Apparently, Feminism is dead!!!

[nino_savatte]

Burning bras never happened. Trust Mumsnet to use that old myth as an introduction to their FeMEinism nonsense. Shabby.

 

[ViolentPanda]

*explodes from stupidity*

How's the virus?

 

[Arlarse]

Was the poster talking about "radical feminism", knobchops? They were attributing the attitude to feminism per se, and even radical feminisms didn't say "men are having great time", they mention the imbalance between gender roles and expectations.
None of it. The context of my reply was in the poster saying "have always known".
I'm assuming you're an arsehole who shouldn't presume to criticise others just because you don't understand shit.

You are now a fucking idiot who shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard without supervision.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are now a fucking idiot who shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard without supervision.

And you, the mighty Arlarse have declared this!

Unsurprising how many of your posts play the man rather than the ball.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Whoever put that survey together needs to check their privilege and possibly reach for the hemlock.

The thing that gets me is that, most likely, at least some of the respondents (and quite possibly the person who put the survey together) will have found themselves at the receiving end of some form of sexism but will have dismissed it as sexism, iyswim. For example I’m sure some of those women would have found themselves disadvantaged employment wise as a result of them becoming mothers, whether or not they personally made the choice to step away from their career. I’m sure a good percentage of them would have been subjected to unwanted sexual attention, to whatever severity, at some point, even if they didn’t interpret it as a sexist act. And given other (more scientifically rigorous) studies about body dissatisfaction, I’m sure that at least some of those women will have beat themselves up at some point over how they looked. At least there was a desire to stop airbrushing (and what is that but a feminist issue??)

So in regards to privilege, yes there is privilege for there not to be a perceived massively oppressive force or a personally repressive one. But, in at least some cases, I’d suspect there's also an internalisation of the patriarchal society which is being claimed to not be a problem. In a similar way, I bet there were housewives in the 50s who were pleased with their lot and wouldn't have considerd themselves oppressed at all...

 

[toggle]

Burning bras never happened. Trust Mumsnet to use that old myth as an introduction to their FeMEinism nonsense. Shabby.

i think after the initial incident, which wasn't burning bras, the myth got spread and there were some poeple burning bras because they thought that was what you were 'supposed to do'.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I'm a bit fazed by any attitude that assumes that because you don't feel oppressed, that you're not being oppressed, and that in that case no-one can be.

Yup. And I agree as a woman who, on some levels (i.e. fairly well paid career in a female dominated profession), is probably freer from oppression than most. I can still recognise the inequalities faced by others, in addition to those more subtle issues that permeates my own life on a regular basis, including my own cultural conditioning.

 

[Balbi]

How's the virus?

Burned it out with chili and water.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

i think after the initial incident, which wasn't burning bras, the myth got spread and there were some poeple burning bras because they thought that was what you were 'supposed to do'.

Actually I've got a few rather ouchy bras I'd be happy to burn.

 

[nino_savatte]

i think after the initial incident, which wasn't burning bras, the myth got spread and there were some poeple burning bras because they thought that was what you were 'supposed to do'.

Yep and since the 1970s when feminism made the headlines, there's been a concerted effort on the part of the media and certain political parties to smear feminists as and when the need arises. It's literally a false memory that's been inserted into the mass subconscious and people like those at Mumsnet repeat it without asking any questions of it, possibly because they believe the false memory to be real. They may as well be demanding their own bondage fwiw.

 

[toggle]

Actually I've got a few rather ouchy bras I'd be happy to burn.

same here. but i'd be a lot more ouchy without one.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yup. And I agree as a woman who, on some levels (i.e. fairly well paid career in a female dominated profession), is probably freer from oppression than most. I can still recognise the inequalities faced by others, in addition to those more subtle issues that permeates my own life on a regular basis, including my own cultural conditioning.

