Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
maybe he'll end up in the goulburn correctional centre
Assange to face extradition
- Thread starter teqniq
- Start date
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Sure it must've been mentioned plenty on here already, but there is an impressive irony in that it would be much better for him as well if the discussion was taking place in a Swedish context:
Would Sweden Ever Extradite Assange to the United States?
Two years into his stay at the Ecuadorean Embassy in London, where he is hiding from Swedish authorities looking to question him in connection with…
foreignpolicy.com
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Shows how much I keep up with stuff.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Or the Wentworth Detention Centre.
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
I don't see what any of this has got to do with politics and why I should be bothered, Assange is a horrible person with dodgy views on things and if the US want to lock him up, we'll that's their business.
Not sure why he has a messiah status. It can't be difficult to build a website to publish stuff on. I suppose he had the guts to do it but I assume he wasn't alone. Why aren't others in the dock with him?
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
And the Wikileaks thing. Didn't we know that these Imperialist regimes are rotten anyway, and that wars are unjust, so what's new about that? Better to resign ourselves and leave them off at it.
Plus it seemingly changed fuck all.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm not going to pretend the Americans locking him up is a 'neutral' issue or one I should be unconcerned about. However everything about Assange, his politics, his 'status' and his behaviour pares that concern back to the bone. Fuck the Americans and fuck Assange.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i hear the ecuadorian embassy in canberra has been rehearsing what to do to repel political asylum-seeking messiahs
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
'Our' politics should be focused on the state and its reaction to particular events, and supporting certain iviolable rights and principles. I'm less interested in whether Assange himself happens to be a jerk, other than being satisfied he isn't a full blown fascist.
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
The entire left has seemingly changed fuck all in the last twenty years. The biggest anti-war protests seen in a generation also seemingly changed fuck all. We can go on.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
'our' politics should perhaps be focused on weakening the state and its disciplinary functions, and strengthening working class communities - building communities of resistance.
Yes, but at least most of us weren't being extradited to a harsh sentence for changing fuck all.
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
'We' can also have problems convincing others of the sanctity or durability of our politics by having nothing to say about the US vs Assange, or by failing to give the least bit of critical support. Unsavoury and troublesome people exist everywhere, including in our own local communities. This doesn't mean that I walk out on them if they have been unfairly targeted by the state.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Agree. But then there's the facts of the case. Assange started out working with major news organisations and using their legal and other expertise to ensure that material wasn't released that would risk exposing anyone to harm. Given that that's they way he was working, and that the material was in the public interest, what he was involved in was legitimate journalism and he ought to be protected from prosecution (IMO, not necessarily in the eyes of the law).
But then one day he got into a spat with the Guardian (I think it was because they wanted to hold back certain material until after the Manning trial) and, in a childish fit, he released a massive amount of unvetted stuff directly via Wikileaks. That's morally unforgivable, and I don't see how anyone can say it's unreasonable to regard it as a serious crime. So, with that act, I think he loses the right to expect sympathy and also the right to dodge his day in court (if he ever had that right).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no one from 'the real world' has ever mentioned julian assange to me, or suggested that my attitude to his situation was a touchstone by which i would be judged.
andysays
Love and solidarity
And given that this act of recklessness definitely endangered the lives of many and has almost certainly led directly to the deaths of some whose data he released, he has, in my opinion, lost any claim he might once have had to anything resembling solidarity.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Was your first post sarcastic, or did you have a massive conversion over the course of this afternoon?
elbows
Well-Known Member
In addition to the sex crime cases and issues of unredacted sensitive data being released, there were other notable problems:
He ignored warnings about honeytraps
He utterly failed in one of his stated missions - to demonstrate that people could leak and whistleblow without having their lives ruined.
He failed to play well with media partners, perhas sometimes for reasonable reasons, but not always.
He gave some stupid interviews to the business press which revealed dodgy attitudes about his sense of ownership of information given to wikileaks.
Some of those I critiqued on u75 at the time, before the more recent chapters of wikileaks and Assange. What happens to him next will contain elements which should highlight and be of concern to people in regards the nature of certain charges, aspects of extradition etc. Unfortunately this high-profile opportunity to explore such things will be hampered by the aforementioned baggage in this case, peoples opinions of him and some of the things he said and did will significantly muddy the waters and make a more clinical discussion about the broader politics and legal aspects extremely difficult.
Its also quite possible that a range of specific activities and conversations he had will go well beyond traditional leaking & journalistic approaches to such information and causes, and may very well get into some very dodgy political territory and collusion with certain state actions.
He ignored warnings about honeytraps
He utterly failed in one of his stated missions - to demonstrate that people could leak and whistleblow without having their lives ruined.
He failed to play well with media partners, perhas sometimes for reasonable reasons, but not always.
He gave some stupid interviews to the business press which revealed dodgy attitudes about his sense of ownership of information given to wikileaks.
Some of those I critiqued on u75 at the time, before the more recent chapters of wikileaks and Assange. What happens to him next will contain elements which should highlight and be of concern to people in regards the nature of certain charges, aspects of extradition etc. Unfortunately this high-profile opportunity to explore such things will be hampered by the aforementioned baggage in this case, peoples opinions of him and some of the things he said and did will significantly muddy the waters and make a more clinical discussion about the broader politics and legal aspects extremely difficult.
Its also quite possible that a range of specific activities and conversations he had will go well beyond traditional leaking & journalistic approaches to such information and causes, and may very well get into some very dodgy political territory and collusion with certain state actions.
That got me scratching my head a bit also.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Completely untrue. He is at risk of 175 years and the US had reserved the right to put him in a maximum security facility or to subject him to special administrative measures – ie solitary.
Reporters Without Borders note that the acts he is charged with “could be applied to any media outlet that published stories based on the leaked documents, or indeed any journalist, publisher or source anywhere in the world”
But fuck that, he’s supported by the World Shittest WebSite lot, so he obviously deserves whatever’s coming to him.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
What do you do support him and try to keep him out of a US jail out of interest? Do you think any of it makes any difference?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
tbh, other than signing petitions and letters of protest, pretty much bugger all. Maybe arguing intemperately on the internet will convince one or two other people to do the same. I suspect the most useful thing at the moment would be pressurising the aussie government to step up their condemnations of the process and to actually defend the rights of one of their citizens. Bound to be more useful than appealing to PP's conscience. Just talking about it and keeping it in the news helps a bit.
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
The first was not sincere, and an attitude expressed in this thread I was poking at. I thought it would become apparent over the following posts, but this being the internet amongst other things...
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It's been widely reported that the US only got the appeal to go their way by making various promises to the court, including that they would put Assange in a regular prison while he's awaiting trial. If that's completely untrue, maybe you could explain.
I will agree that he potentially faces a long sentence (although unlikely to be anything like 175 years). Maybe we shouldn't have an extradition treaty with the US. But given that we do, I don't see what distinguishes Assange in this respect, given that I think the idea he's done nothing wrong is for the birds.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Not true. It helped get Trump elected.
Ah yeah, he helped get the Elite in again. Only this time masquerading as the Anti-Elite.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
They add the key proviso of 'as long as he does what we want him too' - ie they can go back on their promise on a whim. (see The US diplomatic assurances are inherently unreliable. Julian Assange must be released)
The Espionage Act has no public interest defense. Assange is the first publisher to be prosecuted under it so it would set an important precedent. The fact that he is in many ways a crap journalist does not alter the fact that this amounts to an attack on any and all journalists. What better way to start such a move than with the prosecution of someone who has done many indefensible things (just not the ones he's being extradited for)?
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Neither Washington nor Quito but International Shoulder-Shrugging!
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