Amanda Knox Is Innocent

[ViolentPanda]

I just did read them. Most of what is out there is the judge's interpretation/ speculation of the autopsy finding

also, again, is she the first rape/ murder victim to be restrained by just one person?

You can single-handedly physically assault and murder a person quite easily. Restraining them while you rape and murder them is much more problematic, unless they're prone. Ms. Kercher wasn't prone when she was restrained and stabbed/slashed.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Mr. Solecito's computer does indeed prove that an .avi of Amelie was played on it that evening. That's all it proves - that the film played. Frankly, Mr. Solecito did himself no favours claiming to have spent time in his computer later that night, though, as neither his hard drive or his ISP supported those claims.
IMO it's these prickly little details that make people doubt the veracity of the narratives of the defendants. You have to expect some inconsistency in any narrative - human memory isn't like a recorder, it's context-based - but misremembering that you've used your computer for 2 hours subsequent to watching a film is a bit of a "rum" error. What we usually misremember is stuff where we experience heightened emotion as the event plays out, not something as quotidian as computer use.
Unless he was totally of his bonce on something or other.

your version of the computer stuff is what I have read too. And it did make me go hmm, back when I was trying to make up my mind about the case, but I suppose you're going to say you were doing something when police are interrogating you about a murder case, even if you don't remember doing anything in particular. I'd imagine it's pretty nerve-wracking

 

[ViolentPanda]

i havent read the thread or watched the news, dont even know what she's meant to have done - but does urban think she's innocent or guilty?

I honestly don't know, and I'm happy to admit that.
I also think that people who profess to know whether Ms. Knox and her former boyfriend are guilty or innocent are full of the proverbial. You can't "know", the best you can do is inspect the evidence, analyse it in as value-free a manner as possible, and then see where the analysis leads.

 

[Miss Caphat]

You can single-handedly physically assault and murder a person quite easily. Restraining them while you rape and murder them is much more problematic, unless they're prone. Ms. Kercher wasn't prone when she was restrained and stabbed/slashed.

ok, but the forced rape thing was never really proven. she may well have had consensual sex with him, and let's not forget women don't always fight back while being raped for many reasons I won't go into here. he may have killed her so she wouldn't talk, or because he was going to rob her, or both.

 

[ViolentPanda]

your version of the computer stuff is what I have read too. And it did make me go hmm, back when I was trying to make up my mind about the case, but I suppose you're going to say you were doing something when police are interrogating you about a murder case, even if you don't remember doing anything in particular. I'd imagine it's pretty nerve-wracking

What makes me go "hmm" is supposition like "I suppose you're going to say something..."
One of the most often-found phrases* in verbatim statements taken by police is...you guessed it..."I don't remember". People tend to default to "I don't remember", rather than constructing something, not least because we tend to instinctively know that a non-memory is "safer" than a constructed one.

*I've read way too many case studies relating to the role of memory in criminal cases.

 

[Miss Caphat]

arr, I gotta go again. but I appreciate the well-reasoned debate tonight g'night!

 

[Maurice Picarda]

My wife expects me to have an opinion on this, but it's impossible to care whether the American woman murdered the English one or not. So I'll take whatever view someone gives me as a reply. Guilty or not guilty?

 

[ViolentPanda]

ok, but the forced rape thing was never really proven. she may well have had consensual sex with him, and let's not forget women don't always fight back while being raped for many reasons I won't go into here. he may have killed her so she wouldn't talk, or because he was going to rob her, or both.

My problem with the sexual assault evidence (the genital bruising) is that it was done so close to the time that she was stabbed, that it's impossible to tell whether it was immediately pre or post-mortem, and that the bruising wasn't necessarily consistent with penile insertion, but with something smaller and less spongy, possibly a finger.

 

[Sirena]

My wife expects me to have an opinion on this, but it's impossible to care whether the American woman murdered the English one or not. So I'll take whatever view someone gives me as a reply. Guilty or not guilty?

