And next, Syria?

[camouflage]

What you're seeing in Aleppo is propaganda

The foreign media has allowed – through naivety or self-interest – people who could only operate with the permission of al-Qaeda-type groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham to dominate the news agenda.

 

[butchersapron]

MSM

 

[camouflage]

MSM

You hate Patrick Cockburn don't you? Or was it one of his brothers you and the usual were slagging off pages ago for reporting in government held Syria?

 

[Pickman's model]

I think most people can see what it is.

Most people. not you tho.

 

[Geri]

Great demonstration in Bristol yesterday in support of Aleppo. I spoke to a Syrian woman afterwards and we are going to get together in the new year to organise some more awareness raising events. The pro-Assadists turned up and were hugely outnumbered. After being spoke to by the police, they decided to leave.

 

[CrabbedOne]

On War Is Boring The Syrian Army Lost Palmyra, So Russia Blamed the United States

...
To be sure, there is little doubt some militants have moved from Mosul to Syria. In the days before the Iraqi offensive toward Mosul began on Oct. 17, several senior Islamic State leaders fled the city and headed toward Syria, according to U.S. officials.

Then Iraqi and Kurdish forces surrounded the city from its south, east and north. This conspicuously left the western side of that city open, potentially for militants to withdraw to their smaller Syrian stronghold in Raqqa.

“We’ll try to give them an escape to run to Syria,” Maj. Salam Jassim, a commander in Iraq’s elite special forces, said on the eve of the operation.

However, a spokesman in the Iraqi military, Brig. Gen. Yahya Rasoul, added that, “If we do that, then this area will become a killing zone as we target them with our own aircraft.”
...

Our version of the flight by green buses is a little messier than that favoured by the R+6.

Here Lavrov is upset that IS is reinforcing operations in Syria out of Iraq. Coalition-R+6 military operations against IS in Syria are not coordinated and are often not complementary. The Mosul salient being left open was pretty normal and not really the problem. It was finally nipped closed oat the IRGC's bidding by the Iraqi Hashd to some US displeasure. The optimistic plan was to massacre IS columns in flight from Mosul in open desert much as happened after Fallujah. IS in Mosul didn't go for that though some command units may have filtered out amongst fleeing IDPs. There's were actually some reports of IS fighters moving into Mosul in the opposite direction before the route in was cut. Some movements of population from the Hashd's target the IS stronghold of Tel Afar West of Mosul to Azaz NE of Aleppo were reported.

It's not covered here but it does seem IS has been moving large numbers fighters from Anbar to Syria. The ISF is overstretched by massing around Mosul and isn't as active there as it was.

Before Ramadi fell to IS the Iraqi's complained large IS columns were moving out of Syria into Anbar unmolested by any airpower. The usual Great Satan haters were pointing accusing fingers. US airpower was actually busy elsewhere dealing with an IS diversionary attack on Baiji. The Iraqi forces round Mosul have been complaining of lack of US CAS; it's a finite resources.

 

[CrabbedOne]

On War Is Boring Pro-Regime Forces in Syria Are Stretched Thin — And Fighting Among Themselves

...
In the first 10 months of 2016, the Aleppo-area militias launched one entirely unrelated offensive after another, suffered a number of costly failures and barely managed to repel two major counteroffensives launched by insurgents and jihadists.

For pro-regime forces, the consequences were deadly serious. Hezbollah and the loyalists squabbled in June 2016 while, over their heads, some 20 Russian and Syrian bombing raids went astray and struck regime forces. Several Russian military personnel deployed near Aleppo died in 2016.

Fed up with this mess, Moscow eventually forced Tehran and Damascus to establish a unified command. Thus on Nov. 22, the Russians stood up “V Corps.” Ever since the new corps headquarters assumed control of the battlefield, IRGC, Russian and loyalist assaults on besieged East Aleppo became much more effective.

The Syrian Arab Air Force re-stocked with improved Russian-made munitions and launched a devastating campaign of bombing raids on Aleppo. In the next phase of the assault, Russian army artillery — including BM-30 and TOS-1 rocket launchers — obliterated one rebel defensive position after another, knocking huge gaps in rebel lines that the loyalist and IRGC infantry quickly exploited.

