Perhaps the French will fly the flag of Sark. Might make the people from the rest of France feel a bit peeved, though.
Argentina to fly the flag of Las Malvinas at London Olympics
- Thread starter Casually Red
- Start date
Perhaps the French will fly the flag of Sark. Might make the people from the rest of France feel a bit peeved, though.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
[quote="Giles, post: 10744973"
however if you squint a bit its possible to see them from atop the london eye
however if you squint a bit its possible to see them from atop the london eye
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
perhaps some of the british troops who committed identical atrocities against many thousands in kenya between 1953 and 1960 taught them how to do it . Quite possible . Ian Henderson certainly went on and taught these practices to the Bahrainis when he set up their apparatus . Honoured by the Queen too .
Over 150,000 people put in concentration camps for around 5 years without trial, held in absolutely appaling conditions suffering manutrition and disease. Around 25,000 put to death ,with around 1000 of those fatalities legalised British executions. And 80,000 tortured ,mutilated maimed and castrated , with horrific sexual abuse used against both male and female detainees . Including the use of broken glass bottles to inflict sexual injury .
Sounds like what the argentinian junta did was straight out of someones handbook .
So tell us what exactly makes the Argentinian junta morally inferior to British democrats - Labour and Conservative ? Id honestly be interested to hear you tell me what the difference is . Or does it not count when its against blacks or something ? Whats the difference between the 2? Bearing in mind yet again Britian were running about in someone elses territory many thousands of miles from the shores of the UK . Apparently yet again upholding the wishes of British colonial settlers to remain British many thousands of miles away from Britian .
Noble fucking cause that one and no mistake . Cant see why anyone would have a problem with the British army running about the 4 corners of the globe upholding some twats "right" to be British many thousands of miles away from Britian . In fairness though when they were sticking things up the natives arses over here during torture sessions while defending Ian Pailseys right to be British in Ireland they preferred to use blunt implements as opposed to glass bottles. Which i suppose could be considered progress .
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Blah Blah Blah evil british did this and this and this.Thanks for the history lesson I never realised the British empire had a history of repression before you came along to enlighten as all
.
Still see no reason why the Falkland islanders should become Argentinean.
.Still see no reason why the Falkland islanders should become Argentinean.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Horrific as these injustices are, I'm struggling to see how the Kelpers fit the mould of colonial oppressors. How many generations of Kelpers have to share in this collective guilt? The place was uninhabited; no native population was oppressed or exterminated. White Australia has more reason to express genuine shame and guilt, in this current generation, for disregarding the wishes and right to self-determination of their indigenous inhabitants than fifth generation Falklanders...
The UN "right to self-determination of inhabitants" thing, a cornerstone of the conditions needed to challenge and dismantle colonial regimes, also (ironically) applies to the Kelpers. Most British wouldn't want to settle there, nor would most middle-class Portenos. But the few who do actually live on the islands and make their living there have very clear ideas about where their allegiances lie, however deluded and strange that might feel to some.
Elsewhere on this thread, when the islander's wishes have been mentioned, I believe you disregarded that with a brief "fuck them". (At least, I think it was you, apologies if not). This situation has little bearing on the countless other examples of brutal British colonial history. To me, the Falklands is one of those strange hangover anomalies thrown up by European colonial history that other European countries also share (Ceuta and Spain, France and a whole bunch of places).
From the 1960's onwards, Britain and Argentina engaged fitfully towards some kind of resolution: The UK saw the natural end-point as some kind of sovereignty transfer. The Kelpers were the stumbling block to this. They didn't trust the Argentine representatives on the islands and didn't trust the UK politicians and civil servants who they felt were buttering them up for a "sell-out". If the UK had allowed the Kelpers full passports (rather than seeing them as a vanguard that would legally allow millions of Hong Kong Cantonese into Britain) then things might well have turned out differently.
I don't see how this "Top Trumps" of historical atrocities is that relevant.
I'm sure that the ancestors of a lot of Argentinians were party to acts of genocide, torture etc.
