretched business for a few days before somebody else throws a spanner in the works.

 

[Nick3535]

Things have moved on since my last post. I received a letter from Job Centre Plus, saying that I would be paid ESA backdated to November 25th last year during the appeal process.
I then received a mysterious letter from the Courts and Tribunal Service, saying that the Appeals Officer had revised the decision on my case and that the new decision is a more favourable one. As a result, my appeal has lapsed and no further action will be taken. I was advised that I must lodge a fresh appeal if I think the new decision is still wrong, but, somewhat unhelpfully, there was no mention of what the new decision is.
I have now received a second letter from Job Centre Plus, making no mention of the appeal, but saying that I will be paid ESA, but not after November 22nd 2015. In the meantime, I may need to attend a Work Focus Interview with a Personal Advisor, that I may need to attend a Work Capability Assessment (Is this another ATOS fiasco interview?) and that I need to provide Medical certificates until a Work Capability Assessment is carried out.
The point of the original appeal was that my psychiatrist was convinced that I should be in the Support Group and her report made this point in the strongest terms imaginable.
I suppose that I now have to go for Mandatory Reconsideration again. When the rubber stamp is applied, confirming the original decision, I will then have to embark on a fresh appeal if I am to have any chance of being placed in the Support group.
I will also run the risk of losing the ESA I have just been awarded.
My health has deteriorated drastically in the last few months and I am beginning to question whether this fight is worth the candle. I am not in a fit state for interviews, tribunals or anything else. I have barely left the house since before Christmas and, to make matters worse, my wonderful psychiatrist, who has been my saviour for the last nine years, has moved to the other side of the country. The only contact I have at present is with the crisis team at my local hospital and they do not seem to have much to offer in dealing with my appeal.
I am reluctant to give up, because the last thing I want to do is to allow this appalling, unjust, uncompassionate and quite disgraceful system to win. If continuing to fight, however, takes much more toll, I may well not be here to see the outcome.
What is particularly galling is that, like many other people, my condition varies enormously. I now feel extremely anxious that, should I go through a phase of feeling better, it will somehow be used against me. I have never felt got at - I certainly do now.
In short, I simply don't know where to turn.

 

[Greebo]

Things have moved on since my last post. I received a letter from Job Centre Plus, saying that I would be paid ESA backdated to November 25th last year during the appeal process.
I then received a mysterious letter from the Courts and Tribunal Service, saying that the Appeals Officer had revised the decision on my case and that the new decision is a more favourable one. As a result, my appeal has lapsed and no further action will be taken. I was advised that I must lodge a fresh appeal if I think the new decision is still wrong, but, somewhat unhelpfully, there was no mention of what the new decision is.<snip>

Ring up and ask for clarification, which you also want in writing, of what exactly the appeal decision was and for how long. Note the person's name (they can at least give their first name), position, time and day of this call, so that it can be verified if need be.

<snip> I have now received a second letter from Job Centre Plus, making no mention of the appeal, but saying that I will be paid ESA, but not after November 22nd 2015. In the meantime, I may need to attend a Work Focus Interview with a Personal Advisor, that I may need to attend a Work Capability Assessment (Is this another ATOS fiasco interview?) and that I need to provide Medical certificates until a Work Capability Assessment is carried out. <snip>

Suppose nothing, check everything, and ask people to clraify whatever isn't making sense because it seems to contradict another letter. IMHO you need to make this the problem of either the CAB or the nearest disability rights place. I'm not organised or efficient by nature, but when dealing with the DWP you have to be. Alternatively, find somebody you can trust to help you keep track of stuff and read officialese. English, but not as we know it.

My health has deteriorated drastically in the last few months and I am beginning to question whether this fight is worth the candle. <snip> I am reluctant to give up, because the last thing I want to do is to allow this appalling, unjust, uncompassionate and quite disgraceful system to win. If continuing to fight, however, takes much more toll, I may well not be here to see the outcome. <snip> I have never felt got at - I certainly do now.
In short, I simply don't know where to turn.

*solidarity fistbump* Everyone feels like that - particularly if it never occurred to them to ever make a dishonest claim.

Others will be along presently, but I can tell you right now, you're not alone in this. As for how long you fight, as long as you feel able to, and only you can decide that.

 

[panpete]

Please don't give up Nick, you need to eat and clothes yourself etc.

 

[batman1234]

Nick please do not give up.

Myself and my husband have been through so many assessments and appeals for one claim.
in 2009 His IB was stopped as I worked and we lived together, therefore I could provide for him.
6 months later (After I had fallen into debt) the dwp decided that indeed he was entitled to his own money due to his illness.
Later in the year his illness worsened and new care workers were provided leading to a year successful DLA claim, this then ended and a review letter sent. The reviewed decision was refused as the condition he suffers was in between diagnosis and the results from the recent tests and studies he has undergone were still unavailable.
During the same period IB moved him to ESA - which was refused. He was unable to take anybody into his ATOS assessment with him and was unable to answer alot of the questions (along with other issues, he has epilepsy & unfortunately is unable to answer 'what happens when you are mid fit). He scored 0.
Money was tight, as it was a sanctioned rate, we were even refused Crisis loans.

