I became a muslim last night

[cesare]

did I suggest they were?

No, you didn't. But they did.

I don't really have a problem with religionists until they start bombing and/or converting.

 

[revol68]

No, you didn't. But they did.

I don't really have a problem with religionists until they start bombing and/or converting.

aye but the problem is that if you actually take your religion seriously then you must be moved to try and convert people, I'd suggest you are a bastard of a person if you were convinced of a path to salvation yet made no attempts to win others over to it. Also as a christian it is your duty to do so.

Unfortunately those nice keep to them selves CoE christians and lapsed catholics are just sells out who have jettisoned the word of god in favour of an easy life, they are part time believers with a fine line in compartmentalisation. Much like we want war without casualties (on "our" side), coke without sugar, we want religion without zealots.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's respectful in my tradition. It's not a superstition.

if that's the case, what other words/names do you do that with?

m-m? d-d? f----r?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not in Bronze Age Canaan, that's for sure.

perhaps if you'd been in jericho when the walls fell.

 

[chainsaw cat]

(sorry to butt into the lofty conversation)

What, just snap your fingers, say some words and poof, you're a muslim? I hope either a)You really fuckin mean it or b)Are good at keeping secrets.

Is the OP a poof? I see your concern about keeping secrets.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[kyser_soze]

Could say the same about your so-called libertarianism - which is supposedly libertarian for you, but doesn't tolerate other peoples' freedom of thought, freedom of action, freedom to practice religion, etc.

If you only tolerate people who conform to your idea of libertarian, and judgmentally and aggressively lambast the freedoms which others embrace, then how are you a libertarian?

I suspect rather that revol is more concerned with religious practice and belief which condemn and causes pain to others, rather than focussing on the love. Only like most theists you interpret someone saying 'homophobia in religion is shit' for 'religion is shit'. So you're entire argument is based on a false premise.

Re: the Zizek article a page or so back...fun indeed. Interesting to note that he makes a very clear distinction of 'Western Buddhism' too (unlike you rev) from Buddhism as practiced in 'The East'.

 

[tangentlama]

Homophobia is shit. Revol didn't say 'homophobia in religion is shit', he said something more along the lines of 'how can you join a religion which promotes homophobia?' giving no thought to Maximillian Pings own liberal interpretation (i.e. Pings itijihad as he's now Muslim). This says to me that Revol is grouping the liberal (enlightened) adherents with the intractable fundamentalists.

All fundamentalists within Abrahamic religions say 'homophobia is wrong'.
Liberal adherents within each of these religions say 'we still love our sons and daughters, regardless of their homosexuality'

 

[butchersapron]

That's really really nice of them.

(You might want to change your second last line btw)

 

[ViolentPanda]

by 'g-d' i take it you mean yahweh.

if 'g-d' showed any love for you, surely s/he'd allow you to use their bloody name.

The "not naming her" schtick is actually as much a mark of respect to other Jews who may read her name and be offended by seeing one of her pseudonyms listed, as it is a matter of showing love.

HTH.

 

[ViolentPanda]

if that's the case, what other words/names do you do that with?

m-m? d-d? f----r?

We have an issue with vowels. Our archaic tongue doesn't really go for them, so correct old spelling would elide them anyway.
Tis why I prefer the beauty that is transliterated Yiddish.

 

[maximilian ping]

(sorry to butt into the lofty conversation)

What, just snap your fingers, say some words and poof, you're a muslim? I hope either a)You really fuckin mean it or b)Are good at keeping secrets.

neither a or b

the whole thing has been quite a head fuck, but i'm happy with what's happening. because my girlfriend is very close to her parents + we want to be together there is only one way forward - otherwise its a 'them' or 'me' thing. it's further complicated by the fact we have already pissed them off, we have a kid (who they love) and so for ages i've been a persona non grata, so its a way of healing all that. philosophically, my thinking is that becoming a muslim is, if i'm honest, a means to an end, but because my son and wife are muslim, and i want to be with them properly and learn about islam, it's a practical solution and not wholly insincere

 

[Crispy]

Bit like pretending to be catholic to get into the good state school then?

