Arab Woman gives Muslims a Thrashing
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invisibleplanet
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What do you think this 'end times' stuff is? End of patriarchal tribalism?
Spion
I hear ya
Surely the 'dangerous shite' is the thick end of *any* religious wedge, no? Surely, once you start embracing unproven, unscientific beliefs then you can go where you like with it and what Fattboy believes is no more untrue than what any theist believes. Genuine question, btwfrogwoman said:
its revelation from Almighty God, if u dont believe it thats fine, everyone has 2make their own choices and decisions, ppl rubbish it because its not in harmony with their cultural conditioning and prejudices but if ur sincere u will at least take a closer look, none of us has perfect knowledge, we're always learning.
ignorance isnt not knowing, its not knowing and thinking u do.
prophecies that were made thru revelation 1400 years ago 2 desert bedouins but had 2 also be understood 2 future far more sophisticated and technologically advanced ppl can only be expressed in certain ways so that it can benefit both groups.
ignorance isnt not knowing, its not knowing and thinking u do.
prophecies that were made thru revelation 1400 years ago 2 desert bedouins but had 2 also be understood 2 future far more sophisticated and technologically advanced ppl can only be expressed in certain ways so that it can benefit both groups.
Disjecta Membra
cashing reality checks but cant even pay atention.
it's global equality,and a full scale anti-capitalist revolution
surely?
surely?
Structaural
in Chatsubo
fattboy said:
You've obviously decided a long time ago that you weren't going to think for yourself or deal with the continued discoveries of humanity. Do you not think it might be time to try, just to see? To blindly follow medieval literature seems stupid to me.
Structaural
in Chatsubo
fattboy said:
Let's have some then
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
No, it isn't. Putting 'a'- in front of a word negates it, means that the person has no belief, e.g. apolitical, meaning no political beliefs. Atheism - a-theism - means 'no gods'.
You really don't understand atheism do you? AFAIK no atheist believes we came from nothing, and ultimately neither science or religion can answer what caused the moment of creation (i.e. what created God/what caused the Big Bang, and what came before both of them), but science gives a considerably more convincing (and proven) view of how the universe has developed since that moment...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
fattboy said:
Yes, a belief is a belief well done. Now argue that all beliefs are religons as per your claim.
invisibleplanet
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Not unlike the importance that some people place in the medieval writings of Nostradamus.Structaural said:
Structaural
in Chatsubo
invisibleplanet said:
indeed
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Spion said:
No.
Believing in god, does not mean you have to abandon the God given gift of rationality.
And all beliefs are unproven to an extent, thats why they are beliefs. If you solely use science to base your worldview on that can also be very dangerous too
invisibleplanet
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I thought they were compiled from Hadith (oral tradition written down) - some of which were written by a man called Bukhari who collected various statements on his travels nearly 200 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad, some of which were written by other men, all long after the death of your Prophet. Please note, I am not anti-Hadith in relation to understanding Islamic history.fattboy said:
Who compiled the 'end times' list of signs?
Whoever compiled that list can't be a prophet according to Islam, because Islam says that Muhammad was the last Prophet. The links to the site(s) you gave verge on superstition. Half the prophecies listed have no reference to source and the other half are all drawn from Hadith. It is interesting to note the lack of specific Qu'ranic revelation on this subject.
Who is this Ahmad chap? He doesn't appear to hold women in the esteem which even Prophet Muhammed was said to have held women (who made great reforms of pre-Islamic traditions that held women/daughters as lesser citizens). He seems fearful of equal rights for women.
Where do you stand on the progress of reform in attitudes to women that was begun by Prophet Muhammed? Do you wish to revert back to a more primitive approach, or move forwards and remain progressive in the tradition you purport to claim as your own?
What is 'true' Islam - is it where everyone agrees on the basics, or is there much disagreement? I suspect the latter is true.
