Apparently, Feminism is dead!!!

[revol68]

What would would mumsnet know about feminism, sure they've already shown their willingness to collaborate with patriarchy and the colonialisation of their bodies.

Children and the family are nothing more than a means of tying women to parochial idiocy and reproducing atomised social relations.

Smash Mums!

 

[toggle]

That's not simple "their choice", those "marriages" are entered into for the income security they provide. That's economic coercion. Who has ever attacked them personally? Feminism has never attacked 'wives' personally. It never attacked Miss USA personally etc etc.

i've seen people attacking them on a personal level. feminism may not personally attack anyone, but some people claiming to be feminists will.

 

[emanymton]

an acceptable act for a feminist is tbh, whatever the fuck she wants to do. it's forced activities we should focus on. not things a woman chooseds to do. an attitude of 'you're letiing the side down' by choosing to wear what you choose to wear, as one example, is what drives young women away in some cases.

that isn't to say i think every choice is a feminist choice. i've chatted on the net to women who claim to have chosen to enter into marriages where they are submissive to their husbands. that is their choice, but ti's a long way from being feminist. but we need to explore why they have felt the need to make these dicisions rather than attack them personally.

well yes it was the only bit I had really looked at when I first posted because it annoyed me simply by being there. But I was really shocked to see they put both highlights and prostitution on the same list.
There is so much wrong with the whole thing I truly don't know where to start.

 

[toggle]

not to mention the massively selevtive sample. netmum readers. yes,. those who are probably parents of fairly young children. hardly supprising childcare issues are high on the agenda. but not really as relavent to other groups of women.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Smash Mums!

Great slogan!

 

[Wilf]

The username is also a giveaway. He's a Hamilton fan.
.

Oh, Patrick Hamilton, I've just spent 30 seconds trying to make links to Scottish lower league football. (((( beerfog ))))

 

[sihhi]

i've seen people attacking them on a personal level. feminism may not personally attack anyone, but some people claiming to be feminists will.

OK, I'll take your word for it. But this is leftist people attacking mothers on an individual basis simply for looking after their children, right?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

not to mention the massively selevtive sample. netmum readers. yes,. those who are probably parents of fairly young children. hardly supprising childcare issues are high on the agenda. but not really as relavent to other groups of women.

They should sample urban

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Oh, Patrick Hamilton

We've talked about liking that particular book before (The Slaves of Solitude).

 

[Poot]

By taking choices away from women, you take choices away from women. That's pretty much the size of it. By criticising, underpaying, undervaluing, eroding self esteem, questioning choices, marginalising, preventing justice and disrespecting them, you take women's choices away. You have to keep your fucking eyes open to this - it can be very subtle. Being a mum may change your priorities but it shouldn't change your ideals with regard to equality - unless you want your daughters to grow up with no choices.

 

[sihhi]

Here is some more media comment about it.

This is Guardian neo-feminist Morwenna Ferrier being kind to feminists for their own good in Grazia magazine, the same firm also publishes Bella, Take a Break, TVQuick/TVChoice, Q, Kerrang! amongst others.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/morwennaferrier


" A lot of what is written by traditional ‘feminists’ leaves me feeling so angry I want to tug on their armpit hair."

http://www.graziadaily.co.uk/conver...eminism-rules--ok-err--or-not-apparently-.htm

It's interesting, tells you something about the new generation of British journalists on liberal newspapers, 'negotiating the aftermath'.

"They’re usually the aggressive types who dictate the rules that you must abide by to be a part of the posse. Don’t shave your legs, don’t even think about waxing your pubes and, for god’s sake, don’t settle down and have children before you’ve bagged the top job – preferably from under a man’s feet. The idea that a hierarchy appears to exist in modern feminism (which it does) mocks the very essence of the cause. And it’s pretty annoying.

What they don’t realise is that there was a time when feminists needed to be aggressive; needed to act like men in order to equal them. But, to a great extent, it worked. So for me and my generation, feminism isn’t about fighting the battle but negotiating the aftermath.
We still want equal pay, an end to gender discrimination and sexism – we do. But for us sexism is less aggressive than it was. The men we’ve grown up around think of women as their equal - it’s all a normal part of the world we know. Think of us as neo-feminists.
In our world, men like shopping and buy their own exfoliator. In every relationship I’ve been in, my boyfriends have been verging on being higher maintenance than me in the grooming stakes. And cooking, and cleaning, come to mention it. They want to settle down and they’re not afraid to say it, and they don’t mind not being the boss."

