Assange to face extradition

[Random]

Good article on LibCoM btw http://libcom.org/blog/enemy-my-enemy-notes-not-having-really-shit-politics-22082012

 

[cesare]

If you keep on with the single-sentence posts on this it's hard for me to engage. I have to second-guess what you actually mean, and reply to that.

Earlier, I edited to add a second sentence to the post of mine that you took issue with, and (afaik) misrepresented. There are two problems that I personally find with your analysis (1) the implication that the UK's response to JA's behaviour is nothing more than kowtowing to the US; and (2) that the response to allegations of rape boil down to politics.

 

[Random]

Earlier, I edited to add a second sentence to the post of mine that you took issue with, and (afaik) misrepresented. There are two problems that I personally find with your analysis (1) the implication that the UK's response to JA's behaviour is nothing more than kowtowing to the US; and (2) that the response to allegations of rape boil down to politics.

Thanks. I don't see how your edit adds much. Feminism and equality politics isn't just about women. The response of dismissing the rape allegations has shown just how shallowly-seated feminism and equality are as part of some left politics.

As for the UK, its ruling class certainly is playing up to show just how loyal they are to the USA. But this isn't merely a response to the US. The fact is that the UK and US ruling classes have convergent interests, so the UK both defends its own system and also at the same time strengthens its own position in the transatlantic special relationship.

Having said that, I have no special insight in this, unlike my posts on Sweden. I'm simply going on what I already know about the UK and about the "anti-imperialists". As Butchers already said, many of them already have blood on their hands.

 

[cesare]

Thanks. I don't see how your edit adds much. Feminism and equality politics isn't just about women. The response of dismissing the rape allegations has shown just how shallowly-seated feminism and equality are as part of some left politics.

I know that feminism and equality politics isn't just about women, that was the point of my edit. However I see the response of dismissing the rape allegations, as not merely a criticism of the shallow-seated ness of left politics but of people (of whatever political persuasion) that still hold views which amount to rape apology.

As for the UK, its ruling class certainly is playing up to show just how loyal they are to the USA. But this isn't merely a response to the US. The fact is that the UK and US ruling classes have convergent interests, so the UK both defends its own system and also at the same time strengthens its own position in the transatlantic special relationship.

Having said that, I have no special insight in this, unlike my posts on Sweden. I'm simply going on what I already know about the UK and about the "anti-imperialists". As Butchers already said, many of them already have blood on their hands.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Random]

However I see the response of dismissing the rape allegations, as not merely a criticism of the shallow-seated ness of left politics but of people (of whatever political persuasion) that still hold views which amount to rape apology.

I'm not sure what this means. Can you rephrase it? Are you saying something similar to what I said earlier, about how this issues has smoked some people out?

 

[cesare]

I'm not sure what this means. Can you rephrase it? Are you saying something similar to what I said earlier, about how this issues has smoked some people out?

I think it's smoked some people out, but those smoked-out people aren't limited to those on the left (because it's possible to be on the right, or in the centre and not hold views amounting to rape apology).

 

[Random]

I think it's smoked some people out, but those smoked-out people aren't limited to those on the left (because it's possible to be on the right, or in the centre and not hold views amounting to rape apology).

Again, it's very very hard to work out what you meant. As a bland and blanket respons I'll just say that I have very few expectations that anyone on the right or in the centre will have vaguely sound views at all.

 

[Pickman's model]

Again, it's very very hard to work out what you meant. As a bland and blanket respons I'll just say that I have very few expectations that anyone on the right or in the centre will have vaguely sound views at all.

sounds to me like you see the right and centre as fairly monolithick and not - as t.j. hooker would have said - containing a million shades of grey.

 

[Random]

sounds to me like you see the right and centre as fairly monolithick and not - as t.j. hooker would have said - containing a million shades of grey.

I think they are monolithickally not worth me wasting my time over. Most people are not signed up to any political ideology. I've better things to do than engage with tories and lib dems.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think they are monolithickally not worth me wasting my time over. Most people are not signed up to any political ideology. I've better things to do than engage with tories and lib dems.

like?

 

[cesare]

Again, it's very very hard to work out what you meant. As a bland and blanket respons I'll just say that I have very few expectations that anyone on the right or in the centre will have vaguely sound views at all.

I don't know many people on the right, but there's plenty that I know on the centre. Some of their views are sound, and others not. However, I feel as "wtf" about rape apology from those where I hear it from the centre as I do from those on the left. I don't think the left should be under any illusion that they are less likely to have rape apologists within their number.

 

[cesare]

I think they are monolithickally not worth me wasting my time over. Most people are not signed up to any political ideology. I've better things to do than engage with tories and lib dems.

Plenty of Tories and LibDems In the WC.

 

[Random]

like?

Eating cake

 

[Random]

I don't know many people on the right, but there's plenty that I know on the centre. Some of their views are sound, and others not. However, I feel as "wtf" about rape apology from those where I hear it from the centre as I do from those on the left. I don't think the left should be under any illusion that they are less likely to have rape apologists within their number.

I don't agree. Leftism is about egalitarianism or it's about nothing, and that has to include sexual/gender egalitarianism, or it's worthless.

 

[Random]

Plenty of Tories and LibDems In the WC.

