And next, Syria?

[J Ed]

I can't get over people actually thinking that this intervention is a good idea, NATO intervening on behalf of al-Qaeda is like what some tin foil hat wearer would make up if they wanted to act like the real world is like 1984. Except it's actually happening.

 

[sunny jim]

The Syrian air force can be disabled with cruise missiles strikes on the bases. The S 300s can't touch them.

S 300's are mobile, they aren't fired from a static base. They could be anywhere.

 

[Casually Red]

The Syrian air force can be disabled with cruise missiles strikes on the bases. The S 300s can't touch them.

bullshit

The S 300 were specifically designed to take out cruise missiles . The serbian army took out numerous cruise missiles with Anti aircraft artillery alone.

clearly you havent the remotest clue what your talking about

 

[Casually Red]

I can't get over people actually thinking that this intervention is a good idea, NATO intervening on behalf of al-Qaeda is like what some tin foil hat wearer would make up if they wanted to act like the real world is like 1984. Except it's actually happening.

this could well be happening too

http://rt.com/news/britain-qatar-troops-syria-893/

 

[TomUS]

bullshit

The S 300 were specifically designed to take out cruise missiles .

Being designed to doesn't mean they can actually be effective in a large cruise missile attack on the air bases. I'd bet on the cruise.

 

[camouflage]

Being designed to doesn't mean they can actually be effective in a large cruise missile attack on the air bases. I'd bet on the cruise.

Yes. Massive cocks are drawn to the cruise. Show the people.

 

[Casually Red]

Being designed to doesn't mean they can actually be effective in a large cruise missile attack on the air bases. I'd bet on the cruise.

ive been to the Nikola Tesla aircraft museum in Belgrade . Theyve got the remains of cruise missiles on display that their antiquated anti aircraft batteries shot down, along with a Predator drone and bits of a feckin stealth bomber . Ive seen them with my own eyes . The technology employed by Serbia back then falls well short of what Syria now possesses .

The S 300 isnt just an aircraft interceptor, its a missile interceptor as well . It will take out a cruise missile without any difficulty at all .

 

[Casually Red]

I'd bet on the cruise.

well your an idiot so thats hardly surprising

 

[thriller]

interesting thing about the s300 is that it needs training on it's use-so if it does get delivered it will mean russian technicians to be present in Syria. Any attack on it hopefully will cause a few russian casualties and Boom, the russian bear will kick off...

 

[J Ed]

interesting thing about the s300 is that it needs training on it's use-so if it does get delivered it will mean russian technicians to be present in Syria. Any attack on it hopefully will cause a few russian casualties and Boom, the russian bear will kick off...

Hopefully?

 

[thriller]

yes.

 

[Casually Red]

 

[Casually Red]

heres pictures from that museum in Belgrade

http://thevelvetrocket.com/2013/03/03/american-aircraft-shot-down-by-serbia-in-1999/

 

[kebabking]

heres pictures from that museum in Belgrade

http://thevelvetrocket.com/2013/03/03/american-aircraft-shot-down-by-serbia-in-1999/

interesting that you feel that Syrian systems will be light years from those used by the Serbs in 1999, but that the Americans will be using the same systems they used against the Serbs in 1999.

why is that?

just a note on the S-300 - take a look at who bought some, and then see if you can find a NATO country that begins Gre... then ask yourself whether that country is likely to have conducted defence supression exercises with its NATO partners. then join the dots.

 

[teqniq]

From that link concerning the downing of the F16

The damage from the exploding missile destroyed the engine of the F-16CG, essentially turning it into a very expensive glider.

/derail

 

[weltweit]

I can't help wondering if it is any of our business. We don't really like either side and while it might be marginally better for us if there was a Syrian democracy who is to say whether the muslim brotherhood would not walk it and be unfriendly to the west.

Is it any of our business?

 

[Casually Red]

interesting that you feel that Syrian systems will be light years from those used by the Serbs in 1999, but that the Americans will be using the same systems they used against the Serbs in 1999.

why is that?

