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Anti-paedophile demo - Weymouth

Of course i feel itsa a problem that needs addressing. Accusation of dishonesty is a bit off the wall...
Sadists and law and order fetishishts are shite but then what do you expect?
Do you think people like Sidney Cooke,Ian Huntley and Sarah Paynes murderers should have been in prison at the times the murders were committted? I do and thats why i would like to see much longer sentences for violent sex offenders.
 
About Ian Huntley, I am not sure what actually could be done to prevent him, apart from actually managing to secure convictions for rape easier - he wasn't convicted was he??

I think about 6 women had accused him of rape. Not women who knew each other. Now i guess one could be lying exaggeratting but when multiple women make a accusastion of rape the balance of probabilities is overwhelmingly that he was a dangerous sex offender.
But the law in this country is a joke and he never went to court let alone prison. The soham murders would never have happened if he had been stopped and he should have been.
 
I think about 6 women had accused him of rape. Not women who knew each other. Now i guess one could be lying exaggeratting but when multiple women make a accusastion of rape the balance of probabilities is overwhelmingly that he was a dangerous sex offender.
But the law in this country is a joke and he never went to court let alone prison. The soham murders would never have happened if he had been stopped and he should have been.

The levels of convictions for rape are a joke, but I don't think you can do about unproven accusations. It has to start with rape cases being more likely to succeed in prosecution - which is a tricky one because it is essentially one person's word against another so often. :(
 
The levels of convictions for rape are a joke, but I don't think you can do about unproven accusations. It has to start with rape cases being more likely to succeed in prosecution - which is a tricky one because it is essentially one person's word against another so often. :(

this is a problem. I would find it very difficult, sitting on a jury, to find someone guilty when it's one person's word against another. I think I would send a 'not guilty' down 99 times out of a 100
 
That's right, the sex offender's register and all the rest of it would not have stopped Ian Huntley.

Even when one quarter of the population is on the database of potential nonces, sorry, I mean the Governments's "Child Protection Database", guys like Huntley will still exist, unregistered.

My feeling is that the main difference will be to increase the isolation of children.

"If you see one cross to other side of street, do not look in case you are seen looking, do not talk if you see one, do not help if you see one that needs help".
 
The sentences handed down to dangerous paedophiles needs to change.
Surely you mean "to paedophiles who are convicted in a court of law"?
But it hasnt despite all the shite that comes out from the tabloids and also the people obsessed in saying its all media hype. Nothing much changes.
Tariff has increased twice during the last 10 years, which might be considered a step in the right direction.
Some Sex offenders are truly prolific in their abuse and stiffer sentnences and new laws are needed. Ian Huntley should have been stopped years before the Soham murders accused by multiple women of raping them....When that happens the chance of it being mere co-incidence is far from likely. He should have been in prison at the time of the murder. There needs to be a law especially for sex offenders to be tried based on balance of probabilties.
Shifting the burden of proof from "beyond reasonable doubt" to "on the balance of probabilities" for ANY crime opens the door to governments riding roughshod over judicial discretion, which isn't something anyone sane should want, as well as setting a precedent for structural changes that could very easily deprive non-criminals of basic rights.
 
Shifting the burden of proof from "beyond reasonable doubt" to "on the balance of probabilities" for ANY crime opens the door to governments riding roughshod over judicial discretion, which isn't something anyone sane should want, as well as setting a precedent for structural changes that could very easily deprive non-criminals of basic rights.

OK you might have a point there...Just for once you slippery toad!

But even on the basis of "beyond reasonable doubt" Huntley should have gone to court and all the evidence from various women should have been put to a jury. But that didnt happen the CJS is too weak and doesnt do enough to stop people like him. And in a way muych as i hate to admit it dylans does sort of have a point. If you look at all the time and money wasted on crb checks its dealing hysterically with problems in a real cack handed way.
The point i am trying to make proably almost as badly as dylans is that yes the amount of violent sex offenders is limited but much much more could and should be done to target them and stop their activities.
The amount of misery and fear they create has to be addressed and just blaming it all on the media is a very dangerous cop out in my view.
 
"moral panic" 34 results
"knee jerk" 27 results
I presume you're counting the appearances of these terms in this thread?