This is what eventually ended the years-long stalemate in the battle for Syria’s biggest city. This is what destroyed rebel-held East Aleppo.
...

What the rebels always lacked: unity of command.

There's plenty of problems with the R+6; it's an unlikely alliance. Russian and Iranian strategic goals are often at odds. The Russians are exactly the sort of grabby-imperialists the Khomeini wanted out of Muslim's hair. Crucially they don't agree at all on Israel. The Russians are stuck with what's likely to be an insidiously undermining Iranian ally. The US dilemma in Baghdad from 06 on bears comparison and that went badly for Uncle Sam. The Russians have been deeply disappointed by a dilapidated SAA faded since Soviet times. There's no handy general who might replace the supremely awkward, Putin despised, Assad. The man's a fundamentally barrier to the sort of negotiated settlement his allies appear to envisage. The SAA is dwindling army of unwilling conscripts whose Alawite place man officers are often more focused on looting competitively with the regime's new NDF warlords than winning battles. It's still a core part of Russian strategy to build it up but the IRGC's militias are also essential. Lots of tensions were reported a year or so ago between SAA officers and IRGC/HA equivalents with the latter increasingly being moved into positions of seniority over badly led Syrian units. Looking at the line of battle doesn't reveal the growing level of Iranian dominance on the ground. The professional Russian military is unable to cope with the IRGC's "revolutionary" (i.e. often crappy) approach to battle often based on logistics draining swarming operations with barely trained militias. That it works at all is perhaps surprising. The other side having greater weaknesses is why.

 

[CrabbedOne]

On Jihadology New release from the Teḥrīk-ī-Ṭālibān Pākistān’s Muḥammad al-Khurāsānī: “Oh Aleppo, We Are Ashamed!”

Pakistani Taliban even more miffed about Aleppo than Sam Power.

Oddly though they seem to see the fall of East Aleppo as part of the Kuffar GWOT scheme to subjugate Muslims under the yolk of democracy. There's no mention of it being Putin's and Khamenei's doing and all that voting and elections business not really being a priority.

 

[CrabbedOne]

In The WSJ A Trump Strategy to End Syria’s Nightmare

...
Yet the fall of Aleppo has complicated the situation. Mr. Assad effectively controls the country’s big cities, and he is unlikely to relinquish this power voluntarily. There are two potential paths forward. First, the moderate opposition could be militarily strengthened and assisted to the point where battlefield dynamics shift, and some of the main cities again become contested. But Mr. Trump seems uninterested in such an approach.

A second option is to propose only limited security assistance to moderate groups while literally rebuilding some of the ravaged cities in new locations—the way China has created major metropolitan areas out of nothing—largely for Sunnis and Kurds. Mr. Assad and Russia would be enticed to support this approach with the prospect of an end to the war combined with reconstruction aid. The embattled president would keep the cities he now controls but could be persuaded not to seek to extend his rule further.
...

Chopping up Syria goes dead against current US policy. The Turks will only be happy with it if their zone of control extends over most of Rojava. There is no neat partition possible as the regime's urban strongholds often look out on a hostile rebel countryside. Aleppo isn't really secure while rebel Idlib growls at it's gates. Assad is rather clear that even his arrangement with the PKK permitting their autonomy is temporary. He's shown no sign of making such a deal with far weaker rebel formations.

Still his allies often look willing to settle for less. The idea of zones of control on Syria's borders may well appeal to Syria's neighbours. The Israelis grabbing a chunk of the Golan may even be enabled by what looks like a very Bibi friendly incoming Trump administration. I doubt if the sanctuary city idea works in practice as Syria's cities are where they are for a reason. Tower blocks with Trump T's all over Raqqa is sort of an amusing idea though and this is plainly aimed to appeal to man who sees the world in terms of real estate deals.

 

[CrabbedOne]

 

[CrabbedOne]

On AlJaz The unravelling of Syria's Eastern Ghouta

...
Analysts say that Damascus is planning to either remove or disarm rebel fighters in Eastern Ghouta, similar to a series of evacuation and truce deals in Daraya, Moadamiyat al-Sham, al-Waer and Khan Eshieh. The government is reportedly fielding talks in Douma and other neighbourhoods, but due to the sheer size of the area and its composition, the outcome remains uncertain.

