And next, Syria?

[Mr.Bishie]

you realise the scum your cheerleading for will be looking forward to fun and games in britain when they come back all nice and trained, radicalised and empowered . with no need for kitchen sink mixtures thanks to all the gear being doled out to them .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22276312

I'm certainly not cheer leading for anyone, nor have I on this thread.

I do stand by what I said though - I hope Assad's brains get to become part of the fucking decor. I'm not that fussed who does it.

 

[weltweit]

Israel obviously hopes so.

Seeing as Israel is right there, on the doorstep so to speak one has to ask the question why don't they consider intervention themselves. But I suppose they are no friends to either side.

 

[camouflage]

Seeing as Israel is right there, on the doorstep so to speak one has to ask the question why don't they consider intervention themselves. But I suppose they are no friends to either side.

Even they wouldn't be foolish enough to march into that mess. Perhaps they can get those useful idiots in America to mix in though, lol.

 

[sunny jim]

I'm certainly not cheer leading for anyone, nor have I on this thread.

I do stand by what I said though - I hope Assad's brains get to become part of the fucking decor. I'm not that fussed who does it.

I think it matters loads who is the eventual victors in this conflict and its this short sightedness that has left a few countries in ruins after the west has finished - Libya and Iraq come to mind straight away. Just because people claim 'revolution' doesn't mean its gonna be a progressive force for good - I'm sure you wouldn't support a nazi revolt against Merkel in Germany even though you hate her.

 

[camouflage]

There are clearly two conflicting priorities to chose from with Syria, regime-change or ending the blood-shed. Regime-change is just another situation, useful to various agendas, but I don't think any real peace-based democracy gets born in war.

 

[kebabking]

...or...

isn't one of the drivers to this the view that this civil war isn't going to go away until Assad goes - in that if he was going to be able to crush the insurgency he would have done it already - and that therefore 'peace', in whatever flavour it comes, is only going to come with Assads defeat?

whatever government emerges in Syria - or collections of governments - is unlikely to be 'nice', and is probably going to be composed of, or heavily influenced by, jihadist groups. the issue is not whether thats a good thing or not, but how its managed and dealt with.

 

[camouflage]

isn't one of the drivers to this the view that this civil war isn't going to go away until Assad goes - in that if he was going to be able to crush the insurgency he would have done it already - and that therefore 'peace', in whatever flavour it comes, is only going to come with Assads defeat?

Actually no, the Americans, British and former colonial power France, and those Arab Petro-Kingdoms etc (the Friends of Syria I think they call themselves) are instructing the rebels not to negotiate with Assad, or to put another way, regime change first; only then talks.

We get no examination in the media about the concessions the regime has already made, or Assads pledge to step down next year and elections (made last year iirc, dunno where that is now with the war in full swing etc). If it's about peace... well yes there are ways out, plenty of indication of that imo. If it's about regime change then the war must certainly grind on. And regime change to what, yet another gaggle of bastards in no obvious way better than what has ruled till now, worse if anything due to sectarianism, and with many tens of thousands more dead.

Still, a quick PR thing against War Rape and we're good. Feed the conflict, let's mujahid-the-shit with jeeps and bloody millions (and later, if we can ram it through... a tsunami of heavy weapons). Maybe we should send in the-

"Peace. Envoy."

 

[TitanSound]

So, the West are deciding that it's likely chemical weapons have been used by Assad's regime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22305444

I hate to speculate what's coming next. But, iirc, didn't Obama say that use of chemical weapons would be a defining factor in getting involved in the conflict?

 

[camouflage]

So, the West are deciding that it's likely chemical weapons have been used by Assad's regime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22305444

I hate to speculate what's coming next. But, iirc, didn't Obama say that use of chemical weapons would be a defining factor in getting involved in the conflict?

Weird thing is that according to the initial reports I saw, it was Syrian Army that had been targeted by the gas.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Weird thing is that according to the initial reports I saw, it was Syrian Army that had been targeted by the gas.

Surely if that were the case, it would mean that rebels have access to such weapons, & that's exactly what Netanyahu didn't want to happen, given the any number of factions/terrorist orgs who may use them against Israel?

 

[Dogsauce]

Definitely heard mentions of chem weapons being in the hands of rebel groups somewhere a few months back.

I noted the initial reports yesterday were worded 'use of chemical weapons in Syria' without identifying the perpetrator (in the titles at least), and thought it sounded a bit fishy.

People there are smart enough to fake this if they think it'll bring the big guns in on their side. Remember 'yellow cake'?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I'm aware of what yellow cake is, but not sure in the context you're using the words ?

 

[Dogsauce]

I'm aware of what yellow cake is, but not sure in the context you're using the words ?