Several re - assessments and letters from mp, gp, health workers, consultants later we received a Tribunal date.

We were seen by a Judge and independent doctor, they spoke to my husband for 10 mins and then asked my opinions. I was then given credit for coping with all his 'issues' without asking for support & told that i actually qualify as a career.
We were sent out for about 5 mins whilst they made their decisions, in this time my Hubs had a seizure in the waiting room. Having been checked out by the doc, we were told we could leave with our Winning appeal. Esa to be re instated with immediate effect and backdated.
There was also a condition on the letter from the judge to dwp stating that myself and partner are not to be contacted by dwp, Atos or job centre plus for a minimum of 3 years. Which of course they ignored when they invited him in for a back to work interview and then sent him home again.

All together it took us about 3 years to successfully receive the correct entitlement at the correct rate.

Keep fighting. You will get there.

Just a few months ago, we had a official diagnosis, armed with all the details and evidence, an application to Pip was placed. Within 3 weeks we were called to Atos for a next day appointment. An hour later we received another call to say it had been cancelled & that they had enough evidence.

Fast forward 6 weeks - a successful decision with back payments. A total of 24 points scored but did not qualify for the care component although it is advised that I do not leave my partner alone.

^^^Something I cannot be bothered to fight for.

Sorry for the long post, I thought it would be helpful for you to know, you can beat this awful system.

P.s - the majority of Hubs 'issues' are MH.

 

[batman1234]

*Carer

 

[Nick3535]

Thanks to everybody for all the kindness and support since I first posted on here. After being forced through all kinds of nonsense, I phoned the DWP to ask which of the three letters I had received in the previous week - all saying different things - was accurate. Apparently, none of them were! I was told that a new note had been put on the file and that I had been put in the support group and that money would be backdated to the day in November when it had been stopped. I suppose I should be dancing for joy, but instead I feel guilty that I appear to have won when others are still having to fight on. I also have no faith in any decision and would not be at all surprised to be summoned back to ATOS at any moment. At least this gives me a breathing space, I suppose, and each month takes me closer to pensionable age - just over three years to go - so fingers crossed and hope to be left alone for a while.
This experience has knocked me sideways and I am in a more withdrawn and isolated state than I have ever been. I just hope that calmer waters may bring about some improvement.
To read yesterday that this shameful government is now threatening to deprive overweight people of benefits and to hear the appaling Mcvey woman suggesting that sanctioning people on benefits is a good way of flagging up to the authorities that they need help, simply makes me despair. Why, oh why can't the Labour party stand four square against this demonising of the poor and the ill?
It feels as if I have leant heavily on others here for support and I have offered nothing in return. If the fact that my psychiatrist has single handedly beaten off the worst efforts of ATOS and the DWP combined can offer hope to others, at least there may be the seed of a positive contribution.

 

[andysays]

...It feels as if I have leant heavily on others here for support and I have offered nothing in return. If the fact that my psychiatrist has single handedly beaten off the worst efforts of ATOS and the DWP combined can offer hope to others, at least there may be the seed of a positive contribution.

Glad to hear you've finally had some success, and sorry it took so long.

You're not obliged to offer anything in return for the support you've had, but as you suggest your good news gives some encouragement to us all.

Of course you're welcome to stick around and offer whatever support you can to others in future

And if you want to join in the discussions in the politics forum, including the issue of why the Labour party can't stand four square against this demonising of the poor and the ill, this thread might be a place to start

 

[Greebo]

Thanks to everybody for all the kindness and support since I first posted on here. After being forced through all kinds of nonsense, I phoned the DWP to ask which of the three letters I had received in the previous week - all saying different things - was accurate. Apparently, none of them were! I was told that a new note had been put on the file and that I had been put in the support group and that money would be backdated to the day in November when it had been stopped. I suppose I should be dancing for joy, but instead I feel guilty that I appear to have won when others are still having to fight on. I also have no faith in any decision and would not be at all surprised to be summoned back to ATOS at any moment. At least this gives me a breathing space, I suppose, and each month takes me closer to pensionable age - just over three years to go - so fingers crossed and hope to be left alone for a while. <snip>

Congratulations Nick, I'm glad to hear that at least you'll have the breathing space you need to have a chance of improving a bit. No need for guilt, although it's a very natural and human thing to feel, when you've been lucky and so many others haven't.

You can offer hope and have done so, just by posting that you've won. You can add your voice to hundreds of others of ordinary people saying that this system hurts the very people it's supposed to help. You can pass your experience onto others you come across if they're ever (heaven forbid) in this situation. You can point them in the direction of this thread on urban.

Most of all, you contribute by staying alive, whether on urban or not.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Glad you are ok, Nick3535. Visit when you feel well enough to share your experience with others.