According to the US-based monitoring group Siege Watch's last quarterly report, approximately 435,000 civilians live inside an ever-shrinking 100 square-kilometres of sprawling urban neighbourhoods, suburbs and farmland, while there are also an estimated 10,000 fighters inside Eastern Ghouta.

"People forget this, but both territorially and in terms of population, it's bigger than east Aleppo. [The rebels'] military arsenal is much bigger and more powerful than in eastern Aleppo as well," said analyst Aron Lund, a nonresident fellow at the Carnegie Endowment's Middle East programme. He noted that rebel groups have repeatedly hit the heart of Damascus with shells and mortars and downed Syrian aircraft with anti-aircraft weapons in the past.
...

Odd that Eastern Ghouta gets so little media attention.

 

[Casually Red]

What you're seeing in Aleppo is propaganda

It's not merely media . MSF and people like that are reliant on the very same shitebags the media are relying on , for the very same reasons .

Interesting to see the view now that both Fisk and Cocburn are shite , while the hysterical narrative being peddled by western mainstream media and their governments is apparently gold . Along with their atrocious sources . That's were these " leftists " are . Again .
They'll be at the very same knife in the back antics in Cuba / Venezuela next . Useful idiots .

 

[camouflage]

Ah yes that's right, it was Fisk they denounced woznit.

 

[teqniq]

 

[CrabbedOne]

On Background Briefing December 15 The Shia Crescent is Now a Reality

Then, with the fall of Aleppo to Russian, Iranian and Assad regime forces, we will look into the major geostrategic shift underway in the Middle East with what amounts to the so-called “Shia Crescent” becoming a reality with Iran, through its proxies, now effectively in control of Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. Nader Hashemi, The Director of the Center for Middle East Studies at the University of Denver and author of “The Syria Dilemma”, joins us to discuss how the folly of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney’s war in Iraq has rewarded Iran at the expense of Saudi Arabia and possibly in the near future, Israel.

In Part 2 of this podcast.

 

[CrabbedOne]

On TAC The Lessons of Aleppo

...
The lessons for Trump from the Aleppo disaster?

Do not even consider getting into a new Middle East war—unless Congress votes to authorize it, the American people are united behind it, vital U.S. interests are clearly imperiled, and we know how the war ends and when we can come home.

For wars have a habit of destroying presidencies.

Korea broke Truman. Vietnam broke Lyndon Johnson. Iraq broke the Republican Congress in 2006 and gave us Obama in 2008.

And the Iran war now being talked up in the think tanks and on the op-ed pages would be the end of the Trump presidency.

Before starting such a war, Donald Trump might call in Bob Gates and ask him what he meant at West Point in February 2011 when he told the cadets:

“Any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should ‘have his head examined,’ as General MacArthur so delicately put it.”

I suspect Pat Buchanan is going to find Trump and his Reset With Russia II really disappointing in this respect.

The relationship with Putin is going to end in tears at bedtime. Unlike Obama or Clinton an abused Trump will feel no need for Congressional support or allies and that makes him dangerous. His supporters will love him for it.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Casually Red]

Ah yes that's right, it was Fisk they denounced woznit.

Yup. Fisk . Fisk is shite , Bana gold . Don't forget that . The guy who interviewed Bin Laden ..twice..
reported from the front lines from Beiruit to Basra for decades . A crap source now . While Bana the bomb magnets pleas for a 3rd world war against the evil Assad in the inside pages of The Sun are absolute gold . That's were they're actually at now . These people aren't that fucking stupid, not all of them. Some of them have to be on a payroll to be this wilfully cynical .

 

[Casually Red]

On Jihadology New release from the Teḥrīk-ī-Ṭālibān Pākistān’s Muḥammad al-Khurāsānī: “Oh Aleppo, We Are Ashamed!”

Pakistani Taliban even more miffed about Aleppo than Sam Power.

Oddly though they seem to see the fall of East Aleppo as part of the Kuffar GWOT scheme to subjugate Muslims under the yolk of democracy. There's no mention of it being Putin's and Khamenei's doing and all that voting and elections business not really being a priority.