And more specifically, this thing about who did some evil thing FIRST is just silly: it does not mean that anyone else doing the same thing later on is somehow less culpable because they "learned it" from someone else.
Giles..
I'm sure that the ancestors of a lot of Argentinians were party to acts of genocide, torture etc.
And more specifically, this thing about who did some evil thing FIRST is just silly: it does not mean that anyone else doing the same thing later on is somehow less culpable because they "learned it" from someone else.
Giles..
rekil
to menny cranks
+ 
My post was for the benefit of anyone who might be interested in what the Argentinian left were up against and the kind of treatment they would've continued receiving for fuck knows how long had the invasion been a success. This new evidence is solid proof that the death flights took place and may lead to the opening up of Uruguayan archives and the discovery and identification of more victims of the dictatorship.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Oh FFS! you think I don't know all of this? here's a big clue for you; most posters in the P&P forums are far better read, educated, and informed, and far brighter than you (you really are thick as a brick), we knew all of this from way back, it's just it's downright tedious how you inevitably swing EVERYTHINg round to the same hobby horse, without even context or nuance, EVERY FUCKING TIME! For god's sake, change the fucking record, you obsessive inbred yokel, it's too tedious for words.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
One question; have you ever met a relative of a desparecido or a victim of the junta's torture cells? I have - quite a few, as it happens. NONE of them would draw that sick, spurious equivalence you have, take it from me.
And btw, BOTH sides committed tortures in the mau mau uprising.
And - for the umpteenth time - the republic of argentina never had a base worthy of the name in the Falklands. stop invsenting history to suit your sub-student swappie rhetoric
likesfish
You can't park here sir
It's the 21st centuary.
at least with vaguely whitish people things like self determination and human rights are quite important these days.
If you brown or Arabic still got a while to go
.
The islanders have been their over a hundred years not really bothering anyone.
They share no culture or language with Argentina if it was the evil Brits involved I doubt any of the posters would be taking Argentinas side.
at least with vaguely whitish people things like self determination and human rights are quite important these days.
If you brown or Arabic still got a while to go
.The islanders have been their over a hundred years not really bothering anyone.
They share no culture or language with Argentina if it was the evil Brits involved I doubt any of the posters would be taking Argentinas side.
coley
Well-Known Member
Rubbish, if any of your arguments had validity there would be a queue 10 miles long of various goverement representatives outside the UN laying claims to various bits of the globe, but most recognise the status quo (every bugger else is having a crack at cod latin) and the value of common sense, as no doubt will the Scottish when they finally have their referendum.The French occupied it first Spymaster not the British.
The French then sold it to the Spanish who then gave Argentina independence in doing so Argentina then gained the Falklands as any newly formed sovereign states should have the same borders that their preceding dependent area had before their independence 'uti possidetis juris'.
Game shot and match to trampie.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
[quote="Streathamite, post:
really , none of them would view someone who tortured and murdered tens of thousands of africans as in any manner equivalent to someone who did precisely the same thing to their relatives ? Why is the equivalence "sick" or "spurious" in your eyes ? Theres zero fucking difference . Britians castrated victims are seeking justice in London as we speak aganst a British establishment determined to deny them it .
The death toll on the British settler side was 38 in total vs around 26,000 dead ,80,000 tortured , maimed and mutilated on the other. And your the man whos chiding me about sick and spurious equivalence . Get off that colonial high horse for fucks sake.
Anyways I asked you to tell me whats was the moral difference between the argentine junta responsible for such crimes and a British democratic establishment of Conservative and Labour responsible for identical crimes and still being persued for them by their mutilated victims . Your plainly unable to give a differentiation beyond " I say..we're British dont you know..how dare you "
Righteous umbrage doesnt actually constitute a moral differentiation . Because there simply isnt one .
As far as im aware the SWP would be on the same side as yourself , in common with most of the British left. And at least the argentines have managed to progress as far as an actual republic.
really , none of them would view someone who tortured and murdered tens of thousands of africans as in any manner equivalent to someone who did precisely the same thing to their relatives ? Why is the equivalence "sick" or "spurious" in your eyes ? Theres zero fucking difference . Britians castrated victims are seeking justice in London as we speak aganst a British establishment determined to deny them it .
