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And next, Syria?

I posted the videos of them doing just that before . I'll look them up and post them again. It also needs to be rembered the initial protests were also Islamic in nature . Assads initial concessions to the protestors included a relaxation of strictly enforced secularism in universities, govt departments etc, the closure of the Damascus city casino and the release of what the west likes to call " political prisoners " . Many of whom were hard line Islamists . The " revolutionaries " nowadays try and lay the blame for their poor pr profile at Assads door and blame him for doing as they demanded pretty much .

Yeah I'd noticed the damned-if-he-do/damned-if-he-don't approach to Assad in relation to political prisoners, either he released them in a cynical effort to have jihadis running around delegitimising the opposition or he locked em up in accordance with being an authoritarian enemy of democracy. Can't fault the check-mate there, it's a good move regime-change agenda wise.

What can you say about the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in all this?
 
I wasn't aware of that, my understanding thus far has been that there was a protest movement sparked partly by neoliberal reforms and by rises in the cost of living like food prices in the wake of the global credit crunch and inspired by events nearby, that was then militarised (snipers and bombs) by the "jackals" in place since at least 2006 (to use John Perkin's term, no offence to actual jackals) who sniffed an opportunity re their plan of taking down seven MENA countries in five years iirc. Do you have more information on what you've said above?
And you'd be right camouflage. Climate change had an affect too pushing people into the cities as their crops failed.

Casually red unfortunately doesn't see what he doesn't want to see.
 
Are those 'happier times' you are referring to when the Assad regime and Gaddafi actively participated in the US's extraordinary rendition program?

'happier' times in quotes for a reason, although hundreds of thousands of people have died since then... including old Mad Dog himself (knife-raped and executed much to Hillary Clintons delight). Say what you want about Gaddafi, but he wasn't an idiot.
 
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Patrick Cockburn makes a fairly obvious point in the Independent today, but distressingly it's still a point that gets ignored. (Of course the fact that all we are hearing is propaganda from the rebels does not validate regime propaganda).

There's more propaganda than news coming out of Aleppo this week (Patrick Cockburn):

It has just become more dangerous to be a foreign correspondent reporting on the civil war in Syria. This is because the jihadis holding power in east Aleppo were able to exclude Western journalists, who would be abducted and very likely killed if they went there, and replace them as news sources with highly partisan “local activists” who cannot escape being under jihadi control.

The foreign media has allowed – through naivety or self-interest – people who could only operate with the permission of al-Qaeda-type groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham to dominate the news agenda.

...

There was a period in 2011 and 2012 when there were genuinely independent opposition activists operating inside Syria, but as the jihadis took over these brave people were forced to flee abroad, fell silent or were dead. In August 2013, I appeared on the same television programme as Razan Zaitouneh, a renowned human rights lawyer and founder of the Violations Documentation Centre which recorded crimes and atrocities. She was speaking by Skype from the opposition stronghold of Douma in north east Damascus where I had been the previous year, but it had become too risky for me to visit.

Zaitouneh was describing the sarin poison gas attack that had killed so many people in rebel-held districts of Damascus and denouncing the Syrian government for carrying it out. She was an advocate for the non-jihadi Syrian opposition, but she also criticised the Saudi-backed Jaish al-Islam movement that controlled Douma. On 8 December, its gunmen broke into her office and seized her and her husband Wael Hamada, and two civil rights activists: Samira al-Khalili, a lawyer, and Nazem al-Hamadi, a poet. None of the four have been seen since and are very likely dead.
 
Patrick Cockburn makes a fairly obvious point in the Independent today, but distressingly it's still a point that gets ignored. (Of course the fact that all we are hearing is propaganda from the rebels does not validate regime propaganda).

Of course it does. That's the entire point of this piece. Context not content.
 
The whole point of this point is to nornalise pro-assadiism. It''s cockburn saying this. COCKBURN. OMG he is saying this!!!

The independent journalists in Aleppo not doing the private school media route don't appear. They can't appear. How did they become a mirage?

That's context.
 