Is that really the best you can do for an argument - count the appearance of two terms which admirably describe exactly what is going on here?
 
But even on the basis of "beyond reasonable doubt" Huntley should have gone to court and all the evidence from various women should have been put to a jury. But that didnt happen the CJS is too weak and doesnt do enough to stop people like him.
Specifically, the Crown Prosecution Service drops charges if they think a conviction is improbable, or if a prosecution isn't "in the public interest". [1] Huntley had at least one rape charge against him dropped by the CPS. [2] Even if a victim launches a private prosecution, the CPS can take it over, and drop it! [3]

Instead of nasty databases that catalogue presumptively innocent people alongside convicts, abolish the CPS tests, and prosecute if there's a prima facie case. Labour have, to my knowledge, never even considered ditching the CPS tests, even in serious cases. If they genuinely cared about protecting the public from dangerous men, they would. If public safety was a pretext to boost their power, they wouldn't.

Authoritarianism: less free, less safe.
 
abolish the CPS tests, and prosecute if there's a prima facie case.

Authoritarianism: less free, less safe.

The CPS require in part a realistic prospect of conviction. Unless you want resources pissed away on lawyers on cases that are going to fail once they hit the Court that is a pretty sensible stance to take. The real challenge is gathering the evidence to make the chance of conviction realistic. It requires resources and the correct attitude, commitment, from the Police. Detection o f crime is not a straightforward, easy results process with many of these offences.

Huntley would not pass a modern enhanced crb check based on what had occurred previously. His case is one of the reasons enhanced CRB's were introduced.

Rapes are notoriously difficult to prove, even if forensic evidence is gathered it is difficult to convince a jury that the sex was non-consensual.

There are no such problems in most paedo crimes. Where photographs are on beasts PC's they can easily be proven to be in breach of the law. If victims are willing to speak out, they are, for the most part, believed.

Being someone who has been subjected to an enhanced CRB check I know of the difficulties that it can cause. I have a very old caution for cannabis on my record that I have to mention every time I apply for a job due to the nature of what I do. When the police stop me it is something that shows up on their radios. But I am quite happy to accept this inconvenience if it stops one Huntley, or one Sidney Cooke from being able to make contact and gain a position of trust in order to kill or abuse one child.

And if a sick user of child pornography is identified in public, causing him some problems in the local community I feel that that is a price well worth paying if it protects a child from possible abuse.

Crime statistics from a country the size of the US with the gun laws and culture that they have can not be transposed to the UK. It is absurd. All I know is that when I grew up we were aware of a few paedo filth and to stay well clear of them because of the size of the town. It turned out there were even more than we knew of, but that gave us some modicum of safety. We still went out and played despite the knowledge that there were some monsters to avoid.

Children should be able to speak confidently with adults, sure of the knowledge that if paedo scum are caught they will be imprisoned for life, or fully identified to their communities.

I was in Canterbury a few weeks ago with my family and a man was behind me taking photographs. I looked over and he started saying, "Oh, its just for a project, I am taking pictures of shadows, shadows." I couldn't give a toss what he was doing but he then said to my wife , "look, look it is just of shadows," and he showed us what was on his camera. He then took a photo of my children's shadows. I had said absolutely nothing to him that I was suspicious of his behaviour but he seemed to assume that I thought he was a beast. He had a strange scraggly beard, and was wearing some fucking hippy rainbow coloured clothes. Anyway, because of his weird behaviour I googled Canterbury and Paedophile when I got home and found out that it is another cluster for these filth. Not surprisingly as it has a large tourist flow and they can hide amongst the crowds.

My point is that if there was a register of convicted paedo scum I would have been able to check whether this character was as innocent as he probably is or whether he was building a shadow portfolio to use to build a sick photoshop library. If he was a convicted paedo then I could contact his local Police and let them know that the beast was up to his old tricks. Alternatively, I could rest in the knowledge that he is exactly as he I treated him, an innocent man with a strange habit and a regrettable taste in facial hair and clothes.
 
