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Assange to face extradition

Well I picked that up from here :D can't remember who said but don't recall it being challenged. :hmm: glad to be corrected though.
 
Citizen66 said:
Well I picked that up from here :D can't remember who said but don't recall it being challenged. :hmm: glad to be corrected though.
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It may have been sexist in the 1950s compared to the Societ dreams of the 1920s, but it was far far more advanced than other semi-feudal societies in eastern europe.
 
Sorry. That lastbit is my interpretation. Pilger supports Julian against the forces of oppression chasing him, without noting that Julian's the one who started running, starting obfuscating and then casually pushes aside the actual cause of the need for questioning with the standard ITS TOTALLY THE USA THAT MADE ASSANGE PENETRATE A WOMAN WHILE SHE WAS ASLEEP AND HOLD ANOTHER DOWN WITHOUT USING A CONDOM DESPITE HER EXPRESSING THAT WISH bullshit.

When it comes to the facts of the case, as opposed to the supposition, conspiracies and denail expressed by sme Assange supporters, i'm not in fantasy land.
 
Balbi said:
Www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2012/08/pursuit-julian-assange-assault-freedom-and-mockery-journalism

:facepalm:

James Ball pointed out that the staggers leader steps a way, way, waaaaay back from Pilger.

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifesty...must-not-dismiss-or-diminish-allegations-rape
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not sure what your point is. The Stateseman - still owned by an ultra-Blairiate isnt it? So hardly surprising that their editorial decides not to cover the reasons why Assange is actually in the Ecuadorian embassy. To talk solely about one without the other is to do both a mis-service.
 
Balbi said:
Sorry. That lastbit is my interpretation. Pilger supports Julian against the forces of oppression chasing him, without noting that Julian's the one who started running, starting obfuscating and then casually pushes aside the actual cause of the need for questioning with the standard ITS TOTALLY THE USA THAT MADE ASSANGE PENETRATE A WOMAN WHILE SHE WAS ASLEEP AND HOLD ANOTHER DOWN WITHOUT USING A CONDOM DESPITE HER EXPRESSING THAT WISH bullshit.
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and you're lying again. You have a go at someone for being a tad hyperbolic and obfuscation, and then make a bunch of stuff up??!! Doesnt really do your argument much good, does it?
 
Why's Julian in the embassy? Because he lost his court battle to prevent extradition to Sweden for questioning about acts which his defence have conceded he has commited.

By questioning the documents etc, etc Pilger casually pushes it all aside to continuehis rant against the evilempires pursuit.

If you think i'm lying, that's ok :)
 
Balbi said:
If you think i'm lying, that's ok :)
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" ITS TOTALLY THE USA THAT MADE ASSANGE PENETRATE A WOMAN WHILE SHE WAS ASLEEP AND HOLD ANOTHER DOWN WITHOUT USING A CONDOM DESPITE HER EXPRESSING THAT WISH"
you know full well that the above was never stated anywhere, so you are lying. Simple as that.
 
Fair enough, but he dismisses Assanges actions, which I stated in capitals, which have been conceded by his legal team as having occured and do indeed qualify as rape under Swedish laws. He's suckered into the same shit argument which comes down to who cares if he did it or not, he's being pursued by the US so we must support him. Despite, y'know, him not being actively pursued by the US or anyone but the Met and Sweden right now. Its the bullshit that Assange has spun, conflating his professional work with wikileaks with his own personal actions.

I got over annoyed apologies, but the whole issue winds me the fuck up.
 
Balbi said:
Fair enough, but he dismisses Assanges actions, which I stated in capitals, which have been conceded by his legal team as having occured and do indeed qualify as rape under Swedish laws.
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No they havent. They have said Assange has sex with the women - not that he 'used his body weight' to pin them down, nor that he demanded unprotected sex. It is those that might mean he faces a charge of rape.

He's suckered into the same shit argument which comes down to who cares if he did it or not, he's being pursued by the US so we must support him. Despite, y'know, him not being actively pursued by the US or anyone but the Met and Sweden right now.
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oh come on. The US are pursuing him, they're just astute enough not to have demanded any extradition yet. Assange doies have real reason to fear being extradited there. So the Swedish state should intervene in the case again to say he wont be deported for anything to do with wikileaks. Put the onus back on Assange to come and face the music for the alleged sex crimes. Give him - and his suporters - no excuses.
 
Wow, atrocious editing there.

And they have admitted that he penetrated a woman while she was asleep. That's the big one.