I wasn't aware of that, my understanding thus far has been that there was a protest movement sparked partly by neoliberal reforms and by rises in the cost of living like food prices in the wake of the global credit crunch and inspired by events nearby, that was then militarised (snipers and bombs) by the "jackals" in place since at least 2006 (to use John Perkin's term, no offence to actual jackals) who sniffed an opportunity re their plan of taking down seven MENA countries in five years iirc. Do you have more information on what you've said above?

Here you go, starting with the spokesperson for the Western backed SNC positively boasting about muslim volunteers all the way from Indonesia and all that jazz . These are the shitheads who then went on to spin the lie that the dastardly Assad created IS etc . A lie the lefts useful idiots are only too happy to peddle for them .




As regards the MB they totally dominated the SNC . They sat in the background and stuck up secular figureheads for western consumption . They were also instrumental in splitting the Palestinian base in Syria, inducing Hamas to..disastrously..turn on the Syrians and HB . Then of course Morsi weighed in as well..thankfully short lived . Their star began to wane after his downfall and later when Qatar got its knuckles rapped by the Saudis .
The MB were always at the heart of the initial uprising . From the very beginning . They were to all intents and purposes the Syrian opposition . Nothing was hijacked . Yes there were demands for social , political and economic reforms coming from people but the demands for Islam ...Sunni and strict..were right alongside them right from the word go . Because the very people making those demands were themselves Sunni and strict in the vast majority of cases . And some of those demands were demonstrably conceded to . Anyone telling you otherwise is a liar . Paid or otherwise .
 
Here you go, starting with the spokesperson for the Western backed SNC positively boasting about muslim volunteers all the way from Indonesia and all that jazz . These are the shitheads who then went on to spin the lie that the dastardly Assad created IS etc . A lie the lefts useful idiots are only too happy to peddle for them .




As regards the MB they totally dominated the SNC . They sat in the background and stuck up secular figureheads for western consumption . They were also instrumental in splitting the Palestinian base in Syria, inducing Hamas to..disastrously..turn on the Syrians and HB . Then of course Morsi weighed in as well..thankfully short lived . Their star began to wane after his downfall and later when Qatar got its knuckles rapped by the Saudis .
The MB were always at the heart of the initial uprising . From the very beginning . They were to all intents and purposes the Syrian opposition . Nothing was hijacked . Yes there were demands for social , political and economic reforms coming from people but the demands for Islam ...Sunni and strict..were right alongside them right from the word go . Because the very people making those demands were themselves Sunni and strict in the vast majority of cases . And some of those demands were demonstrably conceded to . Anyone telling you otherwise is a liar . Paid or otherwise .

Almost like you talked to each other to set up that post.

The chronology, do check it.
 
And you'd be right camouflage. Climate change had an affect too pushing people into the cities as their crops failed.

Casually red unfortunately doesn't see what he doesn't want to see.

I've NEVER stated there weren't legitimate demands among the initial protests . That's utter bollocks . Even Assad has said there were . It's you who only sees what you want .
 
I've NEVER stated there weren't legitimate demands among the initial protests . That's utter bollocks . Even Assad has said there were . It's you who only sees what you want .
Come on mate. I've never dissed you. Be honest. You wrote "Islamic in nature" absolute bollocks.

I posted the videos of them doing just that before . I'll look them up and post them again. It also needs to be rembered the initial protests were also Islamic in nature . Assads initial concessions to the protestors included a relaxation of strictly enforced secularism in universities, govt departments etc, the closure of the Damascus city casino and the release of what the west likes to call " political prisoners " . Many of whom were hard line Islamists . The " revolutionaries " nowadays try and lay the blame for their poor pr profile at Assads door and blame him for doing as they demanded pretty much .
 
There is no pro-Assadism to normalise. This is like Casually Red and his beating the bushes finding "pro-natoists".
 
Come on mate. I've never dissed you. Be honest. You wrote "Islamic in nature" absolute bollocks.

I wrote " also Islamic in nature " . An important difference you've deliberately omitted.

How difficult is it for you to understand that among the demands for political reform there were also demands for Sharia as an alternative to Baathism ? Your acting like there was this pure social movement unsullied and untainted by any Islamic agenda and demands . Despite it organising at Friday prayers and pouring out of the mosques . It was always there , right from the beginning . Yes indeed there were poor people protesting for better social conditions . But at the same time that's the very strata of Syrian society ..the rural poor...which is most hard line Sunni in nature . The 2 went hand in glove for those people .