I was in Canterbury a few weeks ago with my family and a man was behind me taking photographs. I looked over and he started saying, "Oh, its just for a project, I am taking pictures of shadows, shadows." I couldn't give a toss what he was doing but he then said to my wife , "look, look it is just of shadows," and he showed us what was on his camera. He then took a photo of my children's shadows. I had said absolutely nothing to him that I was suspicious of his behaviour but he seemed to assume that I thought he was a beast. He had a strange scraggly beard, and was wearing some fucking hippy rainbow coloured clothes. Anyway, because of his weird behaviour I googled Canterbury and Paedophile when I got home and found out that it is another cluster for these filth. Not surprisingly as it has a large tourist flow and they can hide amongst the crowds.

What a load of paranoid loonery. You are the perfect argument why public disclosure legislation is a bad idea. Hippy rainbow coloured clothes FFS:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Incidentally, I just googled Canterbury and paedophilia and could find nothing that suggested it was a "cluster for filth" could you show us the relevant links that point to this. Or, as I suspect did you just make that up?
 
I was in Canterbury a few weeks ago with my family and a man was behind me taking photographs. I looked over and he started saying, "Oh, its just for a project, I am taking pictures of shadows, shadows." I couldn't give a toss what he was doing but he then said to my wife , "look, look it is just of shadows," and he showed us what was on his camera. He then took a photo of my children's shadows. I had said absolutely nothing to him that I was suspicious of his behaviour but he seemed to assume that I thought he was a beast. He had a strange scraggly beard, and was wearing some fucking hippy rainbow coloured clothes. Anyway, because of his weird behaviour I googled Canterbury and Paedophile when I got home and found out that it is another cluster for these filth. Not surprisingly as it has a large tourist flow and they can hide amongst the crowds.

My point is that if there was a register of convicted paedo scum I would have been able to check whether this character was as innocent as he probably is or whether he was building a shadow portfolio to use to build a sick photoshop library. If he was a convicted paedo then I could contact his local Police and let them know that the beast was up to his old tricks. Alternatively, I could rest in the knowledge that he is exactly as he I treated him, an innocent man with a strange habit and a regrettable taste in facial hair and clothes.
Now I know you're trolling! :)

ETA: dylans, I think he's just trumped your "ban rusty nails" campaign. Get to it! ;)
 
What a load of paranoid loonery. You are the perfect argument why public disclosure legislation is a bad idea. Hippy rainbow coloured clothes FFS:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

If there was public disclosure then my doubts would be laid to rest you idiot. I am 99% sure he is an innocent wierdo, but why did he get so defensive when I had said nothing to him? If there was full disclosure then I would know who the real filth are, and be able to identify them.

You can keep your head in the sand but there are real paedos out there. Distorted and rancid beasts, men and women, who dream of abusing and killing children. That is a fact that belies any figures you may choose to pluck out of the US.

And I notice that you have failed to respond to any of my substantive points.
 
The CPS require in part a realistic prospect of conviction. Unless you want resources pissed away on lawyers on cases that are going to fail once they hit the Court that is a pretty sensible stance to take.
Check the link I posted. ([1], above.) It's not just a "realistic prospect of conviction", it's "conviction probable". If the CPS decides that conviction is probable, they can still toss the case on the nebulous grounds of "in the public interest". Absurd cases like this slip through the CPS net, while serious assaults and rapes are junked. Their tests are inconsistent, bordering on the arbitrary.

The CPS test could, at least, be removed for serious indictable crimes like GBH, child abuse, rape, and murder. The right of the CPS to Shanghai private prosecutions should definitely be removed. If people want to use their own resources in seeking justice, they should be allowed to get on with it.

Someone who wants "beasts" brought to book should surely support some more risks being taken in prosecuting them.
 
if there was public disclosure then my doubts would be laid to rest you idiot. I am 99% sure he is an innocent wierdo, but why did he get so defensive when i had said nothing to him? If there was full disclosure then i would know who the real filth are, and be able to identify them.

You can keep your head in the sand but there are real paedos out there. Distorted and rancid beasts, men and women, who dream of abusing and killing children. That is a fact that belies any figures you may choose to pluck out of the us.

And i notice that you have failed to respond to any of my substantive points.

Can i have the google links that you claim show canterbury to be a "nest of beasts" please?
 
