Atos are still doing (re)assessments despite what Gov and Press say..

[zippyRN]

nobody defends atos that hard unless they work for them and are lying to themselves so they can look themselves in the eye when shaving of a morn.

because lets face it, working for atos isn't far off scabbing.

there's some presumptive twats on here,. but then again it's par for the course with Urban ...

No i don't work for ATOS as my own health, personal and professional Issues have kept me out of clinical practice for the past 2 years. I don't work for Capita either ( see previous post aobut the fact Capita don;t want anyone with any history of of referral to a professional regulator working for them - no doubt because of the utter shite spouted by the antis aobut people who were struck off working as DA for ATOS ).

it saeems there are two sides in chronic condition management on one side there are the majority of health professionals and an overall minority of patients / service users ( veery variable depending on condition) who work for the normalisation and integration of people with diabailities and chronic conditions and work o nthe basis of maximising independence and pushing effective disease management and rehab situations , on the other is a minority of of either ridciulously soppoy or party political motivated Health professionals and various groups of people with chronic conditions, some drawing on political ideologies, some drawing on the magic bullet woo of the various 'truthers' with regard to some ci#onditions and others who have a complete disconnect between the phyical and mental somatic aspects o f their condition and in doing so fail to help themselves and becasome agressive and insulting to anyone who doesn;t share their pity and give them sympathy . Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

 

[Celt]

The fact that this is happening terrifies me.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

and becasome agressive and insulting to anyone who doesn;t share their pity and give them sympathy . Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

1) I don't think anyone has been particularly aggressive or insulting towards you. (but I guess you do have a habit of reading what isn't there don't you)

2) No-one has asked for pity or sympathy as far as I'm aware.

3) If you feel that way about Urban, why are you here?

 

[DotCommunist]

indeed, it seems that the only person straight out the gates with a 'twat' is zippy himself

 

[Greebo]

indeed, it seems that the only person straight out the gates with a 'twat' is zippy himself

I can only wish that zippyRN had their fingers zipped shut anound their genitals so that they couldn't post on this thread. IMHO their contributions are neither use nor ornament.

 

[felixthecat]

it saeems there are two sides in chronic condition management on one side there are the majority of health professionals and an overall minority of patients / service users ( veery variable depending on condition) who work for the normalisation and integration of people with diabailities and chronic conditions and work o nthe basis of maximising independence and pushing effective disease management and rehab situations , on the other is a minority of of either ridciulously soppoy or party political motivated Health professionals and various groups of people with chronic conditions, some drawing on political ideologies, some drawing on the magic bullet woo of the various 'truthers' with regard to some ci#onditions and others who have a complete disconnect between the phyical and mental somatic aspects o f their condition and in doing so fail to help themselves and becasome agressive and insulting to anyone who doesn;t share their pity and give them sympathy . Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

What complete bollocks. It's quite fortunate you are not in clinical practice if that is your opinion of the majority of those with chronic diseases.

What's the betting it's never been your speciality anyway?

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

With that attitude I'm pleased that you're no longer practising. Callous prick.

 

[andysays]

I can only wish that zippyRN had their fingers zipped shut anound their genitals so that they couldn't post on this thread. IMHO their contributions are neither use nor ornament.

If it's any help, I find that if you imagine their posts spoken in the voice of their namesake and avatar they are quite amusing, though they still have little value as contributions to a discussion.

 

[felixthecat]

ATOS is still heavily recruiting for 'disability analysts' - as found in my inbox yesterday.......

"Dear Felixthecat
On behalf of Atos healthcare, I write with information regarding local employment and opportunities for Physiotherapists. We have interview availability for just two weeks which marks the last availability for the October training intake.

sjb medical is the only specialist medical recruitment partner for Disability Analyst clinical opportunities across the UK. This email sets out to provide further introduction to Atos Healthcare, the role of Disability Analyst and offers an invitation for your enquiry or application.

These roles offer a comprehensive 21 day training course that is fully paid for and University accredited, with the flexibility to work on either a full or part time basis upon completion of training. Full time hours are Monday to Friday 9am – 5pm with all bank holidays off, and part time vacancies from just 3 days a week you will no longer have to work weekends!

· £32,000 or £34,000 starting salary
· Monday to Friday 9 to 5 with all bank holidays off
· Excellent benefits package including
o Private medical insurance
o 25 days’ annual leave (plus 8 UK bank holidays)
o HCPC fee reimbursement
o Access to market leading stakeholder pension scheme
· Over 150 offices throughout the UK

To apply, refer or for further information

Email your CV to jobs@sjbmedical.com
Call 020 7832 1980
Visit www.sjbmedical.com

 

[DotCommunist]

32k a year to tell sick people why they can't have 12 n half

 

[felixthecat]

Btw - the salary is NHS analogue rates. Thats the normal salary for mid-increment band six.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

I guess that must be what someone's soul is worth these days

 

[Libertad]

No i don't work for ATOS as my own health, personal and professional Issues have kept me out of clinical practice for the past 2 years. I don't work for Capita either ( see previous post aobut the fact Capita don;t want anyone with any history of of referral to a professional regulator working for them - no doubt because of the utter shite spouted by the antis aobut people who were struck off working as DA for ATOS ).