 

[pogo 10]

Here we go, got appointment at 11am for pip assessment, take a deep breath, lucky my support worker is coming.

 

[DotCommunist]

Here we go, got appointment at 11am for pip assessment, take a deep breath, lucky my support worker is coming.

heres hoping it goes well for you pogo

I did have an appmnt on last sunday (a sunday! only evil labours on the sabbath ) but they sent me another letter rescheduling it for the first monday of march. Which in some ways is better because I can get a lift and not dice with semi-rural sunday bus service.

 

[pogo 10]

heres hoping it goes well for you pogo

I did have an appmnt on last sunday (a sunday! only evil labours on the sabbath ) but they sent me another letter rescheduling it for the first monday of march. Which in some ways is better because I can get a lift and not dice with semi-rural sunday bus service.

Cheers dot communist, and good luck for you too, what a strange day to give you eh, a sunday.

 

[Greebo]

Here we go, got appointment at 11am for pip assessment, take a deep breath, lucky my support worker is coming.

Best of luck with that, pogo. And good luck with your assessment too, Dottie.

 

[pogo 10]

T

Best of luck with that, pogo. And good luck with your assessment too, Dottie.

thanks a lot greebo.

 

[pogo 10]

Went alright today, i think, apart from a really oppressive waiting room with a dead loud clock. Said theyd be in touch in about 8 weeks.

 

[Greebo]

Went alright today, i think, apart from a really oppressive waiting room with a dead loud clock. Said theyd be in touch in about 8 weeks.

Be sure to get a printed copy of the assessment - so that if you want a review of the decision, or have to appeal, there'll be less time taken up waiting for it.

 

[panpete]

Here we go, got appointment at 11am for pip assessment, take a deep breath, lucky my support worker is coming.

Best of luck with your PIP

 

[andysays]

Went alright today, i think, apart from a really oppressive waiting room with a dead loud clock. Said theyd be in touch in about 8 weeks.

I had that at mine, now you mention it - must be some standard issue waiting room design and clock!

Hope you get the right result

 

[panpete]

I had that at mine, now you mention it - must be some standard issue waiting room design and clock!

Hope you get the right result

Things like that make me really uncomfortable and unsettled. I hate going in big buildings, and oppressive waiting rooms freak me out.

 

[pogo 10]

I had that at mine, now you mention it - must be some standard issue waiting room design and clock!

Hope you get the right result

Thanks andysays.

 

[pogo 10]

Best of luck with your PIP

Thanks panpete.

 

[andysays]

Things like that make me really uncomfortable and unsettled. I hate going in big buildings, and oppressive waiting rooms freak me out.

Yeah, I know what you mean - I was sort of joking before, but if I'm already feeling anxious then waiting rooms can make it all worse.

 

[longdog]

I also have no faith in any decision and would not be at all surprised to be summoned back to ATOS at any moment.

You might want to get on the phone to the DWP and ask for a copy of the ESA85A. This is the form the 'Health Care Professional' fills in when they award you ESA without an actual WCA. It will list the reasons you were awarded how ever many points you got or the reason you didn't need any points (basically because being found fit for work would create a 'substantial risk' to your physical or mental welfare). It will also state how long it will be until your next 'reconsideration'.

The DWP do not make a habit out of sending claimants the ESA85A (or even tell them that such a thing exists) which I suspect is down to them knowing that you will use it as a stick to beat the fuckers with the next time around but you are entitled to a copy. If they fuck you about do a FOI request and force them to comply.

At the risk of telling you something you already know remember this the ESA85A not the ESA85 which is a different beast entirely.

 

[Greebo]

You might want to get on the phone to the DWP and ask for a copy of the ESA85A. This is the form the 'Health Care Professional' fills in when they award you ESA without an actual WCA. It will list the reasons you were awarded how ever many points you got or the reason you didn't need any points (basically because being found fit for work would create a 'substantial risk' to your physical or mental welfare). It will also state how long it will be until your next 'reconsideration'. <snip>

Good point, this could be very useful if the decision needs to be challenged or you need to renew your claim later.

 

[friendofdorothy]

You might want to get on the phone to the DWP and ask for a copy of the ESA85A. This is the form the 'Health Care Professional' fills in when they award you ESA without an actual WCA. It will list the reasons you were awarded how ever many points you got or the reason you didn't need any points (basically because being found fit for work would create a 'substantial risk' to your physical or mental welfare). It will also state how long it will be until your next 'reconsideration'.

The DWP do not make a habit out of sending claimants the ESA85A (or even tell them that such a thing exists) which I suspect is down to them knowing that you will use it as a stick to beat the fuckers with the next time around but you are entitled to a copy. If they fuck you about do a FOI request and force them to comply.

At the risk of telling you something you already know remember this the ESA85A not the ESA85 which is a different beast entirely.

I had no idea that it exists either - will be writing to the DWP . Thank you.

 

[pogo 10]

Got letter on saturday saying im getting basic pip a week and got backdated money today, gonna buy a thankyou present for my support worker, absolute star she is.