Are we really going to sit by while they destroy the NHS?

[kalidarkone]

Yesterday there were 100 patients in A&E and 21 ambulances waiting outside, unable to get their patients in ......or pick up anyone else needing one.
So many people are going to die this winter because of the current situation.

 

[Sprocket.]

Speaking from recent experience over the last decade. I have had several CT scans and MRIs at private hospitals or at private facilities within NHS hospitals.
Recently at Sheffield especially as one of the major hospitals was having extensive work done on their radiography dept, including an additional CT scanner installed.
But while this was happening the other major hospital had a fire which put one of their scanners out of action for months. So the private sector profited greatly.
I am currently waiting for a date for my three monthly scan due the first week in February, I anticipate hearing a few days beforehand and possibly back at one of the private locations due to the backlog and time restraints.

 

[Sprocket.]

Yesterday there were 100 patients in A&E and 21 ambulances waiting outside, unable to get their patients in ......or pick up anyone else needing one.
So many people are going to die this winter because of the current situation.

This appalling situation has been building for years, services cut to the bone (no pun). Underfunding and staff leaving due to burn out.
I have nothing but the utmost praise for the staff at the three hospitals I regularly attend and it makes me both sad and livid to see what these wonderful people have to tolerate day in, day out.

 

[LDC]

As I have said before, funding is a big part of it for sure, but not the only complicated issue that's causing these problems.

 

[LDC]

There wouldn't be five-hour waits for ambulances if dickheads who are able to get to hospital on their own -- or who don't need to go to hospital at all -- stopped calling for them.

It's boring stuff I've said lots here and there tbh, but anyway...

What you is said is true, but without qualification is just patient blaming individualist stuff that leads nowhere helpful.

Very few (probably nobody really) calls an ambulance cos they're just a dickhead, it's a problem that has arisen for a mix of complicated long term social/economic/political reasons... isolated living situations, breakdown of the family, atomized previously together communities, people lacking basic health knowledge and self-care, worsening general mental health (especially anxiety, partly internet self-diagnosis fueled), poor education, lack of ability to access more appropriate care, etc etc.

So yes, people calling ambulances for a stubbed toe (or something similar) happens loads, but mostly it's not as simple as them being dickheads (although I have been known to roll my eyes and sigh exasperatedly on occasion...).

 

[ouirdeaux]

Very few (probably nobody really) calls an ambulance cos they're just a dickhead, it's a problem that has arisen for a mix of complicated long term social/economic/political reasons... isolated living situations, breakdown of the family, atomized previously together communities, people lacking basic health knowledge and self-care, worsening general mental health (especially anxiety, partly internet self-diagnosis fueled), poor education, lack of ability to access more appropriate care, etc etc.

True, but you could say the same of pretty much any sort of antisocial behaviour. Blaming the individual without addressing the cause is pointless, but we need a more effective way of dealing with the problem. London has a vastly disproportionate rate of ambulance callouts, even though it's far easier to make one's own way to a hospital in a city with a variety of transport options than it is in the back of beyond.

Also, if you're working in a hospital, you presumably only come into contact with those the crew have brought in (not talking about the patients who just rock up, obviously). Those who call for an ambulance in order to have a wank in front of paramedics, for example, are a sub-group who rarely get taken anywhere, apart from possibly to a cell for the night if they're worse than usual. If you can't call them dickheads, who merits the word?

 

[nottsgirl]

Looks like we’re not only going to sit by, we’re going to join in. Yes there are some ways people can be encouraged to take more responsibility for their health and collective resources but I really don’t think that’s the main issue here. And part of why it is, is other parts of the safety net being destroyed.

 

[ouirdeaux]

You're right that it's not the main issue. But it's all so depressing.

 

[Edie]

Looks like we’re not only going to sit by, we’re going to join in. Yes there are some ways people can be encouraged to take more responsibility for their health and collective resources but I really don’t think that’s the main issue here. And part of why it is, is other parts of the safety net being destroyed.

