Anti-paedophile demo - Weymouth

[ViolentPanda]

No shit Sherlock. But it is standard to refer to the original, unamended Act when it is still in force. That is why rafts of Regulations are made under the European Communities Act 1972, it is why people still refer to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 even though it has had umpteen amendments.

Yes, and how do ou refer to it?
usually paragraph, section, Act, relevant (if any) amendment, as I recall (I may be wrong about the order, it's been a while since I've done any legislative work).

I never referred to the entirety of LGA2000, I referred specifically to s. 2(1) (b) as you well know.

May I suggest that you learn how to read?

And no, I don't have access to Westlaw. Your view that I must do so just goes to show your own limitations.

My view that you do proceeds from my opinion that it contains quite a bit of shite, as do you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think it's entirely understandable that a survivor of abuse would treat you with unbridled contempt. Your nostrums are emotional and selfish. They are driven by your own psychopathology, and not a concern to empower children.

Your posturing and patronising prissiness grates. It is deeply offensive to folks -- like survivors -- who are serious about the issues.

Sort it out, kenny!

You're assuming he gives a toss about anything except his own need to be "right".

 

[ViolentPanda]

I still think he's just fucking about/trolling.

Which rather gives the lie to his pious protestations about the feelings of people who've been abused.

And draws my attention (because I'm not a particularly nice person who doesn't really care about propriety) to why he'd feel the need to "troll", and if he isn't "trolling", why he needs to project such anger.
I'm reminded of when I played rugby, and how the most verbally homophobic players were the ones who indulged most in "changing room culture"-type "horseplay", and in standing around naked for far longer than anyone else.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Oh, and stop searching westlaw, it's crap.

*slips VP's cheque in the mail*

 

[aylee]

Thread over.

Thank you, existentialist!

 

[audiotech]

Not quite.

Here's a disturbing documentary revealing a nationwide child abuse and pedophilia ring that leads to the highest levels of government in the US and the details of the cover up that followed.

 

[existentialist]

Not quite.

Here's a disturbing documentary revealing a nationwide child abuse and pedophilia ring that leads to the highest levels of government in the US and the details of the cover up that followed.

From that website: "For a concise summary of CIA mind control with links to declassified documents, click here"

So not exactly from the most unbiased of sources...and I can't help wondering if child abuse is just being used as a Trojan Horse here to peddle a rather less significant agenda. I notice the same tagline occurs on other websites where it is clearly an attempt to link CIA mind control with these child sexual abuse allegations.

The whole "ritual abuse" thing was pretty well demolished two decades ago.

I haven't watched the video, and I may well be wrong, in which case I apologise for my scepticism. But right now several of my alarm bells are ringing...

 

[existentialist]

kenny g's gone awfully quiet...?

 

[audiotech]

It was produced by Yorkshire TV and the Discovery Channel who were apparently pressurised to pull it. This site is just hosting it. It's not about "ritual abuse". I suggest you watch it and make your own mind up about its content.

 

[existentialist]

It was produced by Yorkshire TV and the Discovery Channel who were apparently pressurised to pull it. This site is just hosting it. It's not about "ritual abuse". I suggest you watch it and make your own mind up about its content.

I can't remember the last time I followed an instruction like that and felt the exercise was remotely worth it. If the material is summarised textually, I'm much more likely to give it a look...

 

[audiotech]

The documentary film covers the failure of the Franklin Community Credit Union in November 1988, with allegations that money from the union had been used to finance child prostitution. It features an interview with a former CIA director, numerous members of the Nebraska state legislature and alleged victims, all of whom confirm the validity of the Franklin child prostitution ring, including the ring's connection to high-powered Washington politicians.

 

[existentialist]

The documentary film covers the failure of the Franklin Community Credit Union in November 1988, with allegations that money from the union had been used to finance child prostitution. It features an interview with a former CIA director, numerous members of the Nebraska state legislature and alleged victims, all of whom confirm the validity of the Franklin child prostitution ring, including the ring's connection to high-powered Washington politicians.