The death toll on the British settler side was 38 in total vs around 26,000 dead ,80,000 tortured , maimed and mutilated on the other. And your the man whos chiding me about sick and spurious equivalence . Get off that colonial high horse for fucks sake.
Anyways I asked you to tell me whats was the moral difference between the argentine junta responsible for such crimes and a British democratic establishment of Conservative and Labour responsible for identical crimes and still being persued for them by their mutilated victims . Your plainly unable to give a differentiation beyond " I say..we're British dont you know..how dare you "
Righteous umbrage doesnt actually constitute a moral differentiation . Because there simply isnt one .
As far as im aware the SWP would be on the same side as yourself , in common with most of the British left. And at least the argentines have managed to progress as far as an actual republic.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
No falklander ever tortured or oppressed a local it was empty land when they arrived.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
And dead sheep tell no tales.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
the Mau Mau did NOT just slaughter colonial settlers - that was just the tip of the iceberg. They slaughtered thousands of their fellow indigenous kenyans, and te uprising was as much a tribal conflict as any anti-colonial rebellion. No, I don't excuse the awful crimes of the British Empire - i oppose those just as much as the crimes ofthe junta (I'm just more intimately acquainted with Argentina than Kenya).
And no, i hate the SWP, especially for the empty anti-imperialist posturing (which is where they remind me of you).
And no, i hate the SWP, especially for the empty anti-imperialist posturing (which is where they remind me of you).
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
exactly!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I'd rather you didn't refer to Argentinians as 'spics' thanks, and there's no doubt this issue arouses genuine passions over there
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
WTF?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
if you mean the Argentine govt., no they didn't - it's about both antarctic oil, and the fact that popular opinion in Argentina on the subject remains as strong as ever - it just doesn't alter the fact the claim's a dud
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Whatever you think about the politics of Argentina, being offensively racist is really not the way to win people over.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
You should read what Dr Samuel Johnson says on the matter of the Falklands. You'd learn a lot. He was right then and he was right now.
Away from the racist stuff, and only kind of back to the OP:
"Argentinians to fly {etc}"
Is this actually true? As in going to happen? Or a bit over-egged.
(I'm going to fly the flag of mynydvka. Oh yes I am. Yes I really am. Except I'm not.)
So, will - as the post proclaims - the flag be flown? And if not, why not?
"Argentinians to fly {etc}"
Is this actually true? As in going to happen? Or a bit over-egged.
(I'm going to fly the flag of mynydvka. Oh yes I am. Yes I really am. Except I'm not.)
So, will - as the post proclaims - the flag be flown? And if not, why not?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Likesfish - you're referring to my relatives/in-laws as 'spics'. Not on.
Quite. They've suffered enough, one imagines.
More over-hyped rubbish from Argentina, it's probably just some stupid comment from somebody over there, picked up and exaggerated by the usual suspects in the British press. There's not a hope in hell that it would be allowed by the IOC.
Pointedly though (well, in my self aggrandising mind) the OP declared it as "being so".
CR, is this thing that's happening at the Olympics reaaaaly happening at the Olympics?
Or is it: Something that's happenining at the Olympics that's not happening at the Olympics? But is. In your head.
The depressing thing is that, if we come to Ireland (and why the fuck are we dodging this) there really is something to discuss. Fuck the flags that arent't ever going to be worn, to liberate an bunch of yokels ("fuck them" - your words).
How about Ireland?
There's a meaningful discussion there. I mean, not a kick-the-paddy-we're-British 1970s discussion. A grown up one. My reading of Irish history, is, tbh, abysmal (I read a bit, forget, read some more, forget) but at least it could be sensible discussion and the one that's true to your heart.
I think - admittedly in just the cosy world of urban - people might be more on your side than you expect. Even Spymaster might shut up.
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