The fake evidence used in part to justify the Iraq invasion - a crude forgery by most accounts (names of government officials mis-spelled) yet still made it into one of Bush's speeches. Someone planted that evidence to help draw the US into the war, and from the standard of it possibly an amateur group like the Iraqi National Congress (though there are a mass of conspiracies as to who was behind it - one would expect the more obvious adversaries like Israel to have done a better job). It is possible something similar is happening here.

I've not actually read up or watched much on this current claim, so I'll admit that I'm casting doubts without seeing the evidence, just aware that some things come to light with a motive behind them, so cautious rather than cynical.

 

[thriller]

I'm all for intervention in syria as long as it goes hand in hand for intervention in Bahrain. wont support assad overthrow while sunni's get away with murder in bahrain against the shia.

 

[camouflage]

The fake evidence used in part to justify the Iraq invasion - a crude forgery by most accounts (names of government officials mis-spelled) yet still made it into one of Bush's speeches. Someone planted that evidence to help draw the US into the war, and from the standard of it possibly an amateur group like the Iraqi National Congress (though there are a mass of conspiracies as to who was behind it - one would expect the more obvious adversaries like Israel to have done a better job). It is possible something similar is happening here.

I've not actually read up or watched much on this current claim, so I'll admit that I'm casting doubts without seeing the evidence, just aware that some things come to light with a motive behind them, so cautious rather than cynical.

I'm cynical rather than cautious, as the usual suspects have previous and it's definitely their m.o.

 

[Casually Red]

Seeing as Israel is right there, on the doorstep so to speak one has to ask the question why don't they consider intervention themselves. But I suppose they are no friends to either side.

like when they invaded tiny lebanon all those times, and got chased out all those times..please . Even their last foray into Gaza was hardly a qualified success .

If the zionists go in there theyll be facing not just the syrian army but HB and quite likely the entire Iranian military too . And theyll have their asses handed to them . Meanwhile their jihadist allies..because theyre on the same side when it comes to the objective of taking down Syria , HB and Iran ...would stand reviled in the muslim world . And then no longer be fit for purpose .

 

[Casually Red]

I'm all for intervention in syria as long as it goes hand in hand for intervention in Bahrain. wont support assad overthrow while sunni's get away with murder in bahrain against the shia.

where in the name of fuck do you people get your god given sense of superiority when it comes to this intervention bollocks . Its a sovereign state and you have absolutely no right . The imperialism must be bred right into you .

I say Tarquin, lets send in the fly chappies and give johnny syrian a jolly good dose of aunties finest..wot wot..they dont like it up em yknow..bloody colonials..wot wot..wot wot..by jingo

 

[Casually Red]

So, the West are deciding that it's likely chemical weapons have been used by Assad's regime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22305444

I hate to speculate what's coming next. But, iirc, didn't Obama say that use of chemical weapons would be a defining factor in getting involved in the conflict?

the west are imperialist swine . Theyre playing their great game . Their proxies on the ground, despite an abundance of arms and foreign jihadists, havent been able to do the job quite simply because they dont have the support of the syrian people . Assad would have been gone long ago if they had . The fact is they dont and wont . Therefore something else is needed to get the job done .

What the west want is to use air power in the hope that that will do the job . Hence mysterious tales of chemical weapons . And even on the British keft theres plenty wholl either believe it or just go along with it because Assad is a nasty man . Hes a great deal less nasty though than the western leaders planning their next onslaught on an uncooperative ex colony .

 

[Casually Red]

Someone planted that evidence to help draw the US into the war, and from the standard of it possibly an amateur group like the Iraqi National Congress

the US were going into Iraq regardless . They told their proxies to come up with a fig leaf, no matter how ridiculous . The plain fact is they didnt give a toss if anyone believed it or not . Nobody will ever hold them to account and they simply didnt care less . They are criminals, as is the British state which colluded in their crimes .

 

[CyberRose]

Well, at least we know where Saddam's WMDs ended up now, no wonder they couldn't find them...

 

[Casually Red]

Well, at least we know where Saddam's WMDs ended up now, no wonder they couldn't find them...

 

[Sirena]

Assad is a nasty man . .

I don't agree with that. He is no worse than many politicans. He may have been running a dynastic authoritarian regime but, for decades, Syria was a stable, prosperous country for its citizens while many of its neighbours were not. Gadaffi was said to have been a monster and many ordinary people came to believe it but the truth was that, outside dangerous living-conditions for the political classes, there was relative properity. Literacy, healthcare and lving conditions were good for normal people

Syria would not bow to the US/Israeli axis and so regime change was orchestrated by the West, under the cover of the Arab Spring uprisings. Now the whole thing is going slightly pear-shaped and thousands of people are dying (to cries of hypocritical horror from the West) but Assad is not losing his grip, so the chemical weapon line, which has been trailed and developed by the Western propaganda machines for more than a year and which has been floated a few times (without result) over the last few months, is being ramped up.