It's not odd in the slightest when you factor in the same people paying their wages are funding the war against Syria. And paying Al Jazeeras wages as well.

Just the other day an Al Jazeera journalist was calling for prayers for IS when they attacked Palmyra . A few months back the same journalist was expressing disappointment that a Russian woman killed aboard a helicopter shot down in Idlib hadn't been raped . While his news station has openly promoted genocide in Syria .

So no, not even a wee bit odd .

 

[camouflage]

Yup. Fisk . Fisk is shite , Bana gold . Don't forget that . The guy who interviewed Bin Laden ..twice..
reported from the front lines from Beiruit to Basra for decades . A crap source now . While Bana the bomb magnets pleas for a 3rd world war against the evil Assad in the inside pages of The Sun are absolute gold . That's were they're actually at now . These people aren't that fucking stupid, not all of them. Some of them have to be on a payroll to be this wilfully cynical .

I dunno, strategic influence does exist on the internet, we know that. But if you actually do see the situation in Syria and other places as they do then I don't know what could be said or shown to convince one otherwise. Conviction is conviction and intelligence becomes irrelevant, it's a human limitation really. It's said that intelligent people are easiest to pull into cults for example. How do you and I know (presuming we're intelligent people) that we're not the deluded cultists? A good rule of thumb might be to not find yourself on the same side of an argument as jihadists and fascists.

 

[teqniq]

Concerning the torched buses, the picture is a little clearer in this article:

Up in smoke: Unidentified assailants attack buses in Idlib, endangering Aleppo evacuation

..."The buses that came to transport the rawafid have been burned,” said the man filming one such video, using a derogatory term for Shia Muslims. “We will burn all those who come to move them.” In the video, people wearing civilian clothing gather near the burning buses as gunfire, likely celebratory, can be heard in the background.

Evacuation bus set ablaze in Idlib on Sunday. Photo courtesy of Subhi Sayyed Issa.

The buses were in Idlib to evacuate a first wave of 1,250 people from al-Fuaa and Kufraya to regime territory in Aleppo in exchange for the parallel evacuation of half the people currently left in opposition-held east Aleppo to rebel areas.

After the attack on the buses in Idlib, activists in east Aleppo reported that a convoy that left the besieged neighborhoods carrying civilians earlier on Sunday was turned back and Red Crescent teams withdrew. Syria Direct could not independently verify the reports....

 

[LDC]

FB post from Dilar Dirik on some of the left's reactions in recent days...

"Truth is always the first casualty of the war they say. How true, especially looking at propaganda coming from all sides, following the fall of Aleppo, which is yet another episode of the ordeal that the war in Syria has been for years now.

I am disgusted by the simplicity of positions, dogmatism of ideas, and in some cases complete lack of moral decency in the analyses and pseudo-analyses of what is going on in Aleppo and in Syria, actually, the Middle East, in general. Admittedly, the entire war has been full of propaganda, lies, and fabricated truths, but what some people without any connection to the region are shouting out from their pseudo-revolutionary armchairs is mind-blowingly grotesque and despicable. Some are creating imperialistic interventionist fantasies, some are openly congratulating the bloodthirsty Assad regime and deny its war crimes, some act like the rebels are an army of angels who deserve enthusiastic mindless support, some just say nevermind and abandon all hope for the millions of civilians affected by this war. I am not talking about the mainstream, but leftists here!

Too many immoral claims have been made, but at this particular time, it is especially violent to see how so many “enlightened”, “progressive” people vehemently *DENY* the blood bath caused by Assad and the Syrian army and portray him as a lesser evil as if they were the ones who lost entire families to this fascist dictator. Similarly, where were all of the people who stand up for Aleppo now, when rebels were using internationally banned weapons on civilians in the pre-dominantly Kurdish Sheikh Maqsoud district? These people either live in a fantasy world or they have no respect for humanity.

What if someone told us that IT IS POSSIBLE to have a goddamn complex, morally tenable, realistic view on things, by being an open-minded, honest, genuine, concerned, and active person, whose objective is not “being right”, but justice and freedom for this war-town country and by actually respecting the dynamic voices coming from Syria itself? You don’t need to have a perfectly flawless position, because that is simply not a realistic choice in this war, unless you decide to never get your hands dirty, lean back, and enjoy the bloodshed.