Have you been referred to a professional regulator then? There's a surprise.

Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

Fuck off you cunt.

 

[Roadkill]

there's some presumptive twats on here,. but then again it's par for the course with Urban ...

No i don't work for ATOS as my own health, personal and professional Issues have kept me out of clinical practice for the past 2 years. I don't work for Capita either ( see previous post aobut the fact Capita don;t want anyone with any history of of referral to a professional regulator working for them - no doubt because of the utter shite spouted by the antis aobut people who were struck off working as DA for ATOS ).

it saeems there are two sides in chronic condition management on one side there are the majority of health professionals and an overall minority of patients / service users ( veery variable depending on condition) who work for the normalisation and integration of people with diabailities and chronic conditions and work o nthe basis of maximising independence and pushing effective disease management and rehab situations , on the other is a minority of of either ridciulously soppoy or party political motivated Health professionals and various groups of people with chronic conditions, some drawing on political ideologies, some drawing on the magic bullet woo of the various 'truthers' with regard to some ci#onditions and others who have a complete disconnect between the phyical and mental somatic aspects o f their condition and in doing so fail to help themselves and becasome agressive and insulting to anyone who doesn;t share their pity and give them sympathy . Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

Oh bollocks. Yes, there probably are some 'presumptive twats' here - that's the internet for you. But there's also one person who seems to be bending over backwards to defend a system that is completely unfit for purpose and has a long and well publicised track record of finding people fit to work when they manifestly are not; a system that uses people to assess conditions of which they have neither knowledge nor professional experience, and a system which, in the opinion of the Upper Tribunal, is especially disadvantageous to people with mental health conditions. That has precisely fuck all to do with soppy sentimentalism or political ideology, and everything to do with very well justified frustration at something that simply doesn't work.

Now, either deal with the points people have raised, or if you don't like being asked to do so, go away.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

Oh bollocks. Yes, there probably are some 'presumptive twats' here - that's the internet for you. But there's also one person who seems to be bending over backwards to defend a system that is completely unfit for purpose and has a long and well publicised track record of finding people fit to work when they manifestly are not; a system that uses people to assess conditions of which they have neither knowledge nor professional experience, and a system which, in the opinion of the Upper Tribunal, is especially disadvantageous to people with mental health conditions. That has precisely fuck all to do with soppy sentimentalism or political ideology, and everything to do with very well justified frustration at something that simply doesn't work.

Now, either deal with the points people have raised, or if you don't like being asked to do so, go away.

Couldn't have put it better myself

 

[andysays]

...Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

When I read this before, I was distracted by the voice I was imagining, so didn't pay full attention to the meaning.

It seems like a classic example of Newspeak to suggest that those carrying out ATOS assessments are engaging in "healthcare practice".

When you go to your GP with a problem, and they attempt some diagnosis and treatment, that is healthcare practice. If your GP is unable to deal adequetely with your problem and refers you to someone else, either for expert diagnosis or specialist treatment, that is healthcare practice. What these examples have in common is that the practitioner is attempting to care for/improve your health.

When you go to an ATOS assessor, they are attempting to decide whether or not your health allows you to work (cynically, they're attempting to demonstrate that it does...). There is absolutely no element of "care" involved. Although some of those carrying out these assessments might have once been healthcare practitioners, and even might like to tell themselves that's still what they're doing, they are clearly doing assessments not for the purposes of helping people to get better, but to serve the bureaucracy which seeks to deny often vulnerable people their means of support.

You are probably right that sympathy has no part in this process as it exists (and, I suspect, as it is intended to exist), but that just gives the lie to suggestions that the process is in any way intended to help the people who find themselves subjected to it.

 

[toggle]

underlying the wibble, it is 'work makes free'. the basic idea that pushing people into greater 'integration' and normalisation, ie, into work, will have a universally positive effect on their wellbeing. anyone who disagrees with this proposition is ignoring the links between mental and physical health. presumably those who don't get better according to schedule are those who relish the 'sick role' and deliberately 'fail to help themselves'.

I think a more careful look by anyone without their head so firmly lodged up their own arse that not even a vat of phaal will dislodge it, it is clear that this is the approach that elevates ideology over medicine. damn the diagnosis and prognosis, you will feel better if you just get off your arse and work.

 

[DotCommunist]

I can only wish that zippyRN had their fingers zipped shut anound their genitals so that they couldn't post on this thread. IMHO their contributions are neither use nor ornament.

imagine zippy with his foreskin trapped in his flies barking 'sympathy has no place!'