Answer me. Would Assad use chemical weapons to kill a few dozen people knowing, as he does, that Obama has drawn his red line round them?

 

[camouflage]

Well, at least we know where Saddam's WMDs ended up now, no wonder they couldn't find them...

 

[Casually Red]

[quote="Sirena, post: 12184955, member: 5297"

I don't agree with that. He is no worse than many politicans. He may have been running a dynastic authoritarian regime but, for decades, Syria was a stable, prosperous country for its citizens while many of its neighbours were not. Gadaffi was said to have been a monster and many ordinary people came to believe it but the truth was that, outside dangerous living-conditions for the political classes, there was relative properity. Literacy, healthcare and lving conditions were good for normal people

Syria would not bow to the US/Israeli axis and so regime change was orchestrated by the West, under the cover of the Arab Spring uprisings. Now the whole thing is going slightly pear-shaped and thousands of people are dying (to cries of hypocritical horror from the West) but Assad is not losing his grip, so the chemical weapon line, which has been trailed and developed by the Western propaganda machines for more than a year and which has been floated a few times (without result) over the last few months, is being ramped up.

i dont agree with it either . Ive no hesitation in saying I support him . Just as I supported Gadaffi . And as regards not losing his grip events on the ground are shaping up like his forces are finally starting to turn the tide . A very good article by Robert Fisk in todays Independent on that subject .


They may be fighting for Syria, not Assad. They may also be winning

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...t-fisk-reports-from-inside-syria-8590636.html

I believe this nonsense about chemical weapons is an act of desperation by the wests proxies, not the Arab Syrian army . Theyre starting to lose and think this can get them aerial support .

Answer me. Would Assad use chemical weapons to kill a few dozen people knowing, as he does, that Obama has drawn his red line round them?

Of course he wouldnt , its utter nonsense . Furthermore had Sarin been used thered hasve been a massive death toll . The videos show alleged medics poking and prodding the supposed victims which is apparently something you just dont do to victims of a nerve agent . Its utter fakery .
And regardless of the wests reaction Assad is also heavily reliant on his Russian allies, whove told him in no uncertain terms not to . So why bother using it to kill a few insurgents when a regular bomb from a Mig would have done much more damage .

 

[CyberRose]

Muppet

 

[Fuchs66]

Once again I cant comment directly, despite really wanting to but here is a VERY good piece from the BBC, a lot of relevant information as to the situation regarding alleged chemical weapon use.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22322180

 

[Sirena]

Reading RT, there are questions about why the proposed inspection team does not include any Chinese or Russian observers...

 

[Idris2002]

where in the name of fuck do you people get your god given sense of superiority when it comes to this intervention bollocks . Its a sovereign state and you have absolutely no right . The imperialism must be bred right into you .

I say Tarquin, lets send in the fly chappies and give johnny syrian a jolly good dose of aunties finest..wot wot..they dont like it up em yknow..bloody colonials..wot wot..wot wot..by jingo

"That Captain Cornelius, miss, 'e was aht 'ere before all the real trouble started".

 

[Fuchs66]

Reading RT, there are questions about why the proposed inspection team does not include any Chinese or Russian observers...

Or French or British or US Inspectors. RT has a habit of not telling the whole truth.

E2A

The Hague-based Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is providing scientists and equipment. The team will consist of experts mostly from Nordic countries, Latin America or Asia. None will be from a permanent U.N. Security Council member, to avoid an appearance of bias.

My bold

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/12/syria-chemical-weapons-un-investigative-team_n_3068138.html

 

[elbows]

I don't agree with that. He is no worse than many politicans. He may have been running a dynastic authoritarian regime but, for decades, Syria was a stable, prosperous country for its citizens while many of its neighbours were not. Gadaffi was said to have been a monster and many ordinary people came to believe it but the truth was that, outside dangerous living-conditions for the political classes, there was relative properity. Literacy, healthcare and lving conditions were good for normal people

Syria would not bow to the US/Israeli axis and so regime change was orchestrated by the West, under the cover of the Arab Spring uprisings. Now the whole thing is going slightly pear-shaped and thousands of people are dying (to cries of hypocritical horror from the West) but Assad is not losing his grip, so the chemical weapon line, which has been trailed and developed by the Western propaganda machines for more than a year and which has been floated a few times (without result) over the last few months, is being ramped up.

Answer me. Would Assad use chemical weapons to kill a few dozen people knowing, as he does, that Obama has drawn his red line round them?

We'll have to wait and see, because its not clear at this point how much more the West are actually prepared to intervene. The chemical weapons stuff could lead to more, or it could end up demonstrating how empty the red line rhetoric is. It would be stupid to bet against further intervention, but there are certainly a number of things putting them off or they would have done more already.