Thank you! I must say, having googled "Franklin Community Credit Union", the subject has certainly attracted a fair degree of hysterical attention, but I'm sure I can cut my way through all that.

 

[Louloubelle]

Not quite.

Here's a disturbing documentary revealing a nationwide child abuse and pedophilia ring that leads to the highest levels of government in the US and the details of the cover up that followed.

I have not seen the documentary (will try to make time to do so soon) but some of the supporting documentation looks pretty incredible

For example this 1st person account seems not right

http://www.wanttoknow.info/nationbetrayed10pg


It's not that I doubt the existence of covert experiments regarding mind control and it's not that I doubt that government can sometimes do terrible things, but this account does not seem to come from a credible witness.

She is saying that she was abused by her father and grandfather since she was "in diapers". She may have been, the abuse of very young children does happen, but the memories of very young children are highly unreliable as their capacity for temporal and spatial understanding is limited and affected by primitive infant phantasies.

She talks about experiences to induce dissociative states that would create "alters"(seperate personalities within the same person, each with its own memories and abilities).

I do not doubt the existence of dissociative states, they are familiar to anyone who has experienced or studies serious emotional trauma, however the idea of "alters" is a creation of a completely discredited branch of psychotherapy.

Reading such 1st person accounts is difficult because the subject matter is so distressing and horrific and because you feel for the person writing it who is obviously very troubled, but given the fantastical elements of the account it is really difficult to know what is true and what is not.

 

[dylans]

I have not seen the documentary (will try to make time to do so soon) but some of the supporting documentation looks pretty incredible

For example this 1st person account seems not right

http://www.wanttoknow.info/nationbetrayed10pg


It's not that I doubt the existence of covert experiments regarding mind control and it's not that I doubt that government can sometimes do terrible things, but this account does not seem to come from a credible witness.

She is saying that she was abused by her father and grandfather since she was "in diapers". She may have been, the abuse of very young children does happen, but the memories of very young children are highly unreliable as their capacity for temporal and spatial understanding is limited and affected by primitive infant phantasies.

She talks about experiences to induce dissociative states that would create "alters"(seperate personalities within the same person, each with its own memories and abilities).

I do not doubt the existence of dissociative states, they are familiar to anyone who has experienced or studies serious emotional trauma, however the idea of "alters" is a creation of a completely discredited branch of psychotherapy.

Reading such 1st person accounts is difficult because the subject matter is so distressing and horrific and because you feel for the person writing it who is obviously very troubled, but given the fantastical elements of the account it is really difficult to know what is true and what is not.

This reminds me of Cathy O brien's fantastical tale of CIA mind control sex slavery in her book Trans Formations of America. O Brien claimed she was a mind control sex slave to Dick Cheney, George Bush, Bob Hope and Bill and Hillary Clinton ( who she also supplied with Coke)

I find this kind of conspiraloon abuse porn offensive frankly. It trivialises an important issue and diverts attention from the real issues and causes the kind of witch hunts we saw in the Satanic abuse madness of last decade.

 

[JimW]

You tip the other way into knee-jerk denial. You only have to think of cases like the Haut de la Garenne orphanage in Jersey or the Kincora Boy's Home in Belfast to know that conspiracies to abuse take place.

 

[_angel_]

You tip the other way into knee-jerk denial..

Really? That never happens on here...

 

[dylans]

You tip the other way into knee-jerk denial. You only have to think of cases like the Haut de la Garenne orphanage in Jersey or the Kincora Boy's Home in Belfast to know that conspiracies to abuse take place.

Incredible claims like CIA mind control sex slaves were supplied to Bob Hope etc, require solid evidence. Links to sites that claim 9/11 were an inside job etc are not evidence.