I think you’re agreeing with LynnDoyleCooper

 

[LDC]

True, but you could say the same of pretty much any sort of antisocial behaviour. Blaming the individual without addressing the cause is pointless, but we need a more effective way of dealing with the problem. London has a vastly disproportionate rate of ambulance callouts, even though it's far easier to make one's own way to a hospital in a city with a variety of transport options than it is in the back of beyond.

Also, if you're working in a hospital, you presumably only come into contact with those the crew have brought in (not talking about the patients who just rock up, obviously). Those who call for an ambulance in order to have a wank in front of paramedics, for example, are a sub-group who rarely get taken anywhere, apart from possibly to a cell for the night if they're worse than usual. If you can't call them dickheads, who merits the word?

I mean you can call them dickheads, feel free, but it doesn't fix anything does it? (And with that particular example 'dickhead' isn't really appropriate anyway.) And if that's all you do then actually it might just mean you're blaming individuals.

There's all sorts of reasons London has a higher rate of call-outs (assuming you're right, I've not looked for the stats), but is the reason London has a higher percentage of dickheads in it, or is it more complicated than that?

 

[8ball]

I mean you can call them dickheads, feel free, but it doesn't fix anything does it? (And with that particular example 'dickhead' isn't really appropriate anyway.) And if that's all you do then actually it might just mean you're blaming individuals.

There's all sorts of reasons London has a higher rate of call-outs (assuming you're right, I've not looked for the stats), but is the reason London has a higher percentage of dickheads in it, or is it more complicated than that?

Seems like a job for Occam’s razor…

 

[ouirdeaux]

It's immensely more complicated than that, of course. And even the figures are of limited use, as they don't distinguish between a 90-year-old in the arse end of Wallington and a 20-year-old literally across the street from a hospital. Ignore me, I'm just rambling.

 

[Shechemite]

There wouldn't be five-hour waits for ambulances if dickheads who are able to get to hospital on their own -- or who don't need to go to hospital at all -- stopped calling for them.

Relax, the asocials are being dealt with. Seek crisis care too often and you go to jail

Dad slams services after son's suicide

Oliver Cooper, 38, suffered from a number of complex mental health conditions and frequently asked for help

www.devonlive.com

 

[8ball]

Relax, the asocials are being dealt with. Seek crisis care too often and you go to jail

Dad slams services after son's suicide

Oliver Cooper, 38, suffered from a number of complex mental health conditions and frequently asked for help

www.devonlive.com

Yes, I’m sure that’s not misrepresenting anyone’s stance in the slightest…

 

[BristolEcho]

Yes, I’m sure that’s not misrepresenting anyone’s stance in the slightest…

I wasn't going to reply as think LynnDoyleCooper said everything, but I do find attacking individuals and labeling people dickheads to be unhelpful and it helps create an environment for shit like this:

STOPSIM

Mental Health Is Not A Crime

stopsim.co.uk

It's also the attitude that is putting people off contacting GP's and hospitals because they don't want to waste people's time.

 

[8ball]

It's also the attitude that is putting people off contacting GP's and hospitals because they don't want to waste people's time.

Any evidence that people with genuine emergency needs are put off from accessing healthcare because other people disapprove of cunts who call an ambulance due to a split condom or bruised finger?

 

[BristolEcho]

Any evidence that people with genuine emergency needs are put off from accessing healthcare because other people disapprove of cunts who call an ambulance due to a split condom or bruised finger?

I didn't necessarily say emergencies, however I know through my work that people do delay seeing GP's and going to hospital when they should because of the above attitude. Obviously that's not fully researched peer reviewed evidence, but I come into contact with lots of vulnerable people and quite often have to direct them towards other health services.