.

where did I say or even hint at that . I was simply adressing that headers daft claim that the S 300 was incapable of intercepting the tomahawk cruise missile .

just a note on the S-300 - take a look at who bought some, and then see if you can find a NATO country that begins Gre... then ask yourself whether that country is likely to have conducted defence supression exercises with its NATO partners. then join the dots

i can find NATO countries that begin with Cro.. and Slo..who pretty much gave their S 300s to the yanks . Regardless, its still capable of taking down NATO missiles and aircraft.

 

[Casually Red]

if it happens, it is.

my scepticism about such things however says that it may well be wishful thinking on somebodys part, or that its a political/diplomatic move entended to push the rebels to the negotiating table, or that its one of the many 'great ideas' that governments all over the world have that get ditched as soon as they wake up the next morning and say 'we decided what?'...

if it happens, or really, really looks like happening, then its very, very bad news.

The Iranians are flat out denying it, as it happens.

 

[Casually Red]

From that link concerning the downing of the F16



/derail

on a further derail the guy who shot down the invisible stealth bomber with an antiquated 1960s vintage SAM, Zoltan Dani, runs a bakery . Every year him and his mates from that AA unit get together and celebrate on the anniversary . With a huge big cake in the shape of a Stealth bomber.

 

[teqniq]

The Iranians are flat out denying it, as it happens.

Well that Indy article is penned by Fisk and a numner of Arabic people plus one or two other middle east commentators have taken to calling him unreliable of late. My recent favourite:

michaeldweiss: @FreeingSyria The late, great Richard Beeston once told me that Fisk reported from the front-lines of his own imagination.

Who knows? Hope it's not true though.

 

[Casually Red]

I can't help wondering if it is any of our business. We don't really like either side and while it might be marginally better for us if there was a Syrian democracy who is to say whether the muslim brotherhood would not walk it and be unfriendly to the west.

Is it any of our business?

the only people whos business it is are the Syrian peoples . Britian has as much right in determining who their president is as they have in determining who the British prime minister is . None whatsoever .

Furthermore running about the world overthrowing sovereign states who arent attacking you is actually highly illegal under international law, and for very good reason . At Nuremberg post world war 2 the crime of war of aggression was defined as one of the most wicked crimes a state could commit . Men were hanged as war criminals for it . Continually breaking and undermining international law in persuit of the great game , a criminal imperialist folly that led directly to world war one, makes the entire world an infinitely more dangerous place than it previously was . It endangers everyone on the planet .

 

[Casually Red]

 

[Casually Red]

Well that Indy article is penned by Fisk and a numner of Arabic people plus one or two other middle east commentators have taken to calling him unreliable of late. My recent favourite:



Who knows? Hope it's not true though.

I dunno . His prediction well prior to Qusair that the Syrian army may was revitalised and may well be shaping up to winning this thing looks to have been pretty accurate and well informed . He was the only journalist I heard taking that line back then.

 

[J Ed]

Even Boris Johnson is against arming the rebels http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10123938/Weve-left-it-too-late-to-save-Syria-this-conflict-can-never-be-won.html

 

[J Ed]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...se-of-the-sunni-muslim-salafists-8652931.html

One man, identified only as Adnan, told the Lebanese military how Sunni imams were issuing “fatwas” urging them to assault opposition families inside Syria. Adnan, according to the military, said that his group had executed 13 Syrian government troops – three of them by beheading – and admitted that he had entered a Turkman village on the outskirts of Qusayr, shot a man in the legs and then raped his daughters, aged seven, eight and 10. He then – according to a report buried deep inside a long article in one Beirut newspaper – shot all four dead.

Fuck the Salafist rapist cannibals and fuck William Hague. Disgusting.

 

[DownwardDog]

just a note on the S-300 - take a look at who bought some, and then see if you can find a NATO country that begins Gre... then ask yourself whether that country is likely to have conducted defence supression exercises with its NATO partners. then join the dots.