It's such a mad assumption, though. I remember when Lorna Fitzsimmons (head of the First Division Association way back when) came out with some schtick that was basically her saying "because I'm head of the union for upper-level Civil Servants, that proves that the Civil Service and trade unions aren't sexist". Loads of support from the liberal media, even though she would have known she was talking shite if she looked at the disparity in promotion for her membership.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Burned it out with chili and water.

At least you didn't have to resort to actual fire!

 

[revol68]

Yep and since the 1970s when feminism made the headlines, there's been a concerted effort on the part of the media and certain political parties to smear feminists as and when the need arises. It's literally a false memory that's been inserted into the mass subconscious and people like those at Mumsnet repeat it without asking any questions of it, possibly because they believe the false memory to be real. They may as well be demanding their own bondage fwiw.

It shouldn't be surprising that in the face of financial insecurity, the removable of social services and the grim reality of a "career" etc that many women take a rose tinted view of patriarchal relations in the past, of the male bread winner, the stable nuclear family.

 

[Arlarse]

And you, the mighty Arlarse have declared this!
Unsurprising how many of your posts play the man rather than the ball.

Really maybe you could count how many of my posts do that and report back like a real little trooper. Do you think you can manage that?

 

[equationgirl]

It shouldn't be surprising that in the face of financial insecurity, the removable of social services and the grim reality of a "career" etc that many women take a rose tinted view of patriarchal relations in the past, of the male bread winner, the stable nuclear family.

Hey, in my darkest hours when I'm having a relapse and have still had to go to work else there literally wouldn't be food on the table, having a husband to be the main breadwinner has never looked so appealing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Really maybe you could count how many of my posts do that and report back like a real little trooper. Do you think you can manage that?

Better things to do with my time, thanks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Actually I've got a few rather ouchy bras I'd be happy to burn.

Just as long as they're not synthetic fibres!

Won't somebody think of the environment.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hey, in my darkest hours when I'm having a relapse and have still had to go to work else there literally wouldn't be food on the table, having a husband to be the main breadwinner has never looked so appealing.

In that case, it's a pity that employment demographics have pretty much nudged that stereotype into touch!

 

[toggle]

It's such a mad assumption, though. I remember when Lorna Fitzsimmons (head of the First Division Association way back when) came out with some schtick that was basically her saying "because I'm head of the union for upper-level Civil Servants, that proves that the Civil Service and trade unions aren't sexist". Loads of support from the liberal media, even though she would have known she was talking shite if she looked at the disparity in promotion for her membership.

this is what twonk bloke tried to convince me of. any sign of female promotion should be taken as an indicator that institutional sexism was dead. but i think people want to believe this. they want to believe they aren't sexist, they want to believe they cn do it if they want to, not that they will do it if their face fits enough to be the token girl.

 

[Thora]

Burning bras never happened. Trust Mumsnet to use that old myth as an introduction to their FeMEinism nonsense. Shabby.

This survey was done by Netmums, not Mumsnet.

I think actually the results of a Mumsnet survey would have been quite different, as the two sites seem to have quite different users. And Mumsnet has a large feminism forum.

 

[toggle]

Hey, in my darkest hours when I'm having a relapse and have still had to go to work else there literally wouldn't be food on the table, having a husband to be the main breadwinner has never looked so appealing.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Hey, in my darkest hours when I'm having a relapse and have still had to go to work else there literally wouldn't be food on the table, having a husband to be the main breadwinner has never looked so appealing.

Given that I've been on short term contracts for the last 2.5 years (thankfully renewed ones so far), when the Crispy one and I have kids we'll almost certainly be forced into that unless I get something more stable. Which I have to say, won't be my choice. Despite what I said in my previous post about being relatively lucky regarding work from an oppression POV, it is an example of exactly how things change and become a bit more shit for women when kids enter the equation.

 

[revol68]

for every girl who wants a career and all that shite, there is a boy like me who just wants be kept by a rich women and indulged in my frivolous little interests.