Spion
I hear ya
I think believing in god is both rational and irrational. It can in one sense be viewed as a rational human response to their surroundings in that it serves a function for people and for society. It is at the same time irrational in that is it a baseless, unscientific belief - and if you've got the freedom to basically pick and choose what you want to believe irrespective of evidence you can start believing all sorts of potentially dangerous nonsensefrogwoman said:
invisibleplanet said:
Correction: You got that idea from someone else and I know exactly who. (And unless you are fluent in Classical Arabic and other languages he makes notices about you can't read his work and understand it. )
No it isn't. It is what every individual has to seek for as long as he lives, which in fact is the most difficult jihad.
salaam.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Islamic eschatology
I don't actually know who compiled that list of end-times signs. Someone took time to compile it (the list) from the Hadith, but I can't find who compiled the list or when.
If the Hadith are not the written down oral tradition some 200 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, then how would you describe them? Are they (Hadith) revelations from G0D (which is what I thought the Qu'ran is described as) or are they stories written down about Prophet Muhammad nearly two centuries after his death?
Aldebaran said:
I don't actually know who compiled that list of end-times signs. Someone took time to compile it (the list) from the Hadith, but I can't find who compiled the list or when.
If the Hadith are not the written down oral tradition some 200 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, then how would you describe them? Are they (Hadith) revelations from G0D (which is what I thought the Qu'ran is described as) or are they stories written down about Prophet Muhammad nearly two centuries after his death?
My mistake. I thought you were alluding to Wansbrough and his ideas concerning the compilation of Al Qur'an.
The Hadith should be approached with great caution at all times. Too many people simply overlook that they are merely compilations of stories = words of humans and that human's memories aren't exactly the most reliable source for finding the truht.
They are however invaluable to Muslims and to historians, Muslim and non Muslim alike, as well.
(By the way, I'm not interested in websites with "lists of end of times".)
salaam.
The Hadith should be approached with great caution at all times. Too many people simply overlook that they are merely compilations of stories = words of humans and that human's memories aren't exactly the most reliable source for finding the truht.
They are however invaluable to Muslims and to historians, Muslim and non Muslim alike, as well.
(By the way, I'm not interested in websites with "lists of end of times".)
salaam.
invisibleplanet said:
i dunno who compiled the list either, but most r referenced, and anything by Bukhari and Muslim HAVE 2 be accepted by a muslim because the crireria they imposed on the hadiths they collected is so high, anyone in the chain of narration who was known 2 be of weak character or unreliable would mean the hadith would be unacceptable and not included, the collection of hadith is a detailed science and i dont have the knowledge or the time 2 be able 2 explain it, so in simple terms anything in Bukhari and Muslim is the guaranteed statements and actions of the Prophet pbuh, but the books of Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah and At-Tirmidhi and one or 2 others are also very reliable, tho not to the same extent.
those generations didnt have tvs or playstations or other things 2 take up their time and the arabs were known well 4 their wealth of literature and poetry, they could recite poems of amazing length and would meet annually in contests, so their ability 2 recite and remember statements and the like were far superior 2 ours.
my understanding is that the Prophet pbuh him forbade the writing of anything other than Qur'anic verses so that the 2 wouldnt be confused but dont quote me on that.
the hadiths fall in2 2 basic categories, hadith qudsi, which r the actual words of Allah transmitted 2 the Prophet pbuh, which he the n related and other hadith that detail the statements and actions of the Prophet pbuh that were narrated by his close companions and related the few generations up until the time they were recorded in books by the compilers of the ahadith.
invisibleplanet
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I am not talking to you in the quote you made of me in your last post, fattboy - I am talking to Aldebaran.
This is where I am talking to you: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6917889&postcount=258
This is where I am talking to you: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6917889&postcount=258
invisibleplanet said:
Imam Ahmed was a scholar, he collected hadiths.
He was a righteous man, i dunno where u get that conclusion from at all.
the companions understood Islam better than anyone alive 2day, they lived with the Prophet pbuh as the Revelation came down.
those who believe as they believed are rightly guided, innovations, cultural crap that has been brought in2 our religion such as subjugation of women has no place in Islam,
yeah i believe in progress but we have 2 go back 2 go 4ward here.