This means that you can actually be anti-Assad without being an apologist for other forms of fascism, state or non-state. You can be pro-revolution without pretending like all the rebels are innocent human rights defenders. You can understand that the initial revolutionary atmosphere was hijacked later on by jihadists, regional powers and international dynamics without falling for Assad’s narrative that a true opposition never existed. You can recognize that anti-imperialism means to be against all imperialists, not just your most hated one.

You can support Rojava without hating on the Syrian revolutionaries and denying their existence. You can support the truly democratic Syrian revolutionaries even if they don’t have a systematized project like in Rojava or enough women or radical leftist ideas in their structures. You can sympathize with Arab scepticism of Rojava while being mindful of the historic legacy of systematic racism and chauvinism against Kurds in Syria. You can support refugees without ignoring socio-economic dimensions and conditions that enable some to leave, but not others. You can advocate against war, intervention and arms trade and still recognize that self-defense and armed struggle for survival are undeniable realities – see Kobane. You can hate ISIS’s guts without being a racist or Islamophobe. You can fight Islamophobia without silencing Middle Eastern people, especially non-Muslims, who critical of or even struggling against Islam. And so and so on.

But the very worst thing you can be is a messed up, clueless, self-righteous online commentator, who is not organized anywhere and has nothing to lose when fabricating crap to incite even more divisions and hostilities! Down with your political analyses that are deprived of ethics and human decency! People like you are the reason this world is turning into hell on earth!

Freedom for Rojava – Freedom for the free, democratic, multi-cultural Syria!"

 

[Casually Red]

FB post from Dilar Dirik on some of the left's reactions in recent days...

"Truth is always the first casualty of the war they say. How true, especially looking at propaganda coming from all sides, following the fall of Aleppo, which is yet another episode of the ordeal that the war in Syria has been for years now.

I am disgusted by the simplicity of positions, dogmatism of ideas, and in some cases complete lack of moral decency in the analyses and pseudo-analyses of what is going on in Aleppo and in Syria, actually, the Middle East, in general. Admittedly, the entire war has been full of propaganda, lies, and fabricated truths, but what some people without any connection to the region are shouting out from their pseudo-revolutionary armchairs is mind-blowingly grotesque and despicable. Some are creating imperialistic interventionist fantasies, some are openly congratulating the bloodthirsty Assad regime and deny its war crimes, some act like the rebels are an army of angels who deserve enthusiastic mindless support, some just say nevermind and abandon all hope for the millions of civilians affected by this war. I am not talking about the mainstream, but leftists here!

Too many immoral claims have been made, but at this particular time, it is especially violent to see how so many “enlightened”, “progressive” people vehemently *DENY* the blood bath caused by Assad and the Syrian army and portray him as a lesser evil as if they were the ones who lost entire families to this fascist dictator. Similarly, where were all of the people who stand up for Aleppo now, when rebels were using internationally banned weapons on civilians in the pre-dominantly Kurdish Sheikh Maqsoud district? These people either live in a fantasy world or they have no respect for humanity.

What if someone told us that IT IS POSSIBLE to have a goddamn complex, morally tenable, realistic view on things, by being an open-minded, honest, genuine, concerned, and active person, whose objective is not “being right”, but justice and freedom for this war-town country and by actually respecting the dynamic voices coming from Syria itself? You don’t need to have a perfectly flawless position, because that is simply not a realistic choice in this war, unless you decide to never get your hands dirty, lean back, and enjoy the bloodshed.

This means that you can actually be anti-Assad without being an apologist for other forms of fascism, state or non-state. You can be pro-revolution without pretending like all the rebels are innocent human rights defenders. You can understand that the initial revolutionary atmosphere was hijacked later on by jihadists, regional powers and international dynamics without falling for Assad’s narrative that a true opposition never existed. You can recognize that anti-imperialism means to be against all imperialists, not just your most hated one.