 

[revol68]

Homophobia is shit. Revol didn't say 'homophobia in religion is shit', he said something more along the lines of 'how can you join a religion which promotes homophobia?' giving no thought to Maximillian Pings own liberal interpretation (i.e. Pings itijihad as he's now Muslim). This says to me that Revol is grouping the liberal (enlightened) adherents with the intractable fundamentalists.

All fundamentalists within Abrahamic religions say 'homophobia is wrong'.
Liberal adherents within each of these religions say 'we still love our sons and daughters, regardless of their homosexuality'

You don't see how that is homophobic?

 

[butchersapron]

Here's one conversion ceremony:

 

[In Bloom]

Homophobia is shit. Revol didn't say 'homophobia in religion is shit', he said something more along the lines of 'how can you join a religion which promotes homophobia?' giving no thought to Maximillian Pings own liberal interpretation (i.e. Pings itijihad as he's now Muslim). This says to me that Revol is grouping the liberal (enlightened) adherents with the intractable fundamentalists.

All fundamentalists within Abrahamic religions say 'homophobia is wrong'.
Liberal adherents within each of these religions say 'we still love our sons and daughters, regardless of their homosexuality'

The issue the is that Abrahamic religions (I don't know about any of the others but I'd be surprised if they were any better) are deeply patriarchical and homophobic at their core, even if some of their modern adherents aren't particularly sexist or homophobic.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Pretty much. The only thing you have to do to be a Muslim is agree that "there is only one God and Mohammed is His prophet." I can't even do that.

I trip to Mecca would be a a laugh I imagine

No beer tho.

 

[8ball]

"there is only one God and Mohammed is His prophet." - does that mean you're counting him as Head Prophet, though. It's not very clear.

Cos a Muslim could also legitimately say 'there is only one God and Jesus is His prophet' iyswim . . .

 

[DotCommunist]

My religion is of great comfort to me

 

[8ball]

My religion is of great comfort to me

<Racking brains>

Where it that quote from?

 

[DotCommunist]

<Racking brains>

Where it that quote from?

Scum

 

[8ball]

Scum

I thought it was but it's not in that clip.

Unless I'm already too drunk to notice it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I've considered it, since my wife is nominally Muslim, as will be our son, and there are circumstances where my being nominally Christian might pose a problem. I was thinking "since it's all just nominal who gives a toss? None of us practice any religion anyway." But that's probably not the right attitude to go into these things with.

The things people do for pussy, eh?

 

[revol68]

The things people do for pussy, eh?

the things Phil would do, thank you very much.

 

[maximilian ping]

Bit like pretending to be catholic to get into the good state school then?

except the motivation is love, not one upmanship

 

[revol68]

except the motivation is love, not one upmanship

not too comment on your relationship but surely she should stand up to her parents more out of love for you.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

if you don't believe in it,then why convert? that's what i can't understand. A belief system is something that's quite personal and stuff. not something that can change with the wind. And only half jumping into it to please someone, is going against the whole thing IMO.

What irritates me is the patriarchal aspect of it. A woman will not be expected to convert, nominally or otherwise, to marry a muslim guy.

 

[Greebo]

Au contraire, although women aren't required to convert, they are expected to do so, and there is a huge amount of social pressure.

 

[Greebo]

To clarify, what I mean is that even if the Muslim bloke you date drinks alcohol, smokes, and hardly ever prays or goes to the mosque, he's unlikely to settle for you just refraining from alcohol & pork products, even if you are a devout "person of the book". I was asked to repeat the shahadda on several occasions on the grounds that "come on, it doesn't really mean anything" (I always refused).

If it didn't mean anything there was no point saying it, and if saying one tongue-twisting phrase in classical Arabic instantly converts you to a Muslim, I wasn't having any of it, and certainly not from somebody who was more or less non-practising (apart from not eating pork) except for obsessing about what I believed.

I hope the OP will find that his choice works out well for him.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

...and whatever puts revol68 into a froth of revolutionary spittle is always likely to be a good thing done for good reasons. He has the dogmatic zealotry about his brand of politics that puts me in mind of a swivel-eyed religious convert.