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's not just the media ( although it mostly is), I'm noticing some very archaic attitudes from all over the place of late. It's almost as though a recession gives carte Blanche in some quarters to treat women like second class citizens.

And because sexism is probably the most deeply-rooted issue after class, it's easier for business and the media to push a narrative where sexism can be seen as more acceptable than racism, ageism or ableism, for example.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The "FeMEnism" thing makes me want to smash a large amount of all the things.

I just read your post while "Smash It Up" by The Damned was playing. It's an omen!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Netmums 'survey' is a vile and sickening media exercise.

'Use a nanny to care for her kids' ... 'respected and supported'.
Kids who've had their mothers work as nannies and cleaners will never respect and support it.

'Be a stay at home mum baking cupcakes' - what kind of nonsense stereotype is this?
23% say it's acceptable to 'marry for money' (husband as lord and master) and 63% say 'topless modelling' (sexualised degradation for money) is acceptable.
69% believe the major task is the reinstatement of the value of motherhood? Er, what?

'We've got the choice to have a career, but most of us have no choice' ... Again what?
And that's the fault of feminism, apparently 'a downside to its success'.

Apparently only 8% of 20-24 year olds regard themselves as feminists, according to Netmums. Any examination of the 20-24 year olds on netmums? No.

feMEnism. ME. The 'survey' is an attempt to attract advertising revenue from advertisers to their website. These are entrepreneur people making choices. Middle-class, anti-woman and anti-feminist.
Its research (sample and questions alike) is bogus and no newspaper should be accepting any of its conclusions or research as a starting off point for anything.

I've just read all that, and I personally feel like, in the context of the above, "the personal is political" has become "the political is personal", i.e. not something the respondents want to engage with collectively.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Here is some more media comment about it.

This is Guardian neo-feminist Morwenna Ferrier being kind to feminists for their own good in Grazia magazine, the same firm also publishes Bella, Take a Break, TVQuick/TVChoice, Q, Kerrang! amongst others.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/morwennaferrier


" A lot of what is written by traditional ‘feminists’ leaves me feeling so angry I want to tug on their armpit hair."

http://www.graziadaily.co.uk/conver...eminism-rules--ok-err--or-not-apparently-.htm

It's interesting, tells you something about the new generation of British journalists on liberal newspapers, 'negotiating the aftermath'.

"They’re usually the aggressive types who dictate the rules that you must abide by to be a part of the posse. Don’t shave your legs, don’t even think about waxing your pubes and, for god’s sake, don’t settle down and have children before you’ve bagged the top job – preferably from under a man’s feet. The idea that a hierarchy appears to exist in modern feminism (which it does) mocks the very essence of the cause. And it’s pretty annoying.

What they don’t realise is that there was a time when feminists needed to be aggressive; needed to act like men in order to equal them. But, to a great extent, it worked. So for me and my generation, feminism isn’t about fighting the battle but negotiating the aftermath.
We still want equal pay, an end to gender discrimination and sexism – we do. But for us sexism is less aggressive than it was. The men we’ve grown up around think of women as their equal - it’s all a normal part of the world we know. Think of us as neo-feminists.
In our world, men like shopping and buy their own exfoliator. In every relationship I’ve been in, my boyfriends have been verging on being higher maintenance than me in the grooming stakes. And cooking, and cleaning, come to mention it. They want to settle down and they’re not afraid to say it, and they don’t mind not being the boss."

So Ms Ferrier's stance is basically "because I go out with somewhat vain but liberal boys who are happy to do cook a coq au vin, and because I am happy to go along with certain norms of conventional attractiveness, then there are NO more problems out there, kthxbai feminists whose work allowed me to work for writing publications starting with G".

Or more succinctly, "because I don't feel oppressed no-one else is".

(please note that I am not opposing her choices just her rather (IMO selfish) logic )

 

[ViolentPanda]

Feminism's greatest failing was in assuming that men have a great time most of the time.