If there was public disclosure then my doubts would be laid to rest you idiot. I am 99% sure he is an innocent wierdo, but why did he get so defensive when I had said nothing to him? If there was full disclosure then I would know who the real filth are, and be able to identify them.
No you wouldn't, you twit, you'd just know who'd been convicted. And who, for that matter, had decided to co-operate with the system and report their various changes of address (which, with public disclosure, are likely to become ever-more-frequent).

In fact, your public disclosure idea probably wouldn't have previously convicted offenders electing to not update their whereabouts, they'd probably get to the point, after they're hounded off their tenth housing estate, where it would be their only option to stand a chance of living in any kind of peace and quiet.

If you can't even get the supposed benefits right of this scheme you're claiming to be all in favour of, why on earth should the rest of your argument be worth listening to?
 
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Denizen of Canterbury. I have my suspicions.
 
If there was public disclosure then my doubts would be laid to rest you idiot. I am 99% sure he is an innocent wierdo, but why did he get so defensive when I had said nothing to him? If there was full disclosure then I would know who the real filth are, and be able to identify them.
Why did you freak him out? Blimey that's a tough one alright ... let me have a think ...

Ah! Could it be there's something ... odd about you? Something that gives folks the impression you may be some kind of weirdo sadist and law-and-order fetishist? Perhaps the sort of creep who seeks out "different" looking people to victimise?

Just a thought, like :facepalm:
 
The right of the CPS to Shanghai private prosecutions should definitely be removed. If people want to use their own resources in seeking justice, they should be allowed to get on with it.

Couldn't agree more, what has been happening with FACT private prosecutions being taken over by the CPS is crazy.



who wants "beasts" brought to book should surely support some more risks being taken in prosecuting them.

I agree to some extent but think that the real emphasis should be placed on improving the quality of investigations so that solid cases are presented to the CPS for consideration. There are some factors that could be streamlined. Requirements for continuity of evidence have become absurd as a result of miscarriages of justice. Rather than the Officers concerned being subjected to
hefty penalties immense amounts of unnecessary paperwork have been placed on any complex investigation. All too often short cuts are taken which can mean that cases are thrown out by the CPS at the last stage on a technicality.
 
type in canterbury paedophile in to google and you will find some pretty sickening "criminals"
Why the scare quotes around "criminals" - aren't people convicted of sexual offences against children criminals, or have you got your Daily Mail Invective Injector turned up to 11 again?
 
Why did you freak him out? Blimey that's a tough one alright ... let me have a think ...

Ah! Could it be there's something ... odd about you? Something that gives folks the impression you may be some kind of weirdo sadist and law-and-order fetishist? Perhaps the sort of creep who seeks out "different" looking people to victimise?

Just a thought, like :facepalm:

Absolutely absurd. Anyone who knew me would know that was the case. You are casting aspersions based purely on prejudice due to the fact that my views differ from your own. You are the one who is narrow minded.
 
Why the scare quotes around "criminals" - aren't people convicted of sexual offences against children criminals, or have you got your Daily Mail Invective Injector turned up to 11 again?

Dylan objected to the use of the word beasts to describe people who kill and abuse children and instead said that I should refer to them as criminals.
 
It was just a suggestion, based on the impression you've made on a number of posters here!

What's your theory then?
 
Dylan objected to the use of the word beasts to describe people who kill and abuse children and instead said that I should refer to them as criminals.
Actually, you asked what dylans would call a paedophile (rather than "beast") and dylans said he calls such people criminals.

So why the scare quotes?
 
No you wouldn't, you twit, you'd just know who'd been convicted. And who, for that matter, had decided to co-operate with the system and report their various changes of address (which, with public disclosure, are likely to become ever-more-frequent).

In fact, your public disclosure idea probably wouldn't have previously convicted offenders electing to not update their whereabouts, they'd probably get to the point, after they're hounded off their tenth housing estate, where it would be their only option to stand a chance of living in any kind of peace and quiet.

If you can't even get the supposed benefits right of this scheme you're claiming to be all in favour of, why on earth should the rest of your argument be worth listening to?

If they do not sign on they will be sent back to prison immediately, have any personal possessions confiscated and if not caught have a bounty placed on them from the funds seized from other paedo criminals.
 
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