Implicated.

 

[Greebo]

My wife expects me to have an opinion on this, but it's impossible to care whether the American woman murdered the English one or not. So I'll take whatever view someone gives me as a reply. Guilty or not guilty?

Toss a coin.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

My wife expects me to have an opinion on this, but it's impossible to care whether the American woman murdered the English one or not. So I'll take whatever view someone gives me as a reply. Guilty or not guilty?

"Be just. And if you can't be just, be arbitrary."

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Implicated.

I was hoping for something a little more forthright but I'll take that.

 

[Fez909]

My wife expects me to have an opinion on this, but it's impossible to care whether the American woman murdered the English one or not. So I'll take whatever view someone gives me as a reply. Guilty or not guilty?

nice one

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I was hoping for something a little more forthright but I'll take that.

You've got to really care about this position now.

 

[Greebo]

I was hoping for something a little more forthright but I'll take that.

Okay then: Toss a fucking coin - am I supposed to do your thinking for you?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

You've got to really care about this position now.

The evidence is very clear that she was implicated. There was obviously some degree of aiding or abetting and it would be cowardly and worse, racist, for the Sepps to deny Italian justice. Extradite her!

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Okay then: Toss a fucking coin - am I supposed to do your thinking for you?

Sirena was first, and Knox was implicated. No coin.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The evidence is very clear that she was implicated. There was obviously some degree of aiding or abetting and it would be cowardly and worse, racist, for the Sepps to deny Italian justice.

Good. You're warming to it. Excellent use of racism, too.

You do realise that you've just turned into the Dice Man.

 

[Miss Caphat]

What makes me go "hmm" is supposition like "I suppose you're going to say something..."
One of the most often-found phrases* in verbatim statements taken by police is...you guessed it..."I don't remember". People tend to default to "I don't remember", rather than constructing something, not least because we tend to instinctively know that a non-memory is "safer" than a constructed one.

*I've read way too many case studies relating to the role of memory in criminal cases.

I understand that. But I guess what I'm saying is, think about being this young guy, and for the sake of argument, you know that all you did that night was stare out your bedroom window looking at the stars. You also know that this massive case is being built against you, and you're panicked, knowing that there's no way to prove all you were doing is staring out the window all night.
Because staring out the window is almost a non-activity. So you make up something, anything, just to make it sound like you were doing something other than committing a crime, not thinking about the fact that they it's probably better to say you were just doing nothing whatsoever. Even though doing nothing, whatsoever leaves a lot of room for speculation. When in fact, most of us do have periods of time where we don't do much of anything at all.

 

[Pickman's model]

He was stumped after the BBC got Nation Shall Speak Unto Nation.

you're taking the peace

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The UK does. .

She's not in the UK.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Does anyone get found not guilty in the US?

 

[stowpirate]

The evidence is very clear that she was implicated. There was obviously some degree of aiding or abetting and it would be cowardly and worse, racist, for the Sepps to deny Italian justice. Extradite her!

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-couldnt-hearing-court-found-guilty/story?id=22305482

I get a feeling this is all about money and being an attractive young American girl? If I was innocent I would not be flirting with ABC, Fox... I would be in Italy pleading my case and not hiding behind nouveau rich apron strings ?

 

[Combustible]

I get a feeling this is all about money and being an attractive young American girl? If I was innocent I would not be flirting with ABC, Fox... I would be in Italy pleading my case and not hiding behind nouveau rich apron strings ?

If you were innocent you would have returned to a foreign country who have already locked you up wrongly once and are now considering doing so again rather than staying in your home country with your family and where you still have a chance of avoiding imprisonment? I am glad you would be such a noble soul and throw yourself at the mercy of the justice system and face being sent to prison for the rest of your life but it would be an absolutely fucking stupid decision.

It might be true that she has more chance of avoiding extradition because she is a white attractive woman from a family with money. But a miscarriage of justice is a miscarriage of justice and you don't solve racial bias in the legal system by demanding equal miscarriages for all.

