LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I thought better of you, but your last few posts are just rubbish, and why post a bonkers 3 hour long YouTube video with no comment ffs? You think anyone here is going to watch that?!
Assange to face extradition
- Thread starter teqniq
- Start date
I thought better of you, but your last few posts are just rubbish, and why post a bonkers 3 hour long YouTube video with no comment ffs? You think anyone here is going to watch that?!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I've rarely read anything so fuckwitted. It's like the deaths of innocents wrongly targeted or as 'collateral damage' were only known about through assange's work. Whereas the deaths of civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan were widely reported from the get-go. USAF bombings of wedding parties became notorious, for example. Yeh if I was julian assange the future wouldn't look so rosy. But he's not some sort of left-wing hero. Lwh's don't work to engineer fascists' election, do they
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Yeah, he’s an untrustworthy twat. But that is separate from the fact that the us state wants him for exposing some of their murderous activities. Solidarity isn’t only given to people we think are nice, or it’s not really solidarity.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Yeah, I wouldn't really disagree with that, but the context of that post was someone asking "what is it about Assange that makes him so hated?", if they'd been asking "should Assange, who is undoubtedly a twat, be supported in the context of the espionage charges?" I'd have answered differently.
Although since the subject has come up, I will freely admit to being a bit bitter that Assange seems to get so much more attention and support compared to the cases of people like Brown, Hammond, Winner or Hale. (Leaving Manning off that list since she does seem to get at least a vaguely comparable amount of attention?) Admittedly, there is an argument to be made that people in the UK should pay more attention to the Assange case since "our" state is involved, but on the other hand, comparing it to the cases of Wootton, McConville, Bassalat, or recent events in Bristol, it does seem like UK-held prisoners who aren't Trump-assisting twats do tend to get less support as well?
It's not Assange I care about but the ramifications of jailing him. And I don't care for his politics at all.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there are two aspects to the documents for which the americans seek assange's extradition. on the one hand are the release of army documents, some of which expose the killings of civilians. on the other hand there are the documents which expose how the american government saw their allies. it is i think the embarrassment caused by the latter which has really caused the united states government to go after assange. after all, the americans' murderous activities have been well covered by journalists for many years and if you followed the news at all you'd have had to bury your head in the sand not to know about massacres in afganistan and iraq.
but i don't offer solidarity to assange. i don't think he deserves it. i think that the left which supports him supports him on the facile basis that he's seen as the enemy of american imperialism. i don't believe he is. the left which supports him seems to me to be largely the left that supported or lionised shayler. but shayler wasn't some civil liberties critic of the secret state. he was provoked by mi5's lack of efficiency.
i agree solidarity shouldn't be only given to people we think are nice. but it shouldn't be spread to people who are allied with the most reactionary elements. it should be offered on the basis of progressive struggle and ideas. and when someone allies themselves with trump and farage it's very very hard to see why they should be offered solidarity, which prevents that same solidarity (by nature of the time and resources involved) being offered to someone who actually deserves support.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
What are the ramifications? What will the state inflict on people that wouldn’t otherwise come up with?
rekil
to menny cranks
Assange cultists have spent the last 10 years doing this to cover for Assad, Iran and Russia. And sometimes just brazenly cheering on the carnage.
Smangus
comatose at a desk
What ramifications?
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
A very brief bit of digging turns this up:
Assange Indicted Under Espionage Act, Raising First Amendment Issues (Published 2019)
The WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange faces 17 counts in a superseding indictment over his role in obtaining and publishing classified documents in 2010.
While (as mentioned above) I don't have much sympathy for the man himself, it does sound like the espionage charges for publishing do indeed have some pretty dodgy implications?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Indeed. I don’t have any sympathy with his views, many of his actions, or the fact that he ran from a rape charge, but it doesn’t mean we should be relaxed about the US extraditing people.A very brief bit of digging turns this up:
Assange Indicted Under Espionage Act, Raising First Amendment Issues (Published 2019)
The WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange faces 17 counts in a superseding indictment over his role in obtaining and publishing classified documents in 2010.www.nytimes.com
While (as mentioned above) I don't have much sympathy for the man himself, it does sound like the espionage charges for publishing do indeed have some pretty dodgy implications?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so would you support a campaign to renegotiate the 2003 treaty which currently governs extradition from the uk to us?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I don’t feel the need for my moral judgements to be bound by the treaties of states.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
fair enough. i just wondered if you'd do anything concrete about your concerns over extradition to the usa
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Personally? No.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I know the guardian is crap,but total fucking fruitcake is ott. Ditto the Society of Editors, Ai Weiwei, Tulsa Gabbard, Edward Snowden, Rafael Correa and a whole shitload more.