Here's the leader of the Syrian Muslim brotherhood himself explaining why they stuck a liberal lefty up front of the SNC . To get the support of people like yourself in the west . to be more appealing pr wise to a western audience .



They were always there in the background and pulling the strings .
 
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How difficult is it for you to understand that among the demands for political reform there were also demands for Sharia as an alternative to Baathism ? Your acting like there was this pure social movement unsullied and untainted by any Islamic agenda and demands . Despite it organising at Friday prayers and pouring out of the mosques . It was always there , right from the beginning . Yes indeed there were poor people protesting for better social conditions . But at the same time that's the very strata of Syrian society ..the rural poor...which is most hard line Sunni in nature . The 2 went hand in glove for those people .

Here's the leader of the Syrian Muslim brotherhood himself explaining why they stuck a liberal lefty up front of the SNC . To get the support of people like yourself in the west . to be more appealing pr wise to a western audience .

They were always there in the background and pulling the strings .
I'm better talking to Syrians who have lived through it to be honest.

Know you can't be persuaded otherwise but there is a non Assad secular opposition.
 
There is no pro-Assadism to normalise. This is like Casually Red and his beating the bushes finding "pro-natoists".
Of course there is - his own reporting of the uprising is it. This has become the normal. This is what happens when rejected knowledge breaks through the barriers. When, as has happened now, murder, deliberate planned mass murder of your enemies becomes something we are now reporting on.

No pro-assadism? Can you explain that?
 
I'm better talking to Syrians who have lived through it to be honest.

Know you can't be persuaded otherwise but there is a non Assad secular opposition.

I've never said there wasn't . I've just posted a video of one of them being appointed by the Muslim brotherhood as a western friendly figurehead . And another earlier of one of them calling for mujahideen to descend on Syria from all over the Muslim world .

I can stick up a few more, such as an FSA general admitting the fight was for a future under sharia . Or even another with the FSA leadership standing praying alongside IS after they'd overrun an airbase .



They went hand in glove from the outset . That agenda was always there . Always at the core .

Blaming Assad for the Islamists is like blaming the barman for getting yourself pissed .
 
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I've never said there wasn't . I've just posted a video of one of them being appointed by the Muslim brotherhood as a western friendly figurehead . And another earlier of one of them calling for mujahideen to descend on Syria from all over the Muslim world .

I can stick up a few more, such as an FSA general admitting the fight was for a future under sharia . Or even another with the FSA leadership standing praying alongside IS after they'd overrun an airbase .
They went hand in glove from the outset . That agenda was always there . Always at the core .

Blaming Assad for the Islamists is like blaming the barman for getting yourself pissed .
I've watched it. Go for it. Marriage of convenience if that.

Still think you're missing the point. But happy to be proved wrong.
 
I've watched it. Go for it. Marriage of convenience if that.

Still think you're missing the point. But happy to be proved wrong.

I don't believe I am . I totally accept the point that there were social grievances being protested about . I also accept there are secular elements within the Syrian opposition .

The point I'm making though was that among the protestors there was a substantial body who saw sharia as the solution to their grievances . And that the secular elements within the Syrian opposition are little more than a fig leaf for bigoted contras . And that one can also be politically secular and a sectarian bigot at the same time.
 
This Al Jazeera anchors been a naughty boy, again . A few years ago he was openly promoting religious hatred against Christians in Egypt on his show . Now he's claiming the battle against IS in Mosul is a Shia inspired genocide against its Sunni population . What a fine channel that is .

 
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The Al Jazeera frontman has a bit of form for this sort of thing .

A previous puff piece on Al Nusra clearly outlined his bias towards the group . Basically him and Al Jazeera fronting a pr effort on their behalf .

“Abu Mohammed al-Golani’s Aljazeera Interview” by Aron Lund

Al Jazeera hides the real face of al-Nusra Front

Egyptian Coptic Church Accused of Stockpiling Weapons

Then again one his co presenters was advocating the genocide of Alawis on his Al Jazeera show a couple of years ago .
 
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