 

[8ball]

I didn't necessarily say emergencies, however I know through my work that people do delay seeing GP's and going to hospital when they should because of the above attitude. Obviously that's not fully researched peer reviewed evidence, but I come into contact with lots of vulnerable people and quite often have to direct them towards other health services.

I’m not sure what you mean by “above attitude” now. Seems there have always been people, many of them older, who “don’t want to bother the doctor” with stuff.
People need to know when certain services are needed and I agree that there is a balance to be struck, with an emphasis on people accessing necessary care. People also need to know that ambulances are for very serious situations and that there could be dire consequences for others if they, or the call handlers, are accessed frivolously.
And then, unfortunately, I think there are some people who just don’t give a shit.

 

[platinumsage]

It's all the fault of GPs, apparently.

For this reason, Javid apparently now wants to nationalise them.

 

[IC3D]

I'd say a lack of community nursing capacity and trained domiciliary carers means a lot of elderly get bluelighted as they are probably told to call 999 causing pressue on primary and ambulance services.
Call outs for hypos could be avoided just by training people in the community. Its more complex than that but it's all well and good saying treat people at home but means norhing without investment.

 

[Edie]

An experience of the new world order of phone/internet consultation: I work in the NHS, and I have RA. I get given a phone appointment between 9-1pm. Obviously I’m not going to take an entire morning off because of a ten minute phone appointment. So instead I go to work, not knowing when it’s going to be, and start the ward round. Get the call, have to take it standing in a patient toilet/shower room (because obviously there’s literally no other private space because the only private room- the relatives room- is in constant use).

Now my RA hasn’t been good of late, quite a bit of fatigue and joint pain I’ve been powering through. Plus my mums dying of this disease, so it’s an emotive issue. So I end up getting a bit upset in the effing toilet discussing steroid depots. I then have to go straight back into ward round (except I’m hiding typing this).

For all the gains of E-consultation (no travel, quicker, cheaper, triage etc) there’s much lost. And something lost is the patient having both the time and physical space to talk about and process illness and healthcare. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

 

[BristolEcho]

Absolutely. Someone I know also had issues with this recently and I felt it was pretty bad that GP:s are still not giving actual times for phone calls. (assuming this was a GP)

 

[Artaxerxes]

Ugh.

 

[Shechemite]

Taking responsibility!

 

[Sprocket.]

Ugh.

Fabulous, so by the time the patient realises they have a recurrence it will probably have metastasised and gone for a walk about through their lymph system. This either increases the cost of treatment or hastens the death of the patient.
Effective reduction of waiting lists.

 

[Ming]

Fabulous, so by the time the patient realises they have a recurrence it will probably have metastasised and gone for a walk about through their lymph system. This either increases the cost of treatment or hastens the death of the patient.
Effective reduction of waiting lists.

Well that’s how they think (as long as it doesn’t apply to them or their loved ones obviously). Cut costs so we can lower taxes on the wealthy. Surplus population, ‘let the bodies pile high’. We’re in the Caligula stage of the Tory party.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Well that’s how they think (as long as it doesn’t apply to them or their loved ones obviously). Cut costs so we can lower taxes on the wealthy. Surplus population, ‘let the bodies pile high’. We’re in the Caligula stage of the Tory party.

The precursor to the Holocaust was the Aktion T4 programme. I fear we're creeping slowly and inexorably towards that kind of scenario. Some Tories have openly said that disabled children don't deserve to live.

Aktion T4 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[ouirdeaux]

Some Tories have openly said that disabled children don't deserve to live.

Who has said what?

 

[Pickman's model]

Well that’s how they think (as long as it doesn’t apply to them or their loved ones obviously). Cut costs so we can lower taxes on the wealthy. Surplus population, ‘let the bodies pile high’. We’re in the Caligula stage of the Tory party.

here's looking forward to the claudius stage then.

 

[DaveCinzano]

We’re in the Caligula stage of the Tory party.

Question remains whether it's the Tinto Brass or Bob Guccione cut though