You can support Rojava without hating on the Syrian revolutionaries and denying their existence. You can support the truly democratic Syrian revolutionaries even if they don’t have a systematized project like in Rojava or enough women or radical leftist ideas in their structures. You can sympathize with Arab scepticism of Rojava while being mindful of the historic legacy of systematic racism and chauvinism against Kurds in Syria. You can support refugees without ignoring socio-economic dimensions and conditions that enable some to leave, but not others. You can advocate against war, intervention and arms trade and still recognize that self-defense and armed struggle for survival are undeniable realities – see Kobane. You can hate ISIS’s guts without being a racist or Islamophobe. You can fight Islamophobia without silencing Middle Eastern people, especially non-Muslims, who critical of or even struggling against Islam. And so and so on.

But the very worst thing you can be is a messed up, clueless, self-righteous online commentator, who is not organized anywhere and has nothing to lose when fabricating crap to incite even more divisions and hostilities! Down with your political analyses that are deprived of ethics and human decency! People like you are the reason this world is turning into hell on earth!

Freedom for Rojava – Freedom for the free, democratic, multi-cultural Syria!"

This is more of the same inane cynical horseshit . The foreign backed rebels have not just been shelling the Sheikh Maqsoud enclave . Theyve been repeatedly indiscriminately shelling the vast majority of Allepo itself . The residential districts were the vast majority of Allepans actually live . Over one a half million of them under daily bombardment from these saudi and CIA sponsored contra lunatics . Because they're pro government and non kurdish they simply don't exist for cretins like the above .

Bono or Geldof could have written that rubbish . From the very same armchair she's giving out about others sitting in . " hijacking a revolutionary atmosphere " . Utter bollocks .

Maybe you should ask Ms Dirik why she can't even bring herself to mention the existence of these people and what her " revolution " is doing to them on a daily basis . Much less admit they're the ones being targeted every day in their schools, hospitals and home. So much for standing up for them .



And it's not just Aleppo . It's happening all over Syria to these unworthy non revolutionary ingrates who want these fuckwits off their long suffering backs .

 

[Casually Red]

I dunno, strategic influence does exist on the internet, we know that. But if you actually do see the situation in Syria and other places as they do then I don't know what could be said or shown to convince one otherwise. Conviction is conviction and intelligence becomes irrelevant, it's a human limitation really. It's said that intelligent people are easiest to pull into cults for example. How do you and I know (presuming we're intelligent people) that we're not the deluded cultists? A good rule of thumb might be to not find yourself on the same side of an argument as jihadists and fascists.

And the CIA , MI5 , BND , and the entire western political leadership and their pet media . The Sun..Murdoch..the whole fecking lot of them . The gangs all here . Well and truly . And it's not merely being on the same side . It's trashing and smearing literally anyone who isn't ...even poor Fisky . While performing contortions trying to persuade us the London tabloids aren't actively promoting spoof sources to support the warped narrative .

 

[camouflage]

And the CIA , MI5 , BND , and the entire western political leadership and their pet media . The Sun..Murdoch..the whole fecking lot of them . The gangs all here . Well and truly .

Yup, who wants to be just another brick in the same old edifice. I'm all for political opposition and reform movements, but the forces that started the war (that start any war) I'm not with them, this Syria thing was turned into a war in the same way we've seen elsewhere. The war-starters aren't interested in social or political reform, they're interested in holy struggles and 'creative destruction'. Why are some people pretending that the Western imperialism factor of all this doesn't exist, like it's a myth, like the CIA an that are just obscure think-tanks that provide reports on foreign affairs and undemocratic governments from afar and have nothing to do with snipers or bombs or militant training programs? Why are some people pretending that the objective of "causing the regime to over-react" since 2006 is hardly worth mentioning?

 

[Casually Red]

And nobody " hijacked a revolution " . The " revolutionaries " were openly appealing for the jihadis to come and help them right from the outset , boasting there were millions who'd come to Syria to fight their revolution . They called for the likes of IS to come to Syria and welcomed them with open arms . they immediately ..at the very beginning...ran to Erdogan , the Saudis , the Qataris and the western states for sponsorship. Diriks telling us this isn't an imperialist intervention despite the imperialists very openly lining up behind it from the very beginning . And financing and arming the contras from the very beginning to the tune of billions . she calls imperialist intervention " a fantasy " despite the jihadists positively bristling with TOW missiles and the US openly directing armed factions on the ground . There's US special forces actually embedded with her preferred faction, the Kurds . And yet she tells us imperialist intervention is a fantasy .
She's telling us to ignore all that, ignore the actual realities of who's done what, who does what and who supports and promotes it and to concentrate on a few mindless slogans instead .

