Apparently, Feminism is dead!!!

[Poot]

I think there's a lot of a younger generation that have completely fallen for the media protrayal of feminism as uppity women demanding to be in charge of men. Young lad in class last week was happily telling me that feminism was a cause of discrimination, gave one example of a woman in a position in an acedemic department as proof that women didn't face a glass celiling in employment, and didn't actually believe paygap existed. This is at the institution that was host to such delights as 'uni lad' whose assertions that men should rape for entertainment because women wouldn't report it, made national news. I was just astounded by how much he had bought into the perception that women asking for equality was wrong and how much some of the younger women in the class went along with it.

I want to weep when I hear this. I swear I have noticed a huge step backwards recently and this absolutely illustrates it. When I was a student 20 years ago, I can't imagine anyone saying anything like this. Have we moved on? Have we? I don't think so.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

Feminism's greatest failing was in assuming that men have a great time most of the time.

More middle class women then gained the opportunity to discover what working class women had always known: that life in the workplace is usually as stultifying and hopeless as life confined to the home.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

I want to weep when I hear this. I swear I have noticed a huge step backwards recently and this absolutely illustrates it. When I was a student 20 years ago, I can't imagine anyone saying anything like this. Have we moved on? Have we? I don't think so.

What gives you the impression that things always 'move on?'

 

[toggle]

I want to weep when I hear this. I swear I have noticed a huge step backwards recently and this absolutely illustrates it. When I was a student 20 years ago, I can't imagine anyone saying anything like this. Have we moved on? Have we? I don't think so.

he's doing a masters, so apparently was smart enough to get a half decent first degree, in history. but still fell for this shite.

 

[toggle]

What gives you the impression that things always 'move on?'

i wish you would move on.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Do you know someone called LLETSA, SlaveofSolitude?

 

[sihhi]

I can sort of understand what they're saying. Re: the drive to completely obliterate stay at home parenting completely unless you're very rich.
Once upon a time one wage was enough for a household to live on, now both parties struggle working fulltime... The relentless attacks on single mums/ benefits etc now there is no culture that staying home with kids is actually even a job at all, unless you're being paid to look after someone else's

When was this 'once upon a time'? Not disagreeing with you, btw.

I don't see a drive to obliterate stay at home parenting, instead a generalised drive to reduce the social wage (socialised childcare) and real incomes. As well as some women being forced into work unfairly like you mention, some are being forced back into domestic labour and drudgery due to zero childcare and little marginal income benefit once costs are taken into account and the male partner (fairly uniformly) still has higher-paying or more chance at higher paying employment.

 

[equationgirl]

Mostly, yes. Most men too.

So you came onto this forum to say what exactly?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

That netmum's research is hideous.

There's about 20 things I could rip into, but what really got me was how it was identified that women have too much pressure on them now to be perfect in all domains - yet this seemed to be linked to feminism, rather than seen as being a reason why feminism is still much needed. It also seems particuarly sad/infuriating given the recent stories of Amanda Todd, research that eating disorders are on the increase, and increasing reports of sexist group behaviours at university freshers week (including "dress as a rapist" parties if memory serves correctly). Fucks sake. We're stepping back and at least some women seem to be calling for it

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

Do you know someone called LLETSA, SlaveofSolitude?

Somebody called what? Is that even a name?

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

So you came onto this forum to say what exactly?

To say what I've said, which is self-explanatory.

 

[equationgirl]

To say what I've said, which is self-explanatory.

What, that people are vacuous with worthless opinions?

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

i wish you would move on.

But what does give peple the impression that things always 'move on'? I suppose they do in a sense, but not always, or even usually, for the better.

 

[equationgirl]

Feminism's greatest failing was in assuming that men have a great time most of the time.

More middle cllass women then gained the opportunity to discover what working class women had always known: that life in the workplace is usually as stultifying and hopeless as life confined to the home.

