Army to review female close combat roles
- Thread starter weltweit
- Start date
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
likesfish
You can't park here sir
The f104 wasnt a bad fair weather interceptor.
Just a lousy all weather low level strike plane made worse by pilots training in texas nice weather lack of hills
Coming back to germany hills bad weather lockheed martin paid massived bribes to flogg it to the germans.
The germans could have brought thr british lighting which wouldnt have been much better in the role but at least had a ejector seat that went up
Just a lousy all weather low level strike plane made worse by pilots training in texas nice weather lack of hills
Coming back to germany hills bad weather lockheed martin paid massived bribes to flogg it to the germans.
The germans could have brought thr british lighting which wouldnt have been much better in the role but at least had a ejector seat that went up
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Infantry work is very physically demanding. Squaddies have to lug around 44lbs+ of kit at any time, running jumping, crawling and hiding.
This tends to break people, many squaddies don't have working knees after a few years. Backs don't last forever either.
Women are on average weaker and more fragile than men. Even those who are stronger and fitter than the vast majority of men aren't superwoman, they still tend to struggle with both injury and strength. It is a physically abusive job.
Given that the army is normally hard pushed to get recruits and keep them there is a good point to be made to steer those recruits to roles where they won't be medically discharged before they finish training. But there will be some female idiots who want to become an Infantry soldier and can pass the training, it isn't going to end the world and I'm not that convinced it will suddenly make infantry sections into bullet magnets either.
This tends to break people, many squaddies don't have working knees after a few years. Backs don't last forever either.
Women are on average weaker and more fragile than men. Even those who are stronger and fitter than the vast majority of men aren't superwoman, they still tend to struggle with both injury and strength. It is a physically abusive job.
Given that the army is normally hard pushed to get recruits and keep them there is a good point to be made to steer those recruits to roles where they won't be medically discharged before they finish training. But there will be some female idiots who want to become an Infantry soldier and can pass the training, it isn't going to end the world and I'm not that convinced it will suddenly make infantry sections into bullet magnets either.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Do you mean teenage girls and young women (some from the local schools and Komsomol) who operated anti-aircraft guns? They repositioned them horizontally so they could fire at approaching tanks. The gunners were obstinate in their defence of the city but were defeated within a day, weren't they?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The key phrase there is "when they worked"
The tanks seldom worked, more German tanks were lost to mechanical breakdowns than to allied action.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
The f104 wasnt a bad fair weather interceptor.
Just a lousy all weather low level strike plane made worse by pilots training in texas nice weather lack of hills
Coming back to germany hills bad weather lockheed martin paid massived bribes to flogg it to the germans.
The germans could have brought thr british lighting which wouldnt have been much better in the role but at least had a ejector seat that went up
Only the F-104A had the downward firing seat. All subsequent variants, including the Luftwaffe F-104Gs, fire up. I think the USAF As were later refitted to fire up also.
The EE Lightning was absolutely inferior to the F-104 in just about every respect. Especially the weapons and avionics fit by the time of the G.
Track bashing like most other things is about 80% intelligence not brute strength and ignorance,now most militaries are a bit short on the intelligence bit but very long on the brute force and ignorance.Therefore I suspect having more women could only be an improvement.
Of course why anyone male or female with a functioning brain would want to be part of the military is a different question altogether.
Of course why anyone male or female with a functioning brain would want to be part of the military is a different question altogether.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Yeah those teenage girls, obstinate and probably great at doing their nails and whatevs but rubbish at repositioning anti-aircraft guns and defending their city which they succeeded in doing, didn't they?
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Thanks for inferring such offensive bullshit about the content of my post. Carry on with the teenage girls kicking ass creepiness while being factually incorrect too, if you want.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
No thanks needed, your offensive bullshit and creepiness inference is all your own.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i'm in two minds - firstly having served with women in what are, in practical terms, infantry roles under infantry conditions, theres no doubt in my mind that some women can do the role, in exactly the same way that some men can do the role. however, i would question whether many (and i'm talking handfuls over the 30+ infantry Bn's..) would either meet the standard in the medium to long term, or would want to do the job in the long term.