And the Swedish state won't give Assange special exemption from the usual laws of extradition, because Julian Assange is not a special little fucking rainbow unicorn who should be allowed to engage with legal systems in whatever way he wants to. It's case by case. The same for you, the same for me.
 
belboid said:
No they havent. They have said Assange has sex with the women - not that he 'used his body weight' to pin them down, nor that he demanded unprotected sex. It is those that might mean he faces a charge of rape.
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The rape charge is the asleep thing - those above are sexual molestation and coercion.
 
Random said:
No one I meet here in Sweden supports Assange's arguments about not being extradited at all. So I only do this kind of argument on the net.
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Going back to this, because there wasn't time earlier. Are you seeing much pressure being exerted on the Swedish govt by Swedish citizens, for the govt to stop sitting back and watching how things play out?
 
And, the Assange defence at the extradition hearing admitted that the complainants description was fair and accurate. On the 12th July 2011, actually.

And I don't think he's guilty, I only know what the allegations are and what his lawyers have conceded. It's my desire that he goes and answers the damn questions and stops playing games.
 
cesare said:
Going back to this, because there wasn't time earlier. Are you seeing much pressure being exerted on the Swedish govt by Swedish citizens, for the govt to stop sitting back and watching how things play out?
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No, none at all. There's the odd situation that Assange's attacks on Sweden has managed to unite everyone from anarchists to Christian Democrats against him. having said that, if the government handed him over to the USA I think all hell would break loose, since everyone except the hard right was very supportive of him before the allegations, and many are still supportive of Wikileaks and Manning.

All just feelings I get from talking to people and reading the papers/twitter btw.
 
Random said:
No, none at all. There's the odd situation that Assange's attacks on Sweden has managed to unite everyone from anarchists to Christian Democrats against him. having said that, if the government handed him over to the USA I think all hell would break loose, since everyone except the hard right was very supportive of him before the allegations, and many are still supportive of Wikileaks and Manning.

All just feelings I get from talking to people and reading the papers/twitter btw.
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Ta. No demonstrations etc then.
 
Balbi said:
Does anyone have John Pilger's number? Someone might want to text him and tell him to calm down a bit.


Www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2012/08/pursuit-julian-assange-assault-freedom-and-mockery-journalism

Pursuing Assange is an assault on freedom, Assange fleeing questioning over his sexual assault on women is fine though.
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A minor but but revealing bit in all that hyperbole was the bit about the guardian. He seemed to be at least implying they should have avoided taking up the rape story as they'd profitted from the original wikileaks stuff. Now that would have been immoral.

In passing, I've always had a problem with Pilger's breathless prose and conflations of issues and powers. It's in the back of your mind when you are seeing/reading stuff you agree with, but really jars when it's something like this.
 
Balbi said:
Wow, atrocious editing there.

And they have admitted that he penetrated a woman while she was asleep. That's the big one.
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But the key is actually that he continued whilst she was awake. Without that, there would be absolutely zero chance of a conviction for rape - which is (most likely) why the original prosecutor said there was no rape case.

And the Swedish state won't give Assange special exemption from the usual laws of extradition, because Julian Assange is not a special little fucking rainbow unicorn who should be allowed to engage with legal systems in whatever way he wants to. It's case by case. The same for you, the same for me.
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Wrong. He is a man with a real fear of being extradited to a third country. Sweden could resolve the issue by giving Assange the re-assurance he wants, and which they are fully entitled to give, that he wont be extradited on charges relating to wikilieaks. It is the Swedish states refusal to do so that is playing games.

Random has given reasons as to why Sweden are acting that way - they keep everyone on side without having to openly 'do' anything. But all that does is mean there can be no justice for Assange or the women accusing him.
 
@wilf That bit strikes me as odd. If they hadn't taken up the story about the rape charges, wouldn't they be, well, not being journalists.
 
Wilf said:
A minor but but revealing bit in all that hyperbole was the bit about the guardian. He seemed to be at least implying they should have avoided taking up the rape story as they'd profitted from the original wikileaks stuff. Now that would have been immoral.
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No he doesnt.
 
His fear is so real he applied for residency of Sweden before these allegations were made? That he fled to a country that it's easier to be extradited from than Sweden. Ok.
 
Balbi said:
@wilf That bit strikes me as odd. If they hadn't taken up the story about the rape charges, wouldn't they be, well, not being journalists.
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Absolutely. As always, journalists motives are mixed, messy and even opportunistic. However, a willingness to criticise the behaviour of someone you agree with elsewhere has always seemed to me like a pretty good trait. One that Galloway could try and learn.
 
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