Feminism never assumed that 'men have a great time' to the best of my knowledge.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

What, that people are vacuous with worthless opinions?

Yes. Mostly. Is that not a valid point of view?

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

Feminism never assumed that 'men have a great time' to the best of my knowledge.

Good.

 

[_angel_]

When was this 'once upon a time'? Not disagreeing with you, btw.

I don't see a drive to obliterate stay at home parenting, instead a generalised drive to reduce the social wage (socialised childcare) and real incomes. As well as some women being forced into work unfairly like you mention, some are being forced back into domestic labour and drudgery due to zero childcare and little marginal income benefit once costs are taken into account and the male partner (fairly uniformly) still has higher-paying or more chance at higher paying employment.

I was just thinking of a post someone made on a thread ages ago about someone's relative who left school at 14 (?) got a factory job and the whole family could pay rent on the home on the back of that.
(Back turn of the century??) Hardly a golden era for motherhood I'm sure, more the point a single wage could maintain a family.
Labour did make a big onslaught into getting women into work (ie no stay at home and help the family) What they failed to realise is where are the carers going to come from and how much is it costing.
Honestly, obsessed doesn't cover it.

 

[equationgirl]

Yes. Mostly. Is that not a valid point of view?

I find it strange that if you hold that viewpoint you would bother to join a forum known for its opinions, and would especially only join to contribute about a discussion on feminism, an opinionated subject.

 

[toggle]

Feminism never assumed that 'men have a great time' to the best of my knowledge.

exactly.

 

[equationgirl]

Good.

What's your point? You're now agreeing with me?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Feminism never assumed that 'men have a great time' to the best of my knowledge.

No, although certain men who also fall into other priviledged camps, for example most of our current and predominantly white, male, millionaire cabinet, seem to be having a party.

 

[toggle]

What's your point? You're now agreeing with me?

don't think it has a point, other than being a complete twunt

 

[equationgirl]

No, although certain men who also fall into other priviledged camps, for example most of our current and predominantly white, male, millionaire cabinet, seem to be having a party.

A never-ending party at that.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

I was just thinking of a post someone made on a thread ages ago about someone's relative who left school at 14 (?) got a factory job and the whole family could pay rent on the home on the back of that.
(Back turn of the century??) Hardly a golden era for motherhood I'm sure, more the point a single wage could maintain a family.
Labour did make a big onslaught into getting women into work (ie no stay at home and help the family) What they failed to realise is where are the carers going to come from and how much is it costing.
Honestly, obsessed doesn't cover it.

My dad's mother got bysinosis (sp.) doing twelve hour shifts in the mills for most of her life.

A single wage was never enough for the working class.

 

[_angel_]

My dad's mother got bysinosis (sp.) doing twelve hour shifts in the mills for most of her life.

A single wage was never enough for the working class.

Course the conditions were shit. After seeing that doc about service, I can still see how it would still have been more appealing than that. Some choice though.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Feminism's greatest failing was in assuming that men have a great time most of the time.

.

By that reasoning mens' great failing was to buy into and perpetuate hegemonic masculinity, which meant women felt/feel the need to fight for equality.

 

[Riklet]

Nietzsch-mums is dead.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

What's your point? You're now agreeing with me?

The point: that maybe you're right and that most feminists didn't think men have a great time most of the time.

 

[toggle]

No, although certain men who also fall into other priviledged camps, for example most of our current and predominantly white, male, millionaire cabinet, seem to be having a party.

suppose it depends how class conscious you think feminism is. my assertion would be 'not nearly enough', but in most circles, class is another dirty word. pretend there is no such thing as a working poor and anyone whoe opinion 'matters' is middle class.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

By that reasoning mens' great failing was to buy into and perpetuate hegemonic masculinity, which meant women felt/feel the need to fight for equality.

I think you'll find that most men (and most women) didn't even think about any of it. As with anything else, the self-important chatterers drove things on.