I can't think of a single mode of feminism that made such an assumption.
The fact that men on the whole got a better deal than women in employment, in law and as social beings is historically-indisputable.

More middle class women then gained the opportunity to discover what working class women had always known: that life in the workplace is usually as stultifying and hopeless as life confined to the home.

Hmm. Until the imposition of the concept of the "nuclear family", many working-class women weren't "confined to the home".

 

[ViolentPanda]

he's doing a masters, so apparently was smart enough to get a half decent first degree, in history. but still fell for this shite.

Just makes me wonder how he got a half-decent first degree when he's obviously a stranger to reading different sources and then achieving a synthesis of those sources.

 

[8ball]

I guess the change to calling this nonsense idea feMEnism could be a good thing if it helps to distinguish feminism from the capitalist co-opting of certain ideas in order to shift product.

I love the idea that everything would be so great for women if there was equal representation in 'top boardroom jobs'.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They'll think what the dominant culture tells them to think, just like everybody else.

No, you're definitely not LLETSA, definitely not.

 

[sihhi]

So Ms Ferrier's stance is basically "because I go out with somewhat vain but liberal boys who are happy to do cook a coq au vin, and because I am happy to go along with certain norms of conventional attractiveness, then there are NO more problems out there, kthxbai feminists whose work allowed me to work for writing publications starting with G".

Or more succinctly, "because I don't feel oppressed no-one else is".

(please note that I am not opposing her choices just her rather (IMO selfish) logic )

I agree. She does identify with feminism, her neo-feminism - a liberal form of feminism. That's what liberalism does to things - makes them rubbish and self-centred.

 

[8ball]

I agree. She does identify with feminism, her neo-feminism - a liberal form of feminism. That's what liberalism does to things - makes them rubbish and self-centred.

By 'liberalism' do you mean 'capitalism'?

 

[Arlarse]

I can't think of a single mode of feminism that made such an assumption.
The fact that men on the whole got a better deal than women in employment, in law and as social beings is historically-indisputable.

Hmm. Until the imposition of the concept of the "nuclear family", many working-class women weren't "confined to the home".

Radical feminism certainly did along with a shitload of other rubbish that sought to identify men as the enemy. Don't bother asking me for sources go find them yourself Mr know it all

What part of working class women have always known did you miss?

I'm assuming you're an old man with some memory problems. Even so you shouldn't presume to criticise others just because you can't remember shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i've seen people attacking them on a personal level. feminism may not personally attack anyone, but some people claiming to be feminists will.

Yep, there are always some people in any "interest group" or adherents to any ideology who are exclusionary and/or elitist.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Radical feminism certainly did along with a shitload of other rubbish that sought to identify men as the enemy. Don't bother asking me for sources go find them yourself Mr know it all

Was the poster talking about "radical feminism", knobchops? They were attributing the attitude to feminism per se, and even radical feminisms didn't say "men are having great time", they mention the imbalance between gender roles and expectations.

What part of working class women have always known did you miss?

None of it. The context of my reply was in the poster saying "have always known".

I'm assuming you're an old man with some memory problems. Even so you shouldn't presume to criticise others just because you can't remember shit.

I'm assuming you're an arsehole who shouldn't presume to criticise others just because you don't understand shit.

 

[Balbi]

Whoever put that survey together needs to check their privilege and possibly reach for the hemlock.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So Ms Ferrier's stance is basically "because I go out with somewhat vain but liberal boys who are happy to do cook a coq au vin, and because I am happy to go along with certain norms of conventional attractiveness, then there are NO more problems out there, kthxbai feminists whose work allowed me to work for writing publications starting with G".

Or more succinctly, "because I don't feel oppressed no-one else is".

(please note that I am not opposing her choices just her rather (IMO selfish) logic )

I'm a bit fazed by any attitude that assumes that because you don't feel oppressed, that you're not being oppressed, and that in that case no-one can be.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whoever put that survey together needs to check their privilege and possibly reach for the hemlock.

Why grant them a Socratic end?

 

[Balbi]

Im a whimsical capricious middle class white male who enjoys irony as much as my privilege lends me oppressive nature.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Im a whimsical capricious middle class white male who enjoys irony as much as my privilege lends me oppressive nature.

Dude, check your privilege!

 

[Balbi]

*explodes from stupidity*