Mostly I'm talking about public political figures, rather than people I meet in everyday life. Crusty dyed in the wool tories and lib dems are not something I'm interested in. Crusty lefties, however, should know better. And left leaders can poison whole movements/campaigns by coming out with this sort of crap. I'm very impressed that Salma Yacqoob has openly ticked Galloway off. Aren't they the two main people in Respect?

 

[cesare]

I don't agree. Leftism is about egalitarianism or it's about nothing, and that has to include sexual/gender egalitarianism, or it's worthless.

In theory, yes. In practice, that's not how it plays out as evidenced by this Assange mess. It's exactly this kind of "oh noes, a member of the left is a rape apologist which should only happen amongst the politically unaligned, the centre and the right, yuk" that leaves me scratching my head and joining forces with LLETSA.

Edit: and the comments on that Libcom article you linked to show you the variety of idiots that you get on the left as well.

 

[cesare]

Mostly I'm talking about public political figures, rather than people I meet in everyday life. Crusty dyed in the wool tories and lib dems are not something I'm interested in. Crusty lefties, however, should know better. And left leaders can poison whole movements/campaigns by coming out with this sort of crap. I'm very impressed that Salma Yacqoob has openly ticked Galloway off. Aren't they the two main people in Respect?

Well, mostly I'm talking about people I meet in everyday life.

 

[paulhackett]

The Frankie Boyle contribution

Got a new alarm clock. The ring is George Galloway's voice saying "Sshh..Go back to sleep". I'm dressed and out the door before it goes off.

 

[frogwoman]

there are definitely predatory men on the left (and I don't know, but there are probably predatory women as well). And I do feel a lot more "wtf" about it because the crime of rape and the fact that it supports a patriarchal system is not what the left is meant to be about

i don't feel as "wtf" about it as i did. however it does make you feel a lot more disgusted and disillusioned both with the people who do that sort of shit, and the left as a whole, because the left is meant to be about equality and that sort of thing but some people are only involved so that they can take advantage of people. And when you encounter people who perv on you during political stuff it does make you question sometimes whether the whole thing is just a load of bullshit.

 

[Citizen66]

Assange isn't on the left though.

 

[Random]

In theory, yes. In practice, that's not how it plays out as evidenced by this Assange mess. It's exactly this kind of "oh noes, a member of the left is a rape apologist which should only happen amongst the politically unaligned, the centre and the right, yuk" that leaves me scratching my head and joining forces with LLETSA.

Edit: and the comments on that Libcom article you linked to show you the variety of idiots that you get on the left as well.

What idiotic comments? May have simply blanked them, but seemed fine.

Rather than joining LLETSA, why not work to make anarcho/leftism live up to its promises on egalitarianism?

 

[Balbi]

Try telling that to them as you wake up with their hands on you and their cock in you though

The politics of the left appears not to have had to face the politics of identity, gender, sex and freedom for a while. And now that it is, there's an awful lot of completeand utter shites being revealed.

 

[Random]

Well, mostly I'm talking about people I meet in everyday life.

No one I meet here in Sweden supports Assange's arguments about not being extradited at all. So I only do this kind of argument on the net.

 

[belboid]

The politics of the left appears not to have had to face the politics of identity, gender, sex and freedom for a while. And now that it is, there's an awful lot of completeand utter shites being revealed.

eh? One of the main problems for the left has been a total acquiescence to such identity politics. That a small number of 'leading' lefties (lets ignore the shouting eejits on the internet) are coming out with utterly despicable 'defences' of Assange doesn't change that.

 

[Balbi]

If they've acquiesced so much to it, why are they so fucking awful at dealing with a non-polarised issue then?

Or rather, this is an issue the left actually get media exposure on. And what's being exposed is fucking ugly.

 

[the button]

I don't agree. Leftism is about egalitarianism or it's about nothing.

It certainly should be. However -- as you're probably aware -- there have been two or three of occasions in the past few months where "the left" has attempted to deal with the shitty attitudes to women of some in its ranks. The link below is one example:

http://angrywomen.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/awol-statement-on-sexual-harassment-in-activist-spaces/

On *every* occasion that I'm aware of, there have been some who have sided with the perpetrator, and those attempting to set up some kind of accountability process have been accused of acting in authoritarian way. The Assange case is just a high-profile example of these shitty attitudes.

 

[cesare]

eh? One of the main problems for the left has been a total acquiescence to such identity politics. That a small number of 'leading' lefties (lets ignore the shouting eejits on the internet) are coming out with utterly despicable 'defences' of Assange doesn't change that.

One of the main problems for the left has been the inability to integrate "identity politics" into its raison d'etre.

 

[Balbi]

"Over here I keep my social justice politics, in that jar over there are my economic management politics and somewhere at the back of this cupboard is a dusty box filled with my gender, identity and sexual politics."

*rummages through cupboard*

"MUUUUUUMMMM, have you seen my stance on the BNP and other far right groups?"

 

[the button]

And here's some more on responses to the above:

https://smashkyriarchy.wordpress.co...e-pdf-sexual-harrassment-statement-from-awol/

 

[cesare]

And why the fuck (now that I'm really annoyed again) should abuse of power manifesting in e.g. sexual assault be a feminist/equality/identity politics issue?