if you are a Search Dog Handler, or an ATO, or a Forward Air Controller/Forward Observation Officer, or an interpreter/Int specialist, or in a RE Search Team, or a Medic, or half-a-dozen other roles, you will operate right at the front end of an Infantry Platoon. you will carry the same weight as the Infantry soldier next to you, you will fire your rifle in the same way, you will fix - and sometimes use - your bayonet in the same way as the Infantry soldier next to you, you have a different job, but you will, in extremis, close with, and kill the enemy with your rifle, your grenade and your bayonet. female British soldiers have done all those things - and yes, they've killed Taleban with their bayonets. no squeamishness there i think...
if you are a Search Dog Handler, or an ATO, or a Forward Air Controller/Forward Observation Officer, or an interpreter/Int specialist, or in a RE Search Team, or a Medic, or half-a-dozen other roles, you will operate right at the front end of an Infantry Platoon. you will carry the same weight as the Infantry soldier next to you, you will fire your rifle in the same way, you will fix - and sometimes use - your bayonet in the same way as the Infantry soldier next to you, you have a different job, but you will, in extremis, close with, and kill the enemy with your rifle, your grenade and your bayonet. female British soldiers have done all those things - and yes, they've killed Taleban with their bayonets. no squeamishness there i think...
seventh bullet
sovietwave
I don't know about you, but I don't think a situation where teenagers (kids really) male or female, and some of them fresh out of school, being blown into pieces or burned within hours, with little in the way of support from the regular army is something to celebrate, even if you recognise their undoubted courage in a situation that gave them little choice but that a course of action.
But, anyway, lets talk about teenage girls 'kicking ass.'
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Celebrating kids being blown to bits or teenage girls 'kicking ass'? WTF?
seventh bullet
sovietwave
You were annoyed about being wrong and confusing the later street fighting with the gunners and so tried to imply I am a sexist. And a post of yours which didn't say much beyond giving the Germans what for (Yeah!). The gunners failed. Me pointing that out doesn't mean I think they failed strictly because most of them were female, and you're a shit for trying to make out that that is what I meant in my earlier post.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
They're quite handy, actually, what with the usual pair of .50s, and pair of 7.62s, and the grenade launchers and the armour. Very effective tool for clearing the enemy from the streets, and handy for demos on the housing where the pesky enemy are hiding, too!
And yes, tanks are more easily-destroyed in an urban environment, but only if the enemy has suitable materiel for tank-busting.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
One of those buxom nuns who happen to be wearing stockings under their habits, or some old girl who's been Mother Superior since Pope John Paul II was a village priest?
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
An idea the Germans had already had with their 88s, which turned out to be middling at A-A, but superb as standard mobile artillery.
Beevor pretty much says that most of the artillery was rolled-up (either over-run or barraged into non-existence) within about a day, yep.
Haven't read too much else about Stalingrad yet, so I don't know whether Beevor is giving a party line, or being controversial about it, IYSWIM.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
OK, tanks weren't great at street-fighting in 1942 then
Sometimes (as with some of the Renault tanks the French had in '39) because the armour was concentrated on the glacis plate and the flanks, and left the engine covers weak enough to be blown to shit with a well-aimed potato-masher. Once you can access the engine it's "frying tonight!!!" time.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
OK, tanks weren't great at street-fighting in 1942 then
Cav, well dressed - and well meaning - but not really cut out for modern (or after about Crecy..) warfare.
the key to winning a streetfight is not be in the street. be about 10 miles away with lots of 155mm SP Guns, an endless supply of ammunition and, of course, and endless supply of Egg and Bacon sandwiches, a bath/shower wagon and a Laundry unit.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
They could have been the best gunners in existence, and they'd still have been rolled up by superior infantry and artillery numbers. It's just how things go.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Hey, fuck that. We can't talk about what happened to those youngsters at Stalingrad or accusations of sexism will get thrown around.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
But don't they look pretty in their dress uniforms, though?
...dropping artillery shells on your own advancing infantry...
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
keeps the Infantry chappies on their toes, otherwise they'd just be fantasising about buxum young Nuns in Habits, hold-up stockings and heels. we're keeping them alive you know, by, err... killing a couple.
Cav look pretty in anything - Barbour must make a fortune out of them!
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Yeah fair enough, apologies for a bit of that.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Same here, I ended up acting like a prick as well.
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
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