 

[Frances Lengel]

Zippy might have a point that sympathy has no place in healthcare practice - You don't want someone to feel sorry for you, you want someone who can do their job to a decent standard. But that's got nothing to do with ATOS and the ESA assessment which, as has already been mentioned, aren't fit for purpose for reasons already outlined by other posters & have nothing to do with healthcare practice anyway.

 

[Greebo]

<snip> that's got nothing to do with ATOS and the ESA assessment which, as has already been mentioned, aren't fit for purpose for reasons already outlined by other posters & have nothing to do with healthcare practice anyway.

Unless you count making somebody need more healthcare as a direct consequence (and believe you me it is direct) of going through the form and the assessment.

 

[toggle]

and while sympathy may have no place, empathy definitely does.

i'll also note the wrongness of assuming that paid employment is the only route to integration.

 

[butchersapron]

**wrong thread**

 

[andysays]

Zippy might have a point that sympathy has no place in healthcare practice - You don't want someone to feel sorry for you, you want someone who can do their job to a decent standard. But that's got nothing to do with ATOS and the ESA assessment which, as has already been mentioned, aren't fit for purpose for reasons already outlined by other posters & have nothing to do with healthcare practice anyway.

We may be going off on a bit of a tangent here, but it depends on what you take as the meaning of sympathy. There are at least two distinct meanings

1. feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.
   
   
2. understanding between people; common feeling.

While I can imagine effective healthcare which doesn't include the first, I'd like to think it should include the second, and when I have come across healthcare practitioners who I don't feel display sufficient levels of sympathy in this sense, I try to find someone else to deal with me where possible.

Sympathy in that second sense isn't the only thing I want from my doctor, or the most important, but it certainly doesn't hurt for them to show a little bit of it.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Fair enough.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bear in mind that as well as best ng an arse, zippy has been a firm advocate of work being, as toggle says, the universal panacea for long-term sick and disabled people. By their lights, even posting on Urban proves that you're fit and able for some sort of work.
Of course, millions of employers don't share zippy's conviction, but what do they know?

 

[felixthecat]

2. understanding between people; common feeling

Sympathy in that second sense isn't the only thing I want from my doctor, or the most important, but it certainly doesn't hurt for them to show a little bit of it.

And it's how you get people to comply with unpleasant treatment regimes. Personally I think it's an essential for a GOOD healthcare professional. It's not being 'soft' or being 'soppy', it's about understanding how they feel.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

Despite Zippy's rantings(annoying yet amusing as they are) I didn't post this thread to illicit sympathy. I did so to bring it to the attention of anyone under the illusion like I was that ATOS were finished

 

[friendofdorothy]

Despite Zippy's rantings(annoying yet amusing as they are) I didn't post this thread to illicit sympathy. I did so to bring it to the attention of anyone under the illusion like I was that ATOS were finished

yes I had been wondering who had taken over the contract - so I'm glad you made us aware.

snip
it saeems there are two sides in chronic condition management on one side there are the majority of health professionals and an overall minority of patients / service users ( veery variable depending on condition) who work for the normalisation and integration of people with diabailities and chronic conditions and work o nthe basis of maximising independence and pushing effective disease management and rehab situations , on the other is a minority of of either ridciulously soppoy or party political motivated Health professionals and various groups of people with chronic conditions, some drawing on political ideologies, some drawing on the magic bullet woo of the various 'truthers' with regard to some ci#onditions and others who have a complete disconnect between the phyical and mental somatic aspects o f their condition and in doing so fail to help themselves and becasome agressive and insulting to anyone who doesn;t share their pity and give them sympathy . Sympathy is an emotion which has no place in healthcare practice.

You should be able to get a job with ATOS no trouble with those sorts of attitudes.

Unless you count making somebody need more healthcare as a direct consequence (and believe you me it is direct) of going through the form and the assessment.

It's a stressful process, even if you don't have to appeal. Stress isn't helpful to many medical conditions.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

It's a stressful process, even if you don't have to appeal. Stress isn't helpful to many medical conditions.

To be frank, I think the DWP secretly hope people will find it too stressful and give up. Some more literally than others

 

[SpookyFrank]

To be frank, I think the DWP secretly hope people will find it too stressful and give up. Some more literally than others

I don't think it's even a secret tbh. The whole system is founded on the idea that 90% (or insert made-up statistic here) of sick people aren't really sick they're just lazy.

e2a: Of course they dress this up with some nonsense about making sure that those in genuine need get all the help they need while punishing the blaggers and scroungers, but they never explain how they reconcile such noble ambitions with the one-size-fits-all assessment system they've created, a system which seems to operate on the presumption that you're a scrounger until proven otherwise; regardless of what you, your doctor or basic human decency have to say about it.