 

[existentialist]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-couldnt-hearing-court-found-guilty/story?id=22305482

I get a feeling this is all about money and being an attractive young American girl? If I was innocent I would not be flirting with ABC, Fox... I would be in Italy pleading my case and not hiding behind nouveau rich apron strings ?

But, you see, that's just more hypothesising. For a start, you're not her. And, secondly, can you honestly say how you might behave if you were in her shoes?

I know for a fact that, if the police knocked at my door today and told me I was up on a charge of murder, I'd have no clue how I might respond, either in the immediate moment, or later on. I just don't think we can look at someone else's behaviour and say "ooer, that's not normal, I wouldn't do it like that...she must be guilty."

I know one thing for sure, though - if I was in a country where the justice system had operated the way it has during this trial, and I had an opportunity to leave that country, I bloody well wouldn't be going back, guilty or innocent. That might not be the noble way, nor might it be an admirable way of demonstrating my innocence, but I wouldn't be putting my faith in a justice system like that to prove my innocence, so I'd be staying put.

And if that meant that people would choose to infer my guilt on such a sketchy basis, well, good luck to them.

 

[maya]

I get a feeling this is all about money and being an attractive young American girl? If I was innocent I would not be flirting with ABC, Fox... I would be in Italy pleading my case and not hiding behind nouveau rich apron strings ?

I have no idea of whether she 'did it' or not, but I saw a long interview with the gal a few years on Oprah(!) or somewhere about the situation, and I immediately reacted to a few things: She came across as extremely self-assured, focused, logical and cold, speaking very intently of how she'd been done wrong but there seemed to be no remorse or humility re: the victim or the family of the victim... It would seem logical that someone totally innocent would be sad for the victim's family and reflect a few seconds before speaking on TV how their own behaviour will affect the family? But she was all almost aggressively "here I come"- Why keep such a high media profile if you care about the bereaved? I know this sounds extremely judgemental but she definitely gave me the chills... Fortunately I'm not allowed to judge! A conviction should look solely to the evidence, not personal opinions. Unfortunately we'll probably never know the truth about whether she really were implicated to some extent in this affair, since the italian police messed up from day one by being incompetent and corrupt and if they'd behaved to protocol back then perhaps the family would've had some answers rather than endless mess-ups and extended media farce. Just tragic and worrying how this situation seems to have played out (the original prosecutor waffling on about satanic sex cults and witchy seductresses, echoing catholic misogynist hang-ups... they should've considered securing actual evidence from the start instead of making up wild fairytales).

 

[Ranbay]

yeah and she did a cartwheel so she defo did it like.

 

[maya]

yeah and she did a cartwheel so she defo did it like.

I was trying to show how easy it is to form an opinion from emotions without remembering that the only thing that counts is actual evidence... the whole media thing makes people think they can sit in their own armchair and judge.

 

[stowpirate]

I am glad you would be such a noble soul and throw yourself at the mercy of the justice system and face being sent to prison for the rest of your life but it would be an absolutely fucking stupid decision.

It is not as if it is third world fascist dictatorship? At some point she is going to be extradited unless she can prove she is innocent? Or is the US going to alienate/ignore international extradition agreements?

It might be true that she has more chance of avoiding extradition because she is a white attractive woman from a family with money. But a miscarriage of justice is a miscarriage of justice and you don't solve racial bias in the legal system by demanding equal miscarriages for all.

We don't know if this is a miscarriage of justice or if we will ever know the truth? Annoys me that a local carpet murder never made the national headlines because those involved was not deemed news worthy.

 

[stowpirate]

I was trying to show how easy it is to form an opinion from emotions without remembering that the only thing that counts is actual evidence... the whole media thing makes people think they can sit in their own armchair and judge.

Hasn't the media outside of Italy and especially in the US already made some form of judgement? I got the distinct feeling the bias is that she is innocent?