 

[ViolentPanda]

this is what twonk bloke tried to convince me of. any sign of female promotion should be taken as an indicator that institutional sexism was dead.

In which case he doesn't know what "institutional sexism" is. There are female judges, but that doesn't mean the judiciary isn't still institutionally sexist. There are female Parliamentarians, but that doesn't mean that the practices of the members of the Commons and Lords aren't institutionally sexist. If institutional sexism were dead, we wouldn't forever see reminders that it's alive and kicking.

but i think people want to believe this. they want to believe they aren't sexist...

Often because it's easier than challenging your own thinking, or accepting that your opinions might be based on prejudices rather than fact.

...they want to believe they cn do it if they want to, not that they will do it if their face fits enough to be the token girl.

And "face fits" is often too close to the truth for comfort in some employment situations.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

for every girl who wants a career and all that shite, there is a boy like me who just wants be kept by a rich women and indulged in my frivolous little interests.

Looking back, I wish I'd done that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Given that I've been on short term contracts for the last 2.5 years (thankfully renewed ones so far), when the Crispy one and I have kids we'll almost certainly be forced into that unless I get something more stable. Which I have to say, won't be my choice. Despite what I said in my previous post about being relatively lucky regarding work from an oppression POV, it is an example of exactly how things change and become a bit more shit for women when kids enter the equation.

My last stint as a union rep, issues with female members getting disciplinary grief because of sprogs came second only to issues with female members being sexually-harrassed.

 

[Poot]

Given that I've been on short term contracts for the last 2.5 years (thankfully renewed ones so far), when the Crispy one and I have kids we'll almost certainly be forced into that unless I get something more stable. Which I have to say, won't be my choice. Despite what I said in my previous post about being relatively lucky regarding work from an oppression POV, it is an example of exactly how things change and become a bit more shit for women when kids enter the equation.

Feminism in working life is rife, especially when you have kids. My job is part time to fit in with the kids, which is great. However, some of my colleagues who are less experienced, less qualified and frequently come to me for help because it's quite a technical job in a male-dominated industry are 'technicians' whereas I am a 'secretary'. I very much doubt they get paid the same pittance that I do - they are men. But of course we have TOTALLY different jobs, because they are technicians and I am 'just' a secretary

Also, every fucking group email I receive begins with the word 'Gents' and every fucking letter starts 'Dear Sir' even when they know my name. Sorry, as you may have guessed, this has been irking me for some time. I know I'm having a total sense of humour failure but if one more person mistakes me for a receptionist they really might end up with some technical drawings and a selection of brightly coloured felt-tips up their arse.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Didn't particularly feel it was appropriate to "like" your post given you're sharing shitty experiences, but I did like this bit...

if one more person mistakes me for a receptionist they really might end up with some technical drawings and a selection of brightly coloured felt-tips up their arse.

 

[equationgirl]

Feminism in working life is rife, especially when you have kids. My job is part time to fit in with the kids, which is great. However, some of my colleagues who are less experienced, less qualified and frequently come to me for help because it's quite a technical job in a male-dominated industry are 'technicians' whereas I am a 'secretary'. I very much doubt they get paid the same pittance that I do - they are men. But of course we have TOTALLY different jobs, because they are technicians and I am 'just' a secretary

Also, every fucking group email I receive begins with the word 'Gents' and every fucking letter starts 'Dear Sir' even when they know my name. Sorry, as you may have guessed, this has been irking me for some time. I know I'm having a total sense of humour failure but if one more person mistakes me for a receptionist they really might end up with some technical drawings and a selection of brightly coloured felt-tips up their arse.

I get the 'Gents' thing in emails too. It grates, mainly because it's endemic laziness not to look at a list of names before writing a greeting. I usually gently point out their error, but I have been known to be a bit more forceful about the issue of it's the same person repeatedly doing it.

I get letter written to Ms or Mrs EG, even though I am neither and correct title is always displayed at the end of my emails.

Guess who fixes the photocopier too...