Apparently, Feminism is dead!!!

[sihhi]

The Observer interviews are pretty dreary too.

This is the 'left-wing' trade union full-timer GMB's National Chief for its NHS sector: 'I've been fortunate. I've been to Haiti and I've seen first-hand how women are oppressed in the 21st century in the workplaces. I met a group of fantastic women in Sierra Leone at the first ever women's labour conference that they managed to organise after a decade of absolutely awful stuff, and those women said: "The only people who are going to be in charge of our destiny is us." The point that Melissa was making about the sisterhood is absolutely right. Because along the way we've moved in to different groups' internal discussion about right, left and centre and all the rest of it, rather than globally trying to eradicate injustice and have dignity.'

'globally trying to eradicate injustice and have dignity' means you shouldn't have 'internal discussion about right, left and centre'.

The rightist journalist says with the current situation "that's no good for men, because they are becoming emasculated."
The rightist journalist defending women: "if you burden employers with so much – very well-meaning – legislation designed to boost women, you are going to end up with some employers saying "I'm not going to employ a woman" because it's too much trouble."

The figure from UK Feminista is on point. But it's troubling to find out that her paid job is as
'Fiona Ranford, Grassroots Activism Manager at UK Feminista'. WTF?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

More broadly I would call myself a moderate feminist, at least since my mid 20s. I do recognise that patriarchy can often be negative for men as well as women. I support women's individual choices to able to choose a more traditional lifestyle if they choose to do so, although I may be curious and gently challenging about what influences led to those decision.

However, if this goes on I am going to get to the stage of telling other women they're completely wrong.

That comment about mothers thinking their daughters "would never know a world with inequality" really got me as well. Certain inequalities may be either closing or at least be less apparent, but there's a whole host of other inequalities getting worse. And if younger female adults are already having these sorts of views of feminism, what on earth are those daughters going to think when they grow up?

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

And if younger female adults are already having these sorts of views of feminism, what on earth are those daughters going to think when they grow up?

They'll think what the dominant culture tells them to think, just like everybody else.

 

[sihhi]

I was just thinking of a post someone made on a thread ages ago about someone's relative who left school at 14 (?) got a factory job and the whole family could pay rent on the home on the back of that.
(Back turn of the century??) Hardly a golden era for motherhood I'm sure, more the point a single wage could maintain a family.
Labour did make a big onslaught into getting women into work (ie no stay at home and help the family) What they failed to realise is where are the carers going to come from and how much is it costing.
Honestly, obsessed doesn't cover it.

I don't think it's true that a single wage was enough - there was severe extreme poverty amongst families with fathers in work. It depends on the job and the social conditions. If you have a male with a skilled craft that is in demand and your family is lucky not to ever fall ill, then maybe you might survive at the turn of the century. If not you're in trouble. My family's background is not Britain, and at the turn of the century anywhere else a single wage was never ever enough.

I'd say Labour didn't make enough of an onslaught - they let the women get attacked in the workplace because, as a capitalist party they profited from it. Grunwick's being the most important battle.
They were never committed to the socialisation of childcare and the abolition, as a concept, of the nuclear family.

 

[equationgirl]

They'll think what the dominant culture tells them to think, just like everybody else.

You seem to be under the impression we're all mindless drones regardless of gender.

 

[_angel_]

I don't think it's true that a single wage was enough - there was severe extreme poverty amongst families with fathers in work. It depends on the job and the social conditions. If you have a male with a skilled craft that is in demand and your family is lucky not to ever fall ill, then maybe you might survive at the turn of the century. If not you're in trouble. My family's background is not Britain, and at the turn of the century anywhere else a single wage was never ever enough.

I'd say Labour didn't make enough of an onslaught - they let the women get attacked in the workplace because, as a capitalist party they profited from it. Grunwick's being the most important battle.
They were never committed to the socialisation of childcare and the abolition, as a concept, of the nuclear family.

I'm sure you're right about a single wage not being "enough" but the proportions of what used to be acceptable for housing out of overall income was about 25% as a rule of thumb. That's dramatically altered now.
I wish I could remember what exact year/ era the person who made this quote was. Or what the thread was...

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

You seem to be under the impression we're all mindless drones regardless of gender.

Why? Don't you need a mind to swallow wholesale what the dominant culture tells you to swallow wholesale?

 

[Wilf]

Do you know someone called LLETSA, SlaveofSolitude?

Good call. Just about the most existential marvin-the-paranoid-androidism you can pack into a username.

 

[equationgirl]

Why? Don't you need a mind to swallow wholesale what the dominant culture tells you to swallow wholesale?

Because what you're peddling is that we don't think for ourselves, that we're 'swallowing wholesale what the dominant culture tells us to'.

And that's bullshit, frankly.

 

[sihhi]

I'm sure you're right about a single wage not being "enough" but the proportions of what used to be acceptable for housing out of overall income was about 25% as a rule of thumb. That's dramatically altered now.
I wish I could remember what exact year/ era the person who made this quote was. Or what the thread was...

To encourage the self-financing of housing now there is a mortgage system, which was not the norm back then.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Because what you're peddling is that we don't think for ourselves, that we're 'swallowing wholesale what the dominant culture tells us to'.

And that's bullshit, frankly.

And one would assume that, by implication, the only person capable of not doing that is SlaveofSolitude.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Or LLETSA.

 

[sihhi]

And one would assume that, by implication, the only person capable of not doing that is SlaveofSolitude.

No SlaveofSolitude because he/she is a slave of solitude, is aware of the fact that they're doing this, which makes things OK, or not OK. Take your pick. 'Doesn't matter anyhow'

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

Because what you're peddling is that we don't think for ourselves, that we're 'swallowing wholesale what the dominant culture tells us to'.