The SA-10/S-300 (if the Syrians have them and are capable of actually using them effectively) is to be respected but not feared. NATO have had first hand experience of operating, and hence defeating it, for almost 20 years. Also, the TEL and the round are both fucking huge and hard to hide making the shoot and scoot tactics the Serbians employed with the smaller SA-6 hard to replicate.

In Kosovo I had an SA-6 (I think) come through low cloud about 2 clicks away. It didn't guide and shot straight up so I'm thankful to the drunk/incompetent communist that assembled it. I stared at it so hard I think its trajectory is permanently branded on my retinas. Didn't really care for the experience.

 

[Idris2002]

For some reason this reminds me of Alan Partridge.

 

[Idris2002]

The SA-10/S-300 (if the Syrians have them and are capable of actually using them effectively) is to be respected but not feared. NATO have had first hand experience of operating, and hence defeating it, for almost 20 years. Also, the TEL and the round are both fucking huge and hard to hide making the shoot and scoot tactics the Serbians employed with the smaller SA-6 hard to replicate.

In Kosovo I had an SA-6 (I think) come through low cloud about 2 clicks away. It didn't guide and shot straight up so I'm thankful to the drunk/incompetent communist that assembled it. I stared at it so hard I think its trajectory is permanently branded on my retinas. Didn't really care for the experience.

Some day I hope to see DownwardDog in the flesh, to see if he really does have a handlebar moustache.

 

[weltweit]

I don't think this war is our business. Let the Americans arm the rebels if they want, or other countries closer to the theatre, the Yanks should have learnt from their experience arming the Afghan mujahideen against the Russians which came back to bite them on the nose, hand held anti surface to air anti aircraft missiles are not to be given out higgledy pigeldy. Boris says he trusts Cameron to make the right decision, I am not at all sure I trust either of them.

I vote not to get involved.

 

[Delroy Booth]

The SA-10/S-300 (if the Syrians have them and are capable of actually using them effectively) is to be respected but not feared. NATO have had first hand experience of operating, and hence defeating it, for almost 20 years. Also, the TEL and the round are both fucking huge and hard to hide making the shoot and scoot tactics the Serbians employed with the smaller SA-6 hard to replicate.

In Kosovo I had an SA-6 (I think) come through low cloud about 2 clicks away. It didn't guide and shot straight up so I'm thankful to the drunk/incompetent communist that assembled it. I stared at it so hard I think its trajectory is permanently branded on my retinas. Didn't really care for the experience.

This is all true, and appreciate the detail, but there's a couple of things. I don't think the S-300 are there to be used, it's there as part of the posturing. Likewise with the small US-led military buildup in Jordan, I doubt very much that Obama wants to commit US troops to Syria but he's putting them on standby to counter-posture the Russians.

And also - the S-300 might not be the newest or fanciest bit of weaponry around but it's enough to cause some concern to the US and Israel. Remember this from the Iraq War - "However, four days later, the Iraqis scored a direct hit on the Third Infantry Division, Second Brigade's Tactical Operations Center, with an Al-Samoud variant rocket, estimate 280 kg payload warhead, killing three soldiers, two foreign reporters, wounding 14 additional soldiers, and destroying 22 vehicles, mostly unarmored Humvees." and remember that was just one missile, or one batch of 6 possibly, from a desperate and defeated Iraqi army, it wasn't a co-ordinated artillery strike it was blind lashing out. They're weapons which can cause a great deal of damage if used correctly, even against a modern army, and certainly enough to make the yanks pause for thought before getting involved. You also wouldn't want one to be loaded up with Sarin gas and dropped over Tel Aviv that's for damn sure, and that kind of thing isn't unthinkable y'know. If the regime in Syria feels it'sabout to fal, then that sort of desperate thing to try and start world war 3 and internationalise the conflict is certainly possible.