 

[Louloubelle]

This reminds me of Cathy O brien's fantastical tale of CIA mind control sex slavery in her book Trans Formations of America. O Brien claimed she was a mind control sex slave to Dick Cheney, George Bush, Bob Hope and Bill and Hillary Clinton ( who she also supplied with Coke)

I find this kind of conspiraloon abuse porn offensive frankly. It trivialises an important issue and diverts attention from the real issues and causes the kind of witch hunts we saw in the Satanic abuse madness of last decade.

I struggle with it because I worry that we may throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I have no idea if these women were abused as children and just because their discourses and testimonies sound crazy and are incredible on many levels does not mean that there are no truthful elements in them.

One of my personal bugbears is that you should not dismiss abuse victim's witness testimonies just because they sound outlandish; simply because truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

I have no doubt that, for example, ritual abuse does happen and is happening at this very moment. I just don't buy into the satanic panic of the 80s and 90ps upon which Valerie Sinason et al have carved out their dubious careers.

The unfortunate consequence of the hysterical discourse surrounding the "satanic panic" is that people are far less likely to believe traumatised victims who do come forward having been abused in a ritual setting.

In fact a cunning, manipulative abuser might dress up their abuse in ritual robes with all kinds of outrageous and outlandish trappings simply because the testimony of victims abused in such ways sounds incredible and is less likely to be believed than someone who was abused in a less dramatic way.

Staying thinking while remaining alert to all possibilities is the challenge IMO.

 

[JimW]

I agree that there's some looney-tunes stories out there, but at the same time there are also genuine cases of ongoing and systematic abuse with attendant cover-ups etc. that amount to what you could call a conspiracy.

 

[Jonti]

The panicky nutcases really do a lot of harm ~ remember the Cleveland Satanic Abuse scandal!

They do a lot of harm directly to the families they falsely accuse, and because they obscure the fact that there are indeed real conspiracies like Haut de la Garenne, and Kincora.

 

[existentialist]

The panicky nutcases really do a lot of harm ~ remember the Cleveland Satanic Abuse scandal!

They do a lot of harm directly to the families they falsely accuse, and because they obscure the fact that there are indeed real conspiracies like Haut de la Garenne, and Kincora.

Furthermore, they focus attention onto the grand and shocking examples which represent the tip of an iceberg, while encouraging us to look away from the real problem in child abuse, which is the not-so-exotic case most of the time - the rest of the iceberg, whose scale dwarfs these celebrated and exciting examples that sell newspapers and TV documentaries.

 

[audiotech]

The panicky nutcases really do a lot of harm ~ remember the Cleveland Satanic Abuse scandal!

If memory serves me right I don't recall the Cleveland Child Abuse Report having any "satanic" references?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You tip the other way into knee-jerk denial. You only have to think of cases like the Haut de la Garenne orphanage in Jersey or the Kincora Boy's Home in Belfast to know that conspiracies to abuse take place.

To be fair, there's a rather large difference between isolated cases of institutionalised abuse at establishments, and an over-arching international conspiracy of abuse.

 

[JimW]

I know, but you do see evidence in a fair few of these cases of careful planning/cover-ups etc to allow the abuse to continue and even iirc of offering children to other abusers. So not some massive all-pervading web, but not entirely random one-offs either is me point.

 

[Jonti]

If memory serves me right I don't recall the Cleveland Child Abuse Report having any "satanic" references?

My bad! There was no allegation of satanism in the Cleveland panic.

the anthropologist Jean La Fontaine ... like Bea Campbell ... had emerged during the early 1990s as an influential defender of the social workers and paediatricans who had been involved in the Cleveland crisis. Here, during the summer of 1987, more than a hundred children had been diagnosed as having been sexually abused on the basis of an ‘anal dilatation test’ which would subsequently be medically discredited.

source

If I'd googled I'd've realised I was confusing the Cleveland panic with the Rochdale Satanic Ritual Abuse panic.

The effect of each of these panics was similar ~ they were both themselves abusive of children and their families.