If the fuckwits show up more in your timeline, perhaps the issues with said timeline.
Precisely the ramifications I was referring to. But apparently it's 'not important'.A very brief bit of digging turns this up:
Assange Indicted Under Espionage Act, Raising First Amendment Issues (Published 2019)
The WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange faces 17 counts in a superseding indictment over his role in obtaining and publishing classified documents in 2010.
While (as mentioned above) I don't have much sympathy for the man himself, it does sound like the espionage charges for publishing do indeed have some pretty dodgy implications?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Not sure your list convinces me much tbh! I don't have any sort of timeline. But he doesn't seem to have any people with decent politics supporting him does he? It's liberals at The Guardian or similar, minor washed-up celebrities, or conspiracy/Anonymous types.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I dont particularly mean 'your' as in LDC's, but I get told off if I say 'one'
The Society of Editors aren't liberals by any means, they're about the rights of journalists. Which is why the NUJ support him too. Rafael Correa isn't any of the things you say, or the other people I mentioned. He gets (critical) support from the large majority of the british left (although that does include wanky stalinists, of course).
Whose support do you want for him? Cos his vocal opponents are much bigger wankers.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
None really, I think he's completely irrelevant to any important politics or political struggle tbh. I was just musing on why his support (fair enough with your people, I guess I was thinking the ones I see 'on the ground' or in the media) seems to consist of people that I wouldn't want anything to do with. Bet there's a nice anti-vax/Assange support crossover tbh.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Tbh, my impression is that while there might be all sorts of people who vaguely support him and think the charges should be dropped, for whatever that's worth, the people who are actually motivated to campaign on the issue, organise Free Assange events and so on are very much at the fruitcakey end of things. Oh, crossposted with LDC saying pretty much the same thing.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i like the way yer man in the v for vendetta mask has 'nobel prize nominee' as tho that buttered some parsnips
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Thinking about it, is Free Assange stuff the only time anyone's seen the WSWS/SEP lot actually organise an event, or at least have a really visible presence? I must have been at loads of things over the years where someone from the WSWS has come up and given me a closely-typed double-sided A4 leaflet denouncing the leadership of whatever the demo's about, but I don't think I've ever actually seen them with big signs like that.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's not the first outing for those signs
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'd prefer that this discussion was taking place in a Swedish context, after he'd faced a Swedish court and been found guilty or not guilty over there.
Given that's not where we are, I'm conflicted. Assange is horrible, as a person and with his 'guru' status for some on the 'left'. He's the author of his own misfortune in a number of ways. Having said that, there's a bit of me that has an intake of breath at the idea of anyone spending decades in a supermax prison. Maybe he should just go on the list of people who have been screwed by the American justice system, not on a list of martyrs or superheroes. If he'd had a bit less of a messianic self image, I doubt he'd be where he is now.
Given that's not where we are, I'm conflicted. Assange is horrible, as a person and with his 'guru' status for some on the 'left'. He's the author of his own misfortune in a number of ways. Having said that, there's a bit of me that has an intake of breath at the idea of anyone spending decades in a supermax prison. Maybe he should just go on the list of people who have been screwed by the American justice system, not on a list of martyrs or superheroes. If he'd had a bit less of a messianic self image, I doubt he'd be where he is now.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Narcissist sex pest locked up. Some of his organisations post embarrassed the USA and us, not sure they told us anything we didn't know as has been pointed out. Some leaks cost people working against authoritarian regimes their lives. He won't see inside Supermax Florence much less a death chamber despite what some pearl clutchers are claiming.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I think it is part of the extradition deal that he won't spend time in a supermax. If he's convicted, he will serve his sentence in Australia.
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