And that's bullshit, frankly.

Not everybody. I don't, for example, but most people I know or encounter do to one degree or another.

Just look at these boards, full as they are of self-styled revolutionaries and rebels, and yet every commonplace notion and cliche of the time is regurgitated constantly.

 

[Wilf]

If feminism's dead, how are we to understand the Savile thing? 'Steady on Jim, best if you wait till they're a bit older you cheeky monkey'! 'Oooh, the Beeb! There was all sorts of stuff going on in the Top of the Pops Dressing Rooms. Take 'em back to your caravan Mr Shellsuit!'

 

[Vintage Paw]

Not everybody. I don't, for example, but most people I know or encounter do to one degree or another.

Just look at these boards, full as they are of self-styled revolutionaries and rebels, and yet every commonplace notion and cliche of the time is regurgitated constantly.

It must be really fucking awesome being you.

 

[Wilf]

Just look at these boards, full as they are of self-styled revolutionaries and rebels, and yet every commonplace notion and cliche of the time is regurgitated constantly.

When did you develop this view of urban? Over the last hour when most of your postings on the site were made?

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

It must be really fucking awesome being you.

It's really shit. Always has been.

But what can you do?

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

When did you develop this view of urban? Over the last hour when most of your postings on the site were made?

Long been a reader.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Long been a reader.

Looks like we've got ourselves a reader.

 

[_angel_]

It's really shit. Always has been.

But what can you do?

Cheer up love its a nice sunny day.

 

[SlaveofSolitude]

Cheer up love its a nice sunny day.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Wilf]

Looks like we've got ourselves a reader.

Like one of those flowers in the desert that blooms every 10 years. Take heed, SoS is blooming!

Oh, and yeah, dubversion, biscuits and something or other. What are my manners like?

 

[toggle]

It's really shit. Always has been.

But what can you do?

well, you can fuck off and take your misery and shit somewhere else. then the rest of us can have a slightly more constructive discussion.

 

[8115]

Netmums needs some free publicity.

 

[emanymton]

Netmums 'survey' is a vile and sickening media exercise.

'Use a nanny to care for her kids' ... 'respected and supported'.
Kids who've had their mothers work as nannies and cleaners will never respect and support it.

'Be a stay at home mum baking cupcakes' - what kind of nonsense stereotype is this?
23% say it's acceptable to 'marry for money' (husband as lord and master) and 63% say 'topless modelling' (sexualised degradation for money) is acceptable.
69% believe the major task is the reinstatement of the value of motherhood? Er, what?

'We've got the choice to have a career, but most of us have no choice' ... Again what?
And that's the fault of feminism, apparently 'a downside to its success'.

Apparently only 8% of 20-24 year olds regard themselves as feminists, according to Netmums. Any examination of the 20-24 year olds on netmums? No.

feMEnism. ME. The 'survey' is an attempt to attract advertising revenue from advertisers to their website. These are entrepreneur people making choices. Middle-class, anti-woman and anti-feminist.
Its research (sample and questions alike) is bogus and no newspaper should be accepting any of its conclusions or research as a starting off point for anything.

Ok not read the whole thread so maybe repeating what others have said. But the acceptable activities for a feminist bit has pissed me of so much I don't know where to begin. No I do with the fact that includes having highlights and false nails and prostitution as though thay are each just some forms of life style choice.

 

[Wilf]

well, you can fuck off and take your misery and shit somewhere else. then the rest of us can have a slightly more constructive discussion.

Can't disagree with that. However, if you are Llletsa I'd like to say the permaban seemed a bit dispraportionate, even if you were (very much) out of order disbelieving Mrs M and others about disability hate crime. I was on your case and you desrved a serious kick up the arse over that. Permaban - no (though I don't know the 'previous' on which it was based, so equally I'm not really having a go at the mods).


If you ain't Lletsa, this will be deeply confusing. However Captain Hurrah's CSI Team have provided incontravertible linguistic analysis.

 

[toggle]

Ok not read the whole thread so maybe repeating what others have said. But the a acceptable activities for a feminist bit has passed me of so much I don't know where to begin. No I do with the fact that includes having highlights and false nails and prostitution as though that are each just some forms of life style choice.

an acceptable act for a feminist is tbh, whatever the fuck she wants to do. it's forced activities we should focus on. not things a woman chooseds to do. an attitude of 'you're letiing the side down' by choosing to wear what you choose to wear, as one example, is what drives young women away in some cases.

that isn't to say i think every choice is a feminist choice. i've chatted on the net to women who claim to have chosen to enter into marriages where they are submissive to their husbands. that is their choice, but ti's a long way from being feminist. but we need to explore why they have felt the need to make these dicisions rather than attack them personally.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Can't disagree with that. However, if you are Llletsa I'd like to say the permaban seemed a bit dispraportionate, even if you were (very much) out of order disbelieving Mrs M and others about disability hate crime. I was on your case and you desrved a serious kick up the arse over that. Permaban - no (though I don't know the 'previous' on which it was based, so equally I'm not really having a go at the mods).


If you ain't Lletsa, this will be deeply confusing. However Captain Hurrah's CSI Team have provided incontravertible linguistic analysis.

The username is also a giveaway. He's a Hamilton fan.

I don't think he should have been permabanned either, fwiw.

 

[sihhi]

that isn't to say i think every choice is a feminist choice. i've chatted on the net to women who claim to have chosen to enter into marriages where they are submissive to their husbands. that is their choice, but ti's a long way from being feminist. but we need to explore why they have felt the need to make these dicisions rather than attack them personally.

That's not simple "their choice", those "marriages" are entered into for the income security they provide. That's economic coercion. Who has ever attacked them personally? Feminism has never attacked 'wives' personally. It never attacked Miss USA personally etc etc.