It's the role of a propagandist at the end of the day but it should not be the role of leftists to be utterly blind to the glaring contradictions within her propaganda .

 

[Casually Red]

Yup, who wants to be just another brick in the same old edifice. I'm all for political opposition and reform movements, but the forces that started the war (that start any war) I'm not with them, this Syria thing was turned into a war in the same way we've seen elsewhere. The war-starters aren't interested in social or political reform, they're interested in holy struggles and 'creative destruction'. Why are some people pretending that the Western imperialism factor of all this doesn't exist, like it's a myth, like the CIA an that are just obscure think-tanks that provide reports on foreign affairs and undemocratic governments from afar and have nothing to do with snipers or bombs or militant training programs? Why are some people pretending that the objective of "causing the regime to over-react" since 2006 is hardly worth mentioning?

For some it's because they're gullible and stupid, some because they're embittered opportunists looking for a bandwagon to attach their lifetime of irrelevant failure to. And for some because they're paid .

 

[Casually Red]

Yup, who wants to be just another brick in the same old edifice. I'm all for political opposition and reform movements, but the forces that started the war (that start any war) I'm not with them, this Syria thing was turned into a war in the same way we've seen elsewhere. The war-starters aren't interested in social or political reform, they're interested in holy struggles and 'creative destruction'. Why are some people pretending that the Western imperialism factor of all this doesn't exist, like it's a myth, like the CIA an that are just obscure think-tanks that provide reports on foreign affairs and undemocratic governments from afar and have nothing to do with snipers or bombs or militant training programs? Why are some people pretending that the objective of "causing the regime to over-react" since 2006 is hardly worth mentioning?

They cheered on Libyas destruction too . Told us the very same lies. Argued shrilly it was a genuine revolution , to ignore the fact it was backed by western imperialism and rotten to the core with jihadi head hackers . The very same bullshit .
And then there was Maidan ..ignore McCain, Nuland and co..ignore the western backing , the woefully cynical media coverage....it's a revolooshun !!
And they're just slavering at the mouth for the opportunity to support the same shit in Cuba some day. Gagging for it . Parasites on the backs of imperialism .

 

[camouflage]

And nobody " hijacked a revolution " . The " revolutionaries " were openly appealing for the jihadis to come and help them right from the outset , boasting there were millions who'd come to Syria to fight their revolution . They called for the likes of IS to come to Syria and welcomed them with open arms . they immediately ..at the very beginning...ran to Erdogan , the Saudis , the Qataris and the western states for sponsorship.

I wasn't aware of that, my understanding thus far has been that there was a protest movement sparked partly by neoliberal reforms and by rises in the cost of living like food prices in the wake of the global credit crunch and inspired by events nearby, that was then militarised (snipers and bombs) by the "jackals" in place since at least 2006 (to use John Perkin's term, no offence to actual jackals) who sniffed an opportunity re their plan of taking down seven MENA countries in five years iirc. Do you have more information on what you've said above?

 

[Casually Red]

I wasn't aware of that, my understanding thus far has been that there was a protest movement sparked partly by neoliberal reforms and by rises in the cost of living like food prices in the wake of the global credit crunch and inspired by events nearby, that was then militarised (snipers and bombs) by the "jackals" in place since at least 2006 (to use John Perkin's term, no offence to actual jackals) who sniffed an opportunity re their plan of taking down seven MENA countries in five years iirc. Do you have more information on what you've said above?

I posted the videos of them doing just that before . I'll look them up and post them again. It also needs to be rembered the initial protests were also Islamic in nature . Assads initial concessions to the protestors included a relaxation of strictly enforced secularism in universities, govt departments etc, the closure of the Damascus city casino and the release of what the west likes to call " political prisoners " . Many of whom were hard line Islamists . The " revolutionaries " nowadays try and lay the blame for their poor pr profile at Assads door